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This anti Casey Hudson thing...


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#101
The Angry One

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AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Maliciously? Oh get real - Hudson was one of the people directly involved in the creation of the ME universe. Somehow, I doubt he had anything even remotely malicious in mind when he was one of the people who gave birth to the ideas for the series. And without him as that project manager on KotOR and the team that they'd put together, there might never have been an ME series.


Whether he had it in mind, or whether that was just Mac Walters seeking to kick the sandcastle I don't know.
The point is, that's what happened. The universe as we know it is gone in an instant because they decided to force a bad ending.

The endings don't violate the core themes, and they don't turn Shepard into everything he/she fought against just because you don't like them.



Throughout 2 whole games and 95% of the last one, Shepard never gave up.
Shepard always found another way. Shepard rejected the idea that submission was preferable to extinction.
Except for those last 5 minutes where they forced her to do just that.

#102
N7KnightSabre

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Casey Hudson was one of the guys, if not THE guy, who came up with the idea of ME from the beginning. Yeah the ending sucked, and I'm sure he's probably wishing they did something different now, but he was a major part of the series from the beginning. I definately don't hate him.

#103
AlexMBrennan

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He is the project director and this happened on his watch. People's careers rarely survive such crises.

Secondly, it's a deterrent to some degree - it's unacceptable for Bioware to profit from this kind of deceptive marketing, and his resignation is the only way to restore faith as far as I am concerned (or offering a refund, but what are the odds of that?)

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 09 avril 2012 - 07:29 .


#104
Dridengx

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Rheinlandman wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

There would be no Mass Effect without Casey Hudson, period.


he didn't write the whole damn universe.


There wouldn't be a Star Wars without George Lucas.. oh wait he didn't write the whole universe himself either

Modifié par Dridengx, 09 avril 2012 - 07:29 .


#105
HenchxNarf

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Phategod1 wrote...

I think The Angry One does not understand the definition of opinion.





I don't think she does, either.

#106
Rheinlandman

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HenchxNarf wrote...

The Angry One wrote...


The ending is objectively bad. We have made logical arguments as to why this is so.
You have responded to most of them with flames and condescension.

They are not my words. They are the facts.
I'm glad YOU are happy with turning into Saren in the last 5 minutes. I will never be, and that was NOT what Mass Effect was about.


Your words are opinions, end of story. They are not facts. Facts would be written by someone who matters, and not you. Someone who knows what they are talking about, not you.

And you not being happy with it is opinion. Just like you saying the ending is objectively bad. They are opinions. Shared opinions, but opinions none the less. Quit acting like you know everything.

And it is what ME is about. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have been given the option.


You're just a terrible person who loves to get off topic ain't ya?

#107
The Angry One

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HenchxNarf wrote...

Your words are opinions, end of story. They are not facts. Facts would be written by someone who matters, and not you. Someone who knows what they are talking about, not you.


And you resort to insults yet again.

And you not being happy with it is opinion. Just like you saying the ending is objectively bad. They are opinions. Shared opinions, but opinions none the less. Quit acting like you know everything.


Me not being happy with it is an opinion. The ending being bad is not, and the fact that the only way you can oppose this is to call me a nobody just further cements this. So thank you. I had thought for a while that you might come up with a real argument.

And it is what ME is about. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have been given the option.


Circular logic.
No wonder you like the ending.

#108
Deemz

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I hated the ending but I have nothing against Casey. He Was in charge of a story that I did much like that's about it.

#109
HenchxNarf

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Rheinlandman wrote...

You're just a terrible person who loves to get off topic ain't ya?


lolwut? I was answering something someone quoted of me. Get off your high horse now, pls.

#110
The Angry One

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HenchxNarf wrote...

Get off your high horse now, pls.


IRONY CRITICAL MASS.
Get to the shelters!

#111
HenchxNarf

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The Angry One wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Your words are opinions, end of story. They are not facts. Facts would be written by someone who matters, and not you. Someone who knows what they are talking about, not you.


And you resort to insults yet again.


Actually, it wasn't an insult. But hey.

It would come from someone on the team who knows what they are talking about. That would make them facts.

You spouting random opinions does not make them facts.

#112
Dridengx

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Rheinlandman wrote...

You're just a terrible person who loves to get off topic ain't ya?


Let's not get personal here and by you doing so, you are getting off topic yourself

#113
hwf

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He might have received too much flak and bile but if the Last Hours iPad app is to be treated as gospel then he was the top man responsible for the direction the game took. Which includes the ending.

I don't understand how a business that created Baldur's Gate Throne of Bhaal and designed it's ending that included sacrificing the hero or just finishing the job and walking away alive with nice epilogues could botch up on ME3 so much.

"We didn't know it was that important to you!". Riiight.

#114
Hudathan

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What's so hard about saying 'I disagree' or 'no' and then moving on?

hwf wrote...

He might have received too much flak and bile but if the Last Hours iPad app is to be treated as gospel then he was the top man responsible for the direction the game took. Which includes the ending.

I wouldn't.

Modifié par Hudathan, 09 avril 2012 - 07:37 .


#115
shepskisaac

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The Angry One wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

There would be no Mass Effect without Casey Hudson, period.


If he has no respect for his own legacy, why do you expect anyone else to?

Each day the comments from the most zealot retakers are getting more and more hysterical

#116
The Angry One

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HenchxNarf wrote...

Actually, it wasn't an insult. But hey.


I have never agreed with you, but I have always argued your points and not dismissed them because "you don't matter".
That you do so to me is insulting, and demonstrates that you really don't have faith in your position.

It would come from someone on the team who knows what they are talking about. That would make them facts.


Perhaps you should familiarise yourself with the concept of objective criticism.

You spouting random opinions does not make them facts.


They're not random, and they're not opinions. Hell, your only counter to Shepard acting out of character is "They made Shepard do this so it isn't out of place."
Whatever.

#117
Sen4lifE

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The Angry One wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Maliciously? Oh get real - Hudson was one of the people directly involved in the creation of the ME universe. Somehow, I doubt he had anything even remotely malicious in mind when he was one of the people who gave birth to the ideas for the series. And without him as that project manager on KotOR and the team that they'd put together, there might never have been an ME series.


Whether he had it in mind, or whether that was just Mac Walters seeking to kick the sandcastle I don't know.
The point is, that's what happened. The universe as we know it is gone in an instant because they decided to force a bad ending.

The endings don't violate the core themes, and they don't turn Shepard into everything he/she fought against just because you don't like them.



Throughout 2 whole games and 95% of the last one, Shepard never gave up.
Shepard always found another way. Shepard rejected the idea that submission was preferable to extinction.
Except for those last 5 minutes where they forced her to do just that.


Or him.. or they forced him.. just sayin'

Besides, that's your perspective on 'your' Shepard.  Shepard's personality is dynamic.

#118
The Angry One

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Sen4lifE wrote...

Or him.. or they forced him.. just sayin'


I speak of my Shepard, who is a woman. Others refer to theirs as he. Problem?

Besides, that's your perspective on 'your' Shepard.  Shepard's personality is dynamic.


True. So where's the option that reflects my Shepard's personality?
Regardless of that, Shepard has never before cowered before the enemy, no matter their personality.

Modifié par The Angry One, 09 avril 2012 - 07:39 .


#119
Sen4lifE

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The Angry One wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

Actually, it wasn't an insult. But hey.


I have never agreed with you, but I have always argued your points and not dismissed them because "you don't matter".
That you do so to me is insulting, and demonstrates that you really don't have faith in your position.

It would come from someone on the team who knows what they are talking about. That would make them facts.


Perhaps you should familiarise yourself with the concept of objective criticism.

You spouting random opinions does not make them facts.


They're not random, and they're not opinions. Hell, your only counter to Shepard acting out of character is "They made Shepard do this so it isn't out of place."
Whatever.


Shepard's character is largely decided by the player.  Largely, because the player is Shepard.  So saying that Shepard acted out of character is an opinion.  Maybe my or someone else's Shepard acted exactly how they wanted and expected.

#120
Rheinlandman

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Dridengx wrote...

Rheinlandman wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

There would be no Mass Effect without Casey Hudson, period.


he didn't write the whole damn universe. asds


There wouldn't be a Star Wars without George Lucas.. oh wait he didn't write the whole universe himself either


Different industries, different development cycles.  ME was conceptualized by a creative team under Casey, they were most likely faced with "we want to make a sci-fi RPG" and told to flesh out the world.

Lucas already had a world in his head, the studio brought on people to realize his world in a palatable form that would sell.  Lucas' skill doesn't lie in storytelling anyways, his greatest strengths are the technical aspect of cinematography.  That is why we such a jarring difference between the quality of the Original and Prequel trilogies, no one would question a living legend like George Lucas during the prequels production, whereas during the Original trilogies' he was a young newcomer to the industry. 

Terrible comparison.

#121
The Angry One

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Sen4lifE wrote...

Shepard's character is largely decided by the player.  Largely, because the player is Shepard.  So saying that Shepard acted out of character is an opinion.  Maybe my or someone else's Shepard acted exactly how they wanted and expected.


Wrong. All Shepards share certain traits, the most important of which is that they would never give up.
They are not Saren. Shepard has never capitulated to the enemy for an easy success.

#122
Sen4lifE

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The Angry One wrote...

Sen4lifE wrote...

Or him.. or they forced him.. just sayin'


I speak of my Shepard, who is a woman. Others refer to theirs as he. Problem?

Besides, that's your perspective on 'your' Shepard.  Shepard's personality is dynamic.


True. So where's the option that reflects my Shepard's personality?
Regardless of that, Shepard has never before cowered before the enemy, no matter their personality.


A) Proves my point in its entirety.

B) Shepard can avoid fights - the reason is not stated.  In fact, in perspective, Shepard can be forced into a fight after being backed into a corner, trying to avoid it, not headbutting his/her way through everyone.

#123
jdi_knght

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Menalaos1971 wrote...

jdi_knght wrote...

Menalaos1971 wrote...

The biggest issue I have with Casey Hudson is his great Lie. He said before ME3 was released that we wouldn't get some "Choose A, B, or C" ending to the game, and that's exactly what we got. Pretty much all of the pre-launch press that referred to the Ending were flat out, bold faced lies.


When was the statement made?

Just asking because if it's before the ending was done, it could very well have been the initial intention. Things do change (another BW example being that in SWTOR BW was clear that companions could be killed, though that ended up changing during testing).

If that was the case, backlash over "but you said...." just means we'll have fewer tidbits coming from devs during development, since I'd imagine getting bit by the player-base over something changing probably isn't fun.


Not saying that's necessarily what happened (hey, maybe he was like "lolol you'll never believe what I just told the community"), but I'm generally apt to giving BioWare's devs, Casey Hudson included, the benefit-of-the-doubt.


Here.  There are a large number of other Bioware quotes about the ending, but this is the one I specifically referenced.  This was less than two months before the game was released.  The Ending would have been done by then...

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director) 1/10/12
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”

Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is.”


Thanks for linking the article (just checked it out). After looking at this though, I think the "ABC" stuff is really being taking out of context.

He expands by saying:

It’s more like there are some really obvious things that are different and then lots and lots of smaller things, lots of things about who lives and who dies, civilizations that rose and fell, all the way down to individual characters. That becomes the state of where you left your galaxy. The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them. It would be interesting to see if somebody could put together a chart for that.


To me (and let's be clear, this is the way *I* interpreted it when reading - I could always be misinterpreting) it looked as though he was talking about the way the game ends on the whole. The "obvious things" he mentions presumably being things like Tuchunka and Rannoch, extending down to the piddly stuff like whether Chakwas is a war asset. He seems to be looking at the end as "the state of where you left your galaxy". And by that reasoning, there certainly are a lot of possible "endings".

That said, I do find it disappointing that the only impact this has on what-you-actually-see-at-the-end is negligable, and at best, boiled down to an arbitrary "War Asset" number (don't get me wrong - war assets was a cool addition - I just think the final-gameplay-stuff would have benefitted from showing reprocusssions of some of the plot decisions themselves rather than simply relying on the number). In ME2, the decisions affected how the ending in terms of final-gameplay-minutes turned out (and by ending-in-gameplay-minutes, I mean everything once you enter the Omega-4 relay). In ME3, that aspect was virtually absent.

I suppose to be fair, he did say that "we don't have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere", but I tend to think that most readers would have taken that to mean for-the-next-game, and would expect that they would be tied together to an extent for-the-end-of-ME3.


Anyway, guess what I'm saying is that I don't really see that ABC thing as the blatant lie others do. In the context it was given, it makes sense. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with people hating on the ending, but I see the ABC argument as taking something out of context to support a case rather than a true justification. And to be honest, there are plenty of other (better) reasons to dislike the ending and/or be angry. If Casey had said that "the final choice in the game is between 3 options" (similar to ME2), people wouldn't have been any less angry at the current game.

Just my opinion (obviously).

Modifié par jdi_knght, 09 avril 2012 - 07:41 .


#124
j78

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HenchxNarf wrote...

The Angry One wrote...


The ending is objectively bad. We have made logical arguments as to why this is so.
You have responded to most of them with flames and condescension.

They are not my words. They are the facts.
I'm glad YOU are happy with turning into Saren in the last 5 minutes. I will never be, and that was NOT what Mass Effect was about.


Your words are opinions, end of story. They are not facts. Facts would be written by someone who matters, and not you. Someone who knows what they are talking about, not you.

And you not being happy with it is opinion. Just like you saying the ending is objectively bad. They are opinions. Shared opinions, but opinions none the less. Quit acting like you know everything.

And it is what ME is about. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have been given the option.


I have a legitimate question for you and others who enjoyed the ending .what was the point of ME1 if the whole time star child was living in the attic of the citadel. Serene and sovereign would have had no problem With accomplishing their mission right .Just call star child on his cell and tell him to open up and bing bam boom ? This is one of the reasons I cannot buy this ending . It makes no scenes to me but if you have solution to this I would be overjoyed to hear it .

#125
Sen4lifE

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The Angry One wrote...

Sen4lifE wrote...

Shepard's character is largely decided by the player.  Largely, because the player is Shepard.  So saying that Shepard acted out of character is an opinion.  Maybe my or someone else's Shepard acted exactly how they wanted and expected.


Wrong. All Shepards share certain traits, the most important of which is that they would never give up.
They are not Saren. Shepard has never capitulated to the enemy for an easy success.


Not wrong.  Shepard is to they eye of the beholder.  You are arguing from your personality which is reflected in your character.  Not mine.  Not many others.