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[Kidd]

Yeah, we all remember Haer'Dalis (which I choose to pronounce as "Mister Dalis" in my mother tongue) from his minstrel ways and how he would ninjamance Aerie if you weren't quick enough. It wasn't this,

Charname: A coin of copper for your thoughts.
Haer'Dalis: Of course, Charname. What would you want to talk about?
Player: Investigate -> Tieflings in Faerun
Charname: How's life treating your kind out here on the material plane?
Haer'Dalis: Oh you know, it's nice as long as they think we're elven. But when the truth comes out, there's torches and mean words. Means we have to run, you know?
Player: Investigate -> Tiefling names
Charname: Your name sounds very un-Faerun-like.
Haer'Dalis: That would be because I do not, in fact, hail from Faerun. I thought you knew of this? I am a tiefling after all.
Player: I should go.
Charname: That's all for now.
Haer'Dalis: Fine, fine. Here I thought we were getting to know each other. Now where's that avariel...?

I think I missed my own point somewhere. Any way, he was interesting because he was himself, not because he was a walking encyclopaedia on tieflings. See how Alistair is so well liked, because he was a nice guy and not just a Grey Warden + templar who talked about Wardenish and templarish things.

Now it almost sounds like I am opposed to the idea of "different" party members though, and I'm not. I'd just prefer to keep what's rare, rare.

[Lotion Soronarr]

and aslo ,the more amazing paty you have, the more amazing things you do, the sillier it becomes.

Like
PC is the only person to go into the misty mountains and return
Hes the slayer of the fabled Goldatrixyiuh
The one who discovered the lost ruind of Atlantis..
...and the secret chace of Merlin
...and the resting place of Jesus
... and practicly everything else worth of note in the world
He's the one who defeated the dreaded Gorgon
He united the tribes of Alamaria
Slayed the giant Grokko
He's the champion of Veneta
The archmage majoris of Veluna
The grand swordmaster of TheDas
The liberator of Farfala
He found the secret library beneath the city sewers
He inflitrated teh assains guild (that was under our noses the whole time, but we are incompetent)
He's the badass of badasses

etc..etc...
Like those lords with a bajjilion titels, it starts getting redicolous....like reading soem bad fanfic with the PC being a Mary Sue/Marty Stu.

When the PC in a month accomplishes more things then entire countries in centuries, then I can only roll my eyes.

[Kidd]

That list above is exactly why I love how each DA game has a new protagonist =)

[Ianamus]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

I think I missed my own point somewhere. Any way, he was interesting because he was himself, not because he was a walking encyclopaedia on tieflings. See how Alistair is so well liked, because he was a nice guy and not just a Grey Warden + templar who talked about Wardenish and templarish things.

I think this nearly perfectly summs up my problem with the conversations of nearly all of the Companions in Dragon Age 2. I often wanted to talk to Merrill about her childhood growing up among the Dalish or for some stories of her people, like the stories Leliana could tell you. Maybe even just small talk about what she'd been getting up to in the three year gaps between acts.

But all you can ever really talk about in-depth is the Mirror and Blood Magic, and even then only when you are allowed to. A lot of her past and personality is revealed in Party banter and the codex, but why couldn't I just speak to her about some of that stuff myself in-game? 

It's a similar case with the other characters as well. The conversations were too specific and linear to allow you to really get to know them like you could the characters in DA:O. 

Modifié par EJ107, 04 septembre 2012 - 01:28 .

[Lasien]

Cultist wrote...

KiddDaBeauty wrote...
So because you think anything but monosexuality is a lack of a character trait, and you yourself find yourself being a heterosexual male, you want the NPC to be an almost-nude female catering to you and your biases specifically? Got it.

Nope. As I said before, ideally, Demon's true form should be shown only in extreme conditions or conversations, or not shown at all. I'm against all-bisexual paries, where everyone is interchangeable as LI for both male and female PC.

I didn't say anything about bisexuality, although you do realize that a demon of lust would - by necessity - be bisexual no matter the form. I said that the character would be player selected. The choice of gender of the mage and demon would change how they interacted with each other and you. The characters themselves would be at least somewhat differrent.

[Lasien]

EJ107 wrote...

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

I think I missed my own point somewhere. Any way, he was interesting because he was himself, not because he was a walking encyclopaedia on tieflings. See how Alistair is so well liked, because he was a nice guy and not just a Grey Warden + templar who talked about Wardenish and templarish things.

I think this nearly perfectly summs up my problem with the conversations of nearly all of the Companions in Dragon Age 2. I often wanted to talk to Merrill about her childhood growing up among the Dalish or for some stories of her people, like the stories Leliana could tell you. Maybe even just small talk about what she'd been getting up to in the three year gaps between acts.

But all you can ever really talk about in-depth is the Mirror and Blood Magic, and even then only when you are allowed to. A lot of her past and personality is revealed in Party banter and the codex, but why couldn't I just speak to her about some of that stuff myself in-game? 

It's a similar case with the other characters as well. The conversations were too specific and linear to allow you to really get to know them like you could the characters in DA:O. 

I loved suddenly hearing new banter that revealed personality, myself, but I can see the problem with that. I think the big problem was resources, honestly. The stuff revealed by overhearing other characters talk probably wouldn't be the same things that you find out by talking to those characters, and if you wanted to include both, the budget and timeframe would have to increase exponentially. Also, if you wanted to have those little conversations with them yourself, you would have to program in point which would produce unique dialogue, but only when the PC chose to speak to the person, and only if the PC chose to investigate. Waste of money.

     The other big problem was that pretty much all the characters were obsessed with something, and that is going to dictate what they talk about.

[Lasien]

Cultist wrote...

vengerance tried to kill innocent mage-girl. She had nothing to do with templars, just a bystander before rage-filled Anders-Vengerance. Vengerance could be blind as well as directed.
And we'll have to deal with "temptess" only, as yet we've seen only one female form of Desire Demons. but this could be solved with possession. If, for example, you'll have two mages and decide to make a pact with demon and choose ither female or male body for Demon to possess.

I would also like to point out that Anders is actually adding emotion back in to the equation. Anders is so angry he can't see what's in front of him, so neither can vengeance - it's sort of a tandem split personality when Vengeance wakes up - which is bound to screw things up.

Edit: haven't done that quest in a while, so I went and watched on youtube. 

1) Vengeance is obviously dormant most of the time, but still affecting Anders. Therefore, Vengeance doesn't really know what is going on, or who the girl is.

2) The girl calls him a demon, and vengeance is now more human  - and prone to needless anger.

3) Vengeance has learned from anders - he's gotten the viewpoint anders has - which is to burn the good with the bad. All templars are seen as evil, and all mages need to find their own path and never agree with the templars about anything - 'cause they're evil, duh!  Being a spirit who doesn't really understand shades of grey and sees everything in black and white, anything associated with the templars is evil too. And the girl associates with templars, and wasn't trying to escape - just see her family. She didn't want out of the circle permenantly, she just wanted a day trip. So she must agree with the templars, and is evil.

Modifié par Lasien, 04 septembre 2012 - 06:43 .

[Auintus]

Justice's reaction to the world, and to Ander's (apparently repressed) rage is why I think this could be an excellent idea.
If possessing, even in symbiotic form, your character, they would be affected by your thoughts and actions, though still accountable to their own nature.
In addition, the Desire Demon in the Broken Circle quest is quite clearly content. It had what it wanted, a link to the mortal world, and simply wanted to be left alone.

[thats1evildude]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Thank you for compeltely missing the point...

Maybe the problem is that I just don't understand your point.

I feel that having "unique" companions contributes to the feeling of a big fantasy adventure. I'd rather have a grab-bag of misfits with unusual abilities and tragic backstories than party members who can be summed up as Warrior, Mage or Rogue. I'd rather spend 40-60 hours fighting alongside an escaped slave with lyrium markings and discussing his tragic past than help Steve,The Guy Who Like Swords, find a new sword and talk about … swords.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 05 septembre 2012 - 03:57 .

[Lasien]

thats1evildude wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Thank you for compeltely missing the point...

Maybe the problem is that I just don't understand your point.

I feel that having "unique" companions contributes to the feeling of a big fantasy adventure. I'd rather have a grab-bag of misfits with unusual abilities and tragic backstories than party members who can be summed up as Warrior, Mage or Rogue. I'd rather spend 40-60 hours fighting alongside an escaped slave with lyrium markings and discussing his tragic past than help Steve,The Guy Who Like Swords, find a new sword and talk about … swords.

The point is that you need to have a mix of normal and "unique" characters in order to have an interesting story. Although to be honest, any character you encounter is going to be a reimagining of something that came before. It is how well the character is written that makes them interesting, not how unique their backstory is.

Sorronar is just pointing out that, more often than not, when a writer gets a "unique" character with an "iconic" look, the character development goes out the window.

[thats1evildude]

Lasien wrote...

The point is that you need to have a mix of normal and "unique" characters in order to have an interesting story. Although to be honest, any character you encounter is going to be a reimagining of something that came before. It is how well the character is written that makes them interesting, not how unique their backstory is.

Fair enough, though I do regard people like Aveline and Varric as unique despite not being, y'know, abominations or pirates or something.

Lasien wrote...

Sorronar is just pointing out that, more often than not, when a writer gets a "unique" character with an "iconic" look, the character development goes out the window.

I don't agree. I think whether character development is handled well depends on the talents of the writer and 'unusualness' doesn't factor into it. For example, Bella Swan was just as bland before she got a vampire boyfriend as she was afterwards.

Anyways, did I ever voice my opinion on the original topic? I actually don't want a desire demon companion because I don't want to humanize one of the few truly evil forces in Thedas (demons).

Modifié par thats1evildude, 05 septembre 2012 - 04:59 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

thats1evildude wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Thank you for compeltely missing the point...

Maybe the problem is that I just don't understand your point.

I feel that having "unique" companions contributes to the feeling of a big fantasy adventure. I'd rather have a grab-bag of misfits with unusual abilities and tragic backstories than party members who can be summed up as Warrior, Mage or Rogue. I'd rather spend 40-60 hours fighting alongside an escaped slave with lyrium markings and discussing his tragic past than help Steve,The Guy Who Like Swords, find a new sword and talk about … swords.

Everything can be simplified and sumemd up with a few words if you want to go that stupid route.
So your oversimplification of "Warior/Mage/rouge" is pointless, since it can be applied to the "unique" companions too.
Fernis is "emo fisting elf".
Aveline is a normal human, and IMHO she's a better character than 10 Fenrises.

Everything you say pretty much confirms my suspicions that you cannot see past the surface.
You're looking at the covers and want them to be colofull and different, and dont' care what's inside.


"Unique" companions strecth suspension of disbelief. When one guy runs into the most rare, special and unique individuals and does things no one else did, it starts sounding more and more redicolous.

[Cultist]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Everything can be simplified and sumemd up with a few words if you want to go that stupid route.
So your oversimplification of "Warior/Mage/rouge" is pointless, since it can be applied to the "unique" companions too.

Yet it is you, who uses oversimplification and overexaggeration, trying to prove your point of view.

[Lotion Soronarr]

That was funny. Tell me another one.

[Cultist]

It's all written in your posts. Use history if you wish so.

[MichaelStuart]

I desire demon companion would be interesting

[Lotion Soronarr]

Cultist wrote...

It's all written in your posts. Use history if you wish so.

Use some common sense...and good taste.
Then maybe it will dawn to you.

[thats1evildude]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Everything can be simplified and sumemd up with a few words if you want to go that stupid route.
So your oversimplification of "Warior/Mage/rouge" is pointless, since it can be applied to the "unique" companions too.
Fernis is "emo fisting elf".
Aveline is a normal human, and IMHO she's a better character than 10 Fenrises.

I think you just dislike the character Fenris and have somehow transferred that into a general hate-on of "unique" companions.

I liked Fenris. I thought his backstory was interesting and I liked him as a person, even though I didn't share his rabid hatred of mages.

Even with my Hawke as a two-handed warrior, he was in my party quite a bit because his crowd-control abilities and magic resistance were nearly unmatched. I can't say he would have been in my party much if he was just a normal two-handed warrior whose skill set exactly mirrored Hawke's own.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

"Unique" companions strecth suspension of disbelief. When one guy runs into the most rare, special and unique individuals and does things no one else did, it starts sounding more and more redicolous.

It's a fantasy adventure. I like doing things no one else did, like finding the Urn of Sacred Ashes or defeating the leader of the qunari in single combat.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 05 septembre 2012 - 05:25 .

[Crowlover]

Desire demon is too predictable, I want a Sloth Demon companion.

Just think: a companion that would actively try to dissuade you from doing any quests.

[SomniariKess1124]

lol. i'm allright with desire on all terms but her nipples... gold encrusted nipples...

[wowpwnslol]

All Demons are of chaotic evil alignment - what D&D labels as "irredeemable evil" - they are a physical manifestation of human philosophy of both chaos/disorder and evil/malice. A companion like that would never be justified in a role playing game. The OP's Viconia example is not really relevant as Drow inclination towards evil is a result of their brutal society and influence of religion - which is proven by several notable drow either being born with non evil alignment such as Drizzt (Salvatore novels), Liriel Baenre (Starlight and Shadows trilogy) or changing it at some point in their lives - Viconia (from evil to neutral in BG2)

[DMan7733]

If a desire demon possessed an unwilling host, finding you the most interesting and emotional character, she/he would throw herself at you, in an attempt to get your desire and feed off of you, the payout for her work and putting herself in danger would make it work.

Imagine if there is another place like the blooming rose... recruit her there, and when she realises she could not tame you with simple actions or finds you attempting to gain the interest of another party member, greed would drive her to become the person you seem to be looking for... I could see it, would there be a degree of mind control involved though? The demon toying with my mind in an attempt to win my desire, or cause battles to start when they could have been avoided. A templar battle comes to mind "We believe you have a demon in your midst" "Don't accuse my group of that!" "Fine then, prepared to die". Then later finding out that you were the ones to attack first.

After working this out in one playthrough I might have to go through it and role-play a "Weak willed" character. Possibly even causing a desire demon to feel real love instead of greed and selfishness! That might cause my mage character to want to see if it's possible to do so, imagine the possible progress in the fields of magic!

[FullmetalHeart20]

I'd be for it. It never sat we'll with me that all Fade spirits who want to play in the mortal world are murdering sociopaths. It'd be good to see one try to strike that balance between desire and restraint that we all struggle with.