261 réponses à ce sujet

[NM_Che56]

Riion wrote...

It has absolutely no basis in the internal science of the ME universe, nor the external science of our world. It truly is "space magic". Is it a bad ending in and of itself? Not really, in a fantasy setting, it had potential to be an okay resolution. But here, it is completely out of place. 

The Lazarus project has as much basis in internal medicine as sea monkeys.

[azereus2]

Fruit of the Doom wrote...


Actually, I think I thought of an alternate explanation to Space Magic...

Enchantment?!


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!x200000000000

[Laurencio]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Master Che wrote...

And you can grow an ear on the back of a mouse.  What's your point?

If I can buy Shepard being reconstituted from space paste into a fully functioning man and if the geth can help quarian immune systems via computer networks, then how is synthesis any more nonsensical?

Extrapolation of technology vs. sucking it out of your thumb.

Using a computerized, enviromental suit with medical capabilities built into it to stimulate an imune system via vaccination methods or throwing yourself into an energy beam and which then somehow sees your combination of organic part and implants as one singular DNA which it throws out across the Milky Way. 
Yeah the former is equally non-sensical to latter... Oh wait!

Machine reads structure of molycules and atoms, stores the information, combines it with existing information of synthetics (reapers I imagine) and use some sort of radiation, signal, nanites, whatever you want to call it, to rewrite key atoms of synthetics and organics into this new base form.

[yuncas]

Complistic wrote...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...


Actually, I think I thought of an alternate explanation to Space Magic...

It has long been speculated Mass Effect is entirely in the mind of sandal.

Mystery Solved!!

[Laurencio]

Riion wrote...

Laurencio wrote...

Riion wrote...

Meh, like I said, there are still current initiatives to resuscitate dead cells, it's not very hard to believe that in almost two centuries, this technology would have matured enough to be applicable on a larger scale. And resurrecting the cells/growing new ones make up most of the problem, recreation of skeleton could easily be attributed to a mechanical model or something similar.

Yet a machine that was created by a far more advanced civilzations cycles ago, the ones who probably created the reapers, could not have a sufficent level of technology to rewrite organics and synthetics on an atomic or molecular level?

And they still rely on reaping... why?

Because that is their purpose. They are designed with an over arching purpose, and that is to reap organic civilizations who are or will be capable of constructing sentient or at least intelligent synthetic life. If you take that away from them, they are nothing, they are redundant, they have no purpose. It would be against their core purpose to do that.

Modifié par Laurencio, 09 avril 2012 - 05:21 .

[NM_Che56]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Master Che wrote...

And you can grow an ear on the back of a mouse.  What's your point?

If I can buy Shepard being reconstituted from space paste into a fully functioning man and if the geth can help quarian immune systems via computer networks, then how is synthesis any more nonsensical?

Extrapolation of technology vs. sucking it out of your thumb.

Using a computerized, enviromental suit with medical capabilities built into it to stimulate an imune system via vaccination methods or throwing yourself into an energy beam and which then somehow sees your combination of organic part and implants as one singular DNA which it throws out across the Milky Way. 
Yeah the former is equally non-sensical to latter... Oh wait!

So there's no such thing as genetic modification?  How does that get extrapolated into a beam of light? Well, if radiation can affect your DNA and you can't see it...and if said beams of light contained little nanobots (nanoscience exists, btw), something not foreign to the ME world, then...

[Riion]

Master Che wrote...

Riion wrote...

It has absolutely no basis in the internal science of the ME universe, nor the external science of our world. It truly is "space magic". Is it a bad ending in and of itself? Not really, in a fantasy setting, it had potential to be an okay resolution. But here, it is completely out of place. 

The Lazarus project has as much basis in internal medicine as sea monkeys.

You have obviously never owned Sea Monkeys. 

Laurencio wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Master Che wrote...

And you can grow an ear on the back of a mouse.  What's your point?

If I can buy Shepard being reconstituted from space paste into a fully functioning man and if the geth can help quarian immune systems via computer networks, then how is synthesis any more nonsensical?

Extrapolation of technology vs. sucking it out of your thumb.

Using a computerized, enviromental suit with medical capabilities built into it to stimulate an imune system via vaccination methods or throwing yourself into an energy beam and which then somehow sees your combination of organic part and implants as one singular DNA which it throws out across the Milky Way. 
Yeah the former is equally non-sensical to latter... Oh wait!

Machine reads structure of molycules and atoms, stores the information, combines it with existing information of synthetics (reapers I imagine) and use some sort of radiation, signal, nanites, whatever you want to call it, to rewrite key atoms of synthetics and organics into this new base form.

 

That would be like mixing two different, non convertible data types in a programming language that has no precedent for it. CAN you do it? Sure, but at a certain point, you're just pulling ideas out of nowhere. Just doesn't make sense.

[j78]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Space magic?

LOL

[FellishBeast]

 

[Riion]

Laurencio wrote...

Riion wrote...

Laurencio wrote...

Riion wrote...

Meh, like I said, there are still current initiatives to resuscitate dead cells, it's not very hard to believe that in almost two centuries, this technology would have matured enough to be applicable on a larger scale. And resurrecting the cells/growing new ones make up most of the problem, recreation of skeleton could easily be attributed to a mechanical model or something similar.

Yet a machine that was created by a far more advanced civilzations cycles ago, the ones who probably created the reapers, could not have a sufficent level of technology to rewrite organics and synthetics on an atomic or molecular level?

And they still rely on reaping... why?

Because that is their purpose. They are designed with an over arching purpose, and that is to reap organic civilizations who are or will be capable of constructing sentient or at least intelligent synthetic life. If you take that away from them, they are nothing, they are redundant, they have no purpose. It would be against their core purpose to do that.

You know what, since they can uplift species, why not... downshift species as well? Because it goes against the context of the story. 

[NM_Che56]

I suppose this is just the space magic equivalent of making a coin vanish behind my ear?

http://www.popularme...origami-7383319


 

[Riion]

Master Che wrote...

I suppose this is just the space magic equivalent of making a coin vanish behind my ear?

http://www.popularme...origami-7383319


 

"Let’s go back to biology-class basics. DNA is made up of four bases: adenine, thymine, guanine, and cytosine (A, T, C, and G) that bond in pairs. A connects to T; C connects to G." 

[NM_Che56]

Riion wrote...

Master Che wrote...

I suppose this is just the space magic equivalent of making a coin vanish behind my ear?

http://www.popularme...origami-7383319


 

"Let’s go back to biology-class basics. DNA is made up of four bases: adenine, thymine, guanine, and cytosine (A, T, C, and G) that bond in pairs. A connects to T; C connects to G." 

...and your point?

things cannot be genetically altered? Nano science cannot be a means to do it?

[The Anti-Saint]

Veggiesofmanycolors wrote...

What is it that causes this?  I don't get it.

If you believe in magic, don't bother to choose, If it's jug band music or rhythm and blues...oops..

[Cadeym]

Scientists have proven again and again that organic beings spontaneously grow circuits immediatly after being exposed to large quantities of green light.

WARNING: Plants contain chlorophyll which reflects green light. Since green light is highly dangerous to organic beings, it is recommended to wear biohazard suits for ALL outdoors activity during the summer.

[Riion]

Master Che wrote...

Riion wrote...

Master Che wrote...

I suppose this is just the space magic equivalent of making a coin vanish behind my ear?

http://www.popularme...origami-7383319


 

"Let’s go back to biology-class basics. DNA is made up of four bases: adenine, thymine, guanine, and cytosine (A, T, C, and G) that bond in pairs. A connects to T; C connects to G." 

...and your point?

things cannot be genetically altered? Nano science cannot be a means to do it?

I would like to see you genetically alter your computer. 

[Laurencio]

Riion wrote...
You know what, since they can uplift species, why not... downshift species as well? Because it goes against the context of the story. 

That and because it wouldn't make sense to prevent a species from ever becoming "reapable".  If they downshift a species they are essentially ending the cycle, which wouldn't make sense as that is their only purpose.

Riion wrote...
That would be like mixing two different, non convertible data types in a programming language that has no precedent for it. CAN you do it? Sure, but at a certain point, you're just pulling ideas out of nowhere. Just doesn't make sense.

Atoms are the same regardless of what species you look at. A water molecule is always a water molecule, it has the exact same atomic structure as if it was drawn from an astroid or from your neigbhours pond. Which means that if you can read the atomic structure of both organics and synthetics you would be able to use the data collected to create a new "species" by replacing certain atomic structures in both organics and synthetics.

To continue your analogy. You aren't looking at two different languages, rather you are looking at the exact same language, but mixing two programs, open source programs, together to create a new one. If you can read, write and change atoms anything is possible.

[Riion]

Laurencio wrote...

Riion wrote...
You know what, since they can uplift species, why not... downshift species as well? Because it goes against the context of the story. 

That and because it wouldn't make sense to prevent a species from ever becoming "reapable".  If they downshift a species they are essentially ending the cycle, which wouldn't make sense as that is their only purpose.

Riion wrote...
That would be like mixing two different, non convertible data types in a programming language that has no precedent for it. CAN you do it? Sure, but at a certain point, you're just pulling ideas out of nowhere. Just doesn't make sense.

Atoms are the same regardless of what species you look at. A water molecule is always a water molecule, it has the exact same atomic structure as if it was drawn from an astroid or from your neigbhours pond. Which means that if you can read the atomic structure of both organics and synthetics you would be able to use the data collected to create a new "species" by replacing certain atomic structures in both organics and synthetics.

To continue your analogy. You aren't looking at two different languages, rather you are looking at the exact same language, but mixing two programs, open source programs, together to create a new one. If you can read, write and change atoms anything is possible.

Perhaps more like the difference between Machine Code and DNA; binary and quadrenary(?), then. And there's a certain point when you can just say anything is possible. Sure, but for me (and I'm sure for many others), that completely ruins the atmosphere of the situation. (I never liked Q in Star Trek...)

Anyways, this is almost as pointless as arguing about God now. Not sure if Master Che was trolling or... but Laurencio had some interesting points (which I disagree with, but c'est la vie). 

[viceywicey]

The truth is. If you don't eat your veggies, you become a robot.

[rpgfan321]

Eh. Who knows. Don't try to think about it too much. It's not like you are going to write a dissertation on ME3's plot or anything.

[Mriswith911]

Riion wrote...

Master Che wrote...

Riion wrote...

Master Che wrote...

I suppose this is just the space magic equivalent of making a coin vanish behind my ear?

http://www.popularme...origami-7383319


 

"Let’s go back to biology-class basics. DNA is made up of four bases: adenine, thymine, guanine, and cytosine (A, T, C, and G) that bond in pairs. A connects to T; C connects to G." 

...and your point?

things cannot be genetically altered? Nano science cannot be a means to do it?

I would like to see you genetically alter your computer. 

He knows you can't.  He's just being argumentative to be argumentative.

Like someone stated before.  If you set up certain mechanics for your story then you can play within those mechanics.  In ME we have element zero which does special things regarding mass.  This is why all biotic abilities have something to do with altering mass.  Synthesis is equivalent to saying that element zero can suddenly alter life in addition to doing what it has done for the past three games.  There's no precedence for it, there's nothing to explain why it happens and the end result is nothing to do with what we've seen throughout the series.  Sure you can come up with pseudo-explanations of how it occurs or reason that it makes just as much sense as anything else in the series, but the fact is that BioWare never set up this possibility and did absolutely nothing to explain what it did or how it happened.

Think of it this way.  The ME3 ending is Luke confronting the Emperor.  You can choose to replace your father and become like him (control) or reject the emperor's offer and take your own chances (destroy).  But wait!  A sudden, third choice is Luke can jump down the air shaft, sacrificing himself to summon a green force cloud and now  everyone in the galaxy is part of the "Grey Side" with both light and dark sides of the force combined into a single force.  That's the ME3 synthesis ending.  There was never any indication that the force can be used like this but it just can be darn it because we needed to round everything out with a middle-of-the-road ending.

Also, to spell out other people's points more.  They're stating that if some ancient species that created the Reapers and the Citadel also had the ability to force all life in the galaxy to be part organic, part synthetic thus solving the quandry of organics being wiped out by synthetics then why didn't they just do that eons ago instead of slaughtering untold numbers of civilizations?  The problem could've been solved before it ever began but wasn't for no particular reason hence the "Yo dawg, I heard you didn't want to be killed by synthetics" meme.

[Thornne]

Yes, Veggies, I do feel sorry for the beam of light.

[Poison_Berrie]

Master Che wrote...

So there's no such thing as genetic modification?  How does that get extrapolated into a beam of light? Well, if radiation can affect your DNA and you can't see it...and if said beams of light contained little nanobots (nanoscience exists, btw), something not foreign to the ME world, then...

Radiation affects your DNA... to cause cancer and organ failure. Radiation based changes to the genetic structure are often harmfull (with the right dosage) and never beneficial. 

As for nanobots, well if they are mass objects, they are apparently travelling at lethal speeds. 
But wait you have the answer for that, because these nanobots are created out of light particles/waves. We've turned these waves/particles into a unified structure atomic structure that can interact and manipulate on the required level as if it were made of matter.

That's as abysmall as the Invisible War Denton and Templar endings, but atleast they had a games-worth of phylosphical ideologies backed behind them.

[Fruit of the Doom]

Mriswith911 wrote...

Think of it this way.  The ME3 ending is Luke confronting the Emperor.  You can choose to replace your father and become like him (control) or reject the emperor's offer and take your own chances (destroy).  But wait!  A sudden, third choice is Luke can jump down the air shaft, sacrificing himself to summon a green force cloud and now  everyone in the galaxy is part of the "Grey Side" with both light and dark sides of the force combined into a single force.  That's the ME3 synthesis ending.  There was never any indication that the force can be used like this but it just can be darn it because we needed to round everything out with a middle-of-the-road ending.

EDIT: 

(wrong link initially)

Modifié par Fruit of the Doom, 09 avril 2012 - 06:00 .

[Esker02]

Master Che wrote...

So there's no such thing as genetic modification?  How does that get extrapolated into a beam of light? Well, if radiation can affect your DNA and you can't see it...and if said beams of light contained little nanobots (nanoscience exists, btw), something not foreign to the ME world, then...

The fact that you're trying to inject an explanation for Synthesis proves you do understand the problem of it having no explanation. There's a difference between sci-fi and fantasy. One attempts to give you an explanation founded in some quasi-scientific (albeit fictional) fashion. Historically, sci-fi has actually served as a foreshadowing for future actual technology because of its commitment to find a rational basis from which to explain the possibility of what it is presenting to you.

On the other hand, fantasy gives no explanation nor do you expect one. It is inherently non-scientific, and it never pretends to be anything other than "magic," beyond or otherwise not requiring an explanation of how it works. The theory behind the Crucible was that it was a behemoth of technology that seemed to be, unavoidably, above the contemporary understanding for those working to construct it. That was already dangerously close to shedding the constraints of sci-fi and moving into fantasy. Synthesis pushed it over the edge with its clearly outlandish consequences.

It was a transgression of pushing the genre from sci-fi into fantasy. The same transgression has happened in reverse (midi-chlorians). It's a legitimate problem and a valid complaint because of the genre, stop pretending to not understand the issue.

Modifié par Esker02, 09 avril 2012 - 06:11 .