275 réponses à ce sujet

[the_one_54321]

Wynne's spirit is there only to help her and keep her alive. Ander's spirit has a motive of its own.

[Realmzmaster]

hhh89 wrote...

He may be trapped in Wynne's body, but they aren't fused togheter. If she dies, it'll probably go back in the Fade, while Justice will probably die.  You should consider that Anders-Justice's situation is close, to a demonic possession, while Wynne's situation with her spirit is what Justice had planned for Anders, if Ander's anger haven't corrupted Justice.

Anders says the same thing about Justice if you kill him in the end. He states that his death may free Justice to return to the Fade.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 09 avril 2012 - 09:17 .

[esper]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Wynne's spirit is there only to help her and keep her alive. Ander's spirit has a motive of its own.

Wanting to keep somebody alive is pretty much a motive of its own.

[the_one_54321]

esper wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
Wynne's spirit is there only to help her and keep her alive. Ander's spirit has a motive of its own.

Wanting to keep somebody alive is pretty much a motive of its own.

Wynne's spirit does not direct her to do anything or fulfill any purpose. She makes her own decisions. She's not an abomination. Anders is compelled to seek Justice's ends. He is an abominaion.

Alternate version;
Wynne is win and Anders is looney toons! 

Modifié par the_one_54321, 09 avril 2012 - 09:22 .

[The Elder King]

Realmzmaster wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

He may be trapped in Wynne's body, but they aren't fused togheter. If she dies, it'll probably go back in the Fade, while Justice will probably die.  You should consider that Anders-Justice's situation is close, to a demonic possession, while Wynne's situation with her spirit is what Justice had planned for Anders, if Ander's anger haven't corrupted Justice.

Anders says the same thing about Justice if you kill him in the end. He states that his death may free Justice to return to the Fade.

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that.
Maybe the fact that Wynne's spirit didn't interfee in the Fade is as esper said, that Wynne has still complete control over her mind her body, while Anders isn't completely in control. Or maybe because Justice is a fighting spirit.

[esper]

the_one_54321 wrote...

esper wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
Wynne's spirit is there only to help her and keep her alive. Ander's spirit has a motive of its own.

Wanting to keep somebody alive is pretty much a motive of its own.

Wynne's spirit does not direct her to do anything or fulfill any purpose. She makes her own decisions. She's not an abomination. Anders is compelled to seek Justice's ends. He is an abominaion.

Wynne is an abormination, she shares a body with a fade denziten, who had a very person goal: Keeping Wynne alive. 
Granted the Faith spirit got the bad end of the deal or is simly not interested in controlling Wynne, because Wynne being the peacefull, loving and failtfull person she are never does anything to upset the spirit, or it simply doesn't have the strenght because it didn't plan for the whole thing, or perhaps it always had a weak will power. Still it is inside Wynne, making her an abormination.  

[the_one_54321]

esper wrote...
Wynne is an abormination, she shares a body with a fade denziten, who had a very person goal: Keeping Wynne alive. 
Granted the Faith spirit got the bad end of the deal or is simly not interested in controlling Wynne, because Wynne being the peacefull, loving and failtfull person she are never does anything to upset the spirit, or it simply doesn't have the strenght because it didn't plan for the whole thing, or perhaps it always had a weak will power. Still it is inside Wynne, making her an abormination.

An abomination is a mage that's lost his mind. Mind in tact? Not an abomination.
 
Or, if you insist that an abomination is any mage that is bound with a spirt, then being an abomination doesn't matter. It's the losing your mind part that matters.

In either case, Wynne's spirit never tries to exert its will over her. There's a whole string of conversation on the matter.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 09 avril 2012 - 09:28 .

[The Elder King]

esper wrote...
Wynne is an abormination, she shares a body with a fade denziten, who had a very person goal: Keeping Wynne alive. 
Granted the Faith spirit got the bad end of the deal or is simly not interested in controlling Wynne, because Wynne being the peacefull, loving and failtfull person she are never does anything to upset the spirit, or it simply doesn't have the strenght because it didn't plan for the whole thing, or perhaps it always had a weak will power. Still it is inside Wynne, making her an abormination.

An abomination is formed when a demon possesses a mage. The faith spirit isn't possessing Wynne, so she's not an abomination.

[esper]

the_one_54321 wrote...

esper wrote...
Wynne is an abormination, she shares a body with a fade denziten, who had a very person goal: Keeping Wynne alive. 
Granted the Faith spirit got the bad end of the deal or is simly not interested in controlling Wynne, because Wynne being the peacefull, loving and failtfull person she are never does anything to upset the spirit, or it simply doesn't have the strenght because it didn't plan for the whole thing, or perhaps it always had a weak will power. Still it is inside Wynne, making her an abormination.

An abomination is a mage that's lost his mind. Mind in tact? Not an abomination.

I don't really see the point in discussion the label.
 
Besides how do you know that her mind is intact: We do not know Wynne from before, for all we know: None faith possed Wynne would not attack you if you destroy the ashes, or magical know about you defiling it, even when she is not there and you can conviently lie to Leliana, but not Wynne. She might in fact have been a lot less devout, we don't know, because we never talked to her for more than three minutes in Ostargar.

[esper]

hhh89 wrote...

esper wrote...
Wynne is an abormination, she shares a body with a fade denziten, who had a very person goal: Keeping Wynne alive. 
Granted the Faith spirit got the bad end of the deal or is simly not interested in controlling Wynne, because Wynne being the peacefull, loving and failtfull person she are never does anything to upset the spirit, or it simply doesn't have the strenght because it didn't plan for the whole thing, or perhaps it always had a weak will power. Still it is inside Wynne, making her an abormination.

An abomination is formed when a demon possesses a mage. The faith spirit isn't possessing Wynne, so she's not an abomination.

The Faith spirit is possessing Wynne. It merged with her body. She says so herself in da:o mutiple times. It is inside her, sustaining her and keeping her alive, despite her being technically death had it not done it.

[esper]

Double post:pinched:

Modifié par esper, 09 avril 2012 - 09:36 .

[the_one_54321]

esper wrote...
Besides how do you know that her mind is intact: We do not know Wynne from before, for all we know: None faith possed Wynne would not attack you if you destroy the ashes, or magical know about you defiling it, even when she is not there and you can conviently lie to Leliana, but not Wynne. She might in fact have been a lot less devout, we don't know, because we never talked to her for more than three minutes in Ostargar.

This is possible, but quite a stretch, given how Irving speaks of her.

[Toki]

Shale. All I want is Shale and I'm perfectly fine. "It" was very capable. I say this because I would prefer it in golem form rather than dwarf form, although either way could work out.

[esper]

the_one_54321 wrote...

esper wrote...
Besides how do you know that her mind is intact: We do not know Wynne from before, for all we know: None faith possed Wynne would not attack you if you destroy the ashes, or magical know about you defiling it, even when she is not there and you can conviently lie to Leliana, but not Wynne. She might in fact have been a lot less devout, we don't know, because we never talked to her for more than three minutes in Ostargar.

This is possible, but quite a stretch, given how Irving speaks of her.

I am not quite trusting Irving's people reading skills considering he placed Ulric in charge of looking for blood mages in the Fereldan Circle.

[the_one_54321]

esper wrote...
I am not quite trusting Irving's people reading skills considering he placed Ulric in charge of looking for blood mages in the Fereldan Circle.

Very different motivations there. Irving was very right about Ulric. Because he thought Ulric excelled at spotting blood mage potential. All he missed was that Ulric would encourage them instead of discourage them.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 09 avril 2012 - 09:58 .

[Deviija]

Well, Wynne does talk about Spirits vs. Demons. Some are good and benevolent, some are corrupt and selfish. So she says. She's 'living on borrowed time' until the Darkspawn threat is eliminated. It could very well be that this spirit/demon IS selfish and has its own goals that revolve around the elimination of the Archdemon and darkspawn. And perhaps it knows that Wynne's already present drive to destroy darkspawn is motivation enough without it needing to exert its influence or power or possession in any large capacity.

Then again, maybe the spirit is pretending to be Wynne, waltzing around in her body. Not every spirit/demon may be all flashy and glowy-eyed like Justice in Anders. Further, I can't say that she's the same woman she was before dying and being resurrected. All of it is just speculation and Wynne's personal beliefs and opinions and reassurances.

Modifié par Deviija, 09 avril 2012 - 09:43 .

[esper]

the_one_54321 wrote...

esper wrote...
I am not quite trusting Irving's people reading skills considering he placed Ulric in charge of looking for blood mages in the Fereldan Circle.

Very different motivations there. Irving was very right about Uldred. Because he thought Uldred excelled at spotting blood mage potential. All he missed was that Uldred would encourage them instead of discourage them.

If he cannot see how ambitious Ulric was... I don't think very highly of Irving actually.

Back to wynne: My point being we don't know. We never knew, non-possessed Wynne, and we never will.

I am suspecting that Wynne's situation are a lot like the Rivani seers. They are possessed too, but the country have not run amok, so there might be something about possessing old women who are a certain place in their life.

Or Faith-spirit are just non-violent. It is the spirits that spirits-healer seems to rely on (according to the skill-three). Perhaps Faith-spirit just like to heal, and not really do Faith-thing.

Modifié par esper, 09 avril 2012 - 09:48 .

[Maria Caliban]

How did Wynne get tricked in the Fade if she's joined with a spirit? That didn't happen to Anders because of his spirit friend.

[esper]

Maria Caliban wrote...

How did Wynne get tricked in the Fade if she's joined with a spirit? That didn't happen to Anders because of his spirit friend.

Because the Faith spirit is weak? She does says that it is feels like it is dying in da:o. Or perhaps it didn't know how to deal with Wynne's memories and got overwhelmed by the body. Or Wynne's own fear simply overrode the Spirits will making her dominant.

Actually Anders is there in the Fade, if you have him and Fenris betrays you for the pride demon and how says a spefic line, Anders not Justice decides to say something (It is fairly easy to hear the difference). So apperently Anders dislike for Fenris is temporaliry stronger than Justice.

[the_one_54321]

Reeeeeeeetcooooooooooooon. <_<

[nightcobra]

Maria Caliban wrote...

How did Wynne get tricked in the Fade if she's joined with a spirit? That didn't happen to Anders because of his spirit friend.

my own personal belief is that wynne and the spirit were still separate entities sharing a body, while anders and justice were intertwined with each other. could have been due to other reasons but that's the feeling i got when i saw justice in DA2's fade with anders appearance instead of his own seen in the assault against the baroness or kristoff's appearance in awakening.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 09 avril 2012 - 10:02 .

[esper]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

How did Wynne get tricked in the Fade if she's joined with a spirit? That didn't happen to Anders because of his spirit friend.

my own personal belief is that wynne and the spirit were still separate entities sharing a body, while anders and justice were intertwined with each other. could have been due to other reasons but that's the feeling i got when i saw justice in DA2's fade with anders appearance instead of his own seen in the assault against the baroness or kristoff's appearance in awakening.

We have never, ever seen the Faith spirit, possessing wynne. So that is like Anders. It was just not glowy or shouting while possessing her. Proberly because it is Faith. 
But Wynne says it is inside her and sustaining her body. She can even get a special attack realising it which weakens her once she let's go - being somewhat similar to Vengance mode.  

[esper]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Uhm,

Regarding the independence of your companions in DA3;
would it be a good idea if they had a personal quest where the main character isn't even present? And that s/he would deal with it alone or with other companions?

I don't know. One way it is a bit weird. The other way, I very much enjoyed the prison break in da:o and always got myself purposely captured so they could free me,.

[CuriousArtemis]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Later on, she'll let a slaver who tried to have her killed go for a boat. I'd say the scene with the demon was spot on.

I know, right? It knew what her deepest desire was, and it played on that.  (Hence why she is tempted by the desire demon, and not the pride demon.)  Isabela wants a boat more than anything else in the world; she will compromise her other wants and needs to get it.  A ship for Isabela represents freedom, something she dearly cherishes.  

That's why it's always very sweet that when Hawke interjects and encourages her to kill Castillon ... well, she's mad at first, but she comes to understand why s/he did that, and she finally can admit that her friendship with Hawke has been one of the most meaningful things in her life.

Can you tell I love Isabela <3:lol: