247 réponses à ce sujet

[brushyourteeth]

^ that would be interesting! A nice, unorthodox, mutant desire demon.

If It's just your garden variety desire demon, though - then I may as well come upon it eating some babies because, yeah, that's the kind of junk desire demons do (or would do, given the opportunity). I think, when it comes to demons, it's okay to generalize. That's one stereotype that's based on truth. And I just don't find that very interesting.

[brushyourteeth]

Begemotka wrote...

But,if we postulate that all demons are outward projections of the extremes of human emotion capable of influencing and manipulating our actions,should we not be terrified of ourselves also?

That would mean I could not be my own companion,since desire,rage,pride,sloth and the rest,given the opportunity,can take the driver`s seat anytime and corrupt and destroy me,unless I regain control.

I think this is an interesting idea that's kind of outside the realm of Dragon Age, since Justice himself tells you what demons are, and that they came around before humans.

But if you're asking us the question whether we think we have more in common with demons than we'd like to admit?
Then yes, I don't think we can always even trust our own motives.

I just think it'd be silly to ally yourself with something whose every fiber of their being is bent toward using you until you die. You don't always get that information up front from people, but when a demon speaks to you - you know.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 20 avril 2012 - 03:37 .

[the_one_54321]

Begemotka wrote...
maybe a demon whose "first and foremost desire,the most self-gratifying is the gratification of others"

A demon is the embodiment of a self-serving human emotion. They don't get into specifics like that. Desire Demons exist to grant desires of any kind.

[Dakota Strider]

Honestly, why would you need a Desire Demon, when you had Isabella for a whole game. Not a lot of difference.

[Maria Caliban]

Dakota Strider wrote...

Honestly, why would you need a Desire Demon, when you had Isabella for a whole game. Not a lot of difference.

Other than both falling into a 'sexy women' trope, I'm not sure how you could say they're similar. Do Desire Demons like to get drunk and lay down in gutters? Do they have an affinity for boats and seamen? Do they love to duel and start fights?

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 20 avril 2012 - 07:09 .

[Cultist]

I've always supported any decision of PC to kill his companions. After NWN2 the very idea of shoving companions to your side is awful to me. the only excuse is when such forced companion is supported by decent story. Zevran, Leliana, Sten - i gutted them all because I don't like them. So it should be fair for others to be able to kill various companions. Someone hates Fenris and wishes to get rid of him, someone want to slice Aveline or Merill's throat. More options to kill - the better!

Dakota Strider  wrote...
A demon?  Almost always guaranteed to betray you.  I think the hero of
DA3 will probably have his/her hands full enough, as it is, without
having to worry when the demoness time bomb goes off.

Edwin, Isabella, Bishop, Yoshimo. I prefer interesting companions to be complex.
at least PC should put some effort to build relationship with the companion to secure her loyalty.

As for Desire Demon's goals - in Soldier's Peak possessed Sophia told PC that all she wants is to explore and experience the world. Same could apply to Desire Demons.

[caradoc2000]

Begemotka wrote...

But,if we postulate that all demons are outward projections of the extremes of human emotion capable of influencing and manipulating our actions,should we not be terrified of ourselves also?

One only has to read the world news report to see that we should indeed be very afraid of ourselves.

Maria Caliban wrote...

Do Desire Demons like to get drunk and lay down in gutters? Do they have an affinity for boats and seamen? Do they love to duel and start fights?

Who knows what they do when off-duty

Modifié par caradoc2000, 20 avril 2012 - 08:46 .

[Cultist]

Begemotka wrote...
Do not get me wrong,I get where you are coming from -but I guess the OP wanted a desire demon as a companion to have an "inside view". Or just for kicks.

Actually, I wanted Desire Demon to be more of exotic companion, uncaring for sufferings and woes of others, like Viconia, with perspective, completely alien to those of Thedas dwellers...and, of course, debauchery. Always debauchery.

[Asch Lavigne]

Trying to end the Mage/Templar war with a desire demon in your party, that'll go over well.

[brushyourteeth]

Cultist wrote...

As for Desire Demon's goals - in Soldier's Peak possessed Sophia told PC that all she wants is to explore and experience the world. Same could apply to Desire Demons.

Well it's a good thing you can at least trust demons to be honest and trustworthy.
But didn't she also say she wanted to feed, but that she'd do it elsewhere if you released her? (again, not something I'd trust a demon to hold to)

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 20 avril 2012 - 03:43 .

[Dakota Strider]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Cultist wrote...

As for Desire Demon's goals - in Soldier's Peak possessed Sophia told PC that all she wants is to explore and experience the world. Same could apply to Desire Demons.

Well it's a good thing you can at least trust demons to be honest and trustworthy.
But didn't she also say she wanted to feed, but that she'd do it elsewhere if you released her? (again, not something I'd trust a demon to hold to)

I am almost positive she did not promise to become a vegan.

[Maria Caliban]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Well it's a good thing you can at least trust demons to be honest and trustworthy.

Has a Desire Demon ever misled us?

In fact, has a demon ever lied to us? The only example I can remember is Mouse and that seemed to have been arranged by the Circle for their Harrowing.

[the_one_54321]

I'm pretty sure Mouse was a Pride demon.

[brushyourteeth]

Maria Caliban wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Well it's a good thing you can at least trust demons to be honest and trustworthy.

Has a Desire Demon ever misled us?

In fact, has a demon ever lied to us? The only example I can remember is Mouse and that seemed to have been arranged by the Circle for their Harrowing.

I see the point you're making, MC - and it's a solid one, because of situations like Mama Harriman - whose desires were so corrupted anyway that the desire demon using her needed no extra effort to corrupt her.

There is, though, the situation with the desire demon and the Templar in the mage tower in DA:O. She directly lies to him and pretends to be something she's not, in order to drink up his human emotions and memories until he dies. She insists it's a fair trade because the lie is making him so happy.

When you enter the Fade and deal with sloth, he absolutely tries to manipulate you into staying (until he drinks up your energy and you die) by concocting a series of fantasies meant to hold you there. Is that not lying?

Rage demons and pride demons are both pretty direct. Sloth demons have a sort of base cunning to them. Desire demons are notoriously the most cunning. They will lie of they have to, but even if they don't, the end result seems to be the same.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 20 avril 2012 - 04:42 .

[Maria Caliban]

brushyourteeth wrote...

There is, though, the situation with the desire demon and the Templar in the mage tower in DA:O. She directly lies to him and pretends to be something she's not, in order to drink up his human emotions and memories until he dies. She insists it's a fair trade because the lie is making him so happy.

When you enter the Fade and deal with sloth, he absolutely tries to manipulate you into staying (until he drinks up your energy and you die) by concocting a series of fantasies meant to hold you there. Is that not lying?

The base assumption here is that fantasies aren't real.

But demons are creatures of the Fade. To them fantasies *are* real. They're from a realm where thinking about something calls it into existence. According to the writers, when a demon first enters the mortal realm, it's often confused because our form of reality is completely different for their own.

For all we know, the Desire Demon in the mage tower views the children she's had with the Templar as real. She made them, after all, based specifically on his desires. No one can perceive them but he and her (and perhaps other spirits) and she can unmake them at will, but for a conceptual being, they're likely just as real as the Warden and her companion.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 20 avril 2012 - 05:09 .

[the_one_54321]

Maybe a demon just doesn't understand the concept of lying. But as often as the Warden actually questioned demons on their trustworthiness, this notion is somewhat dubious. For certain, a spirit/demon's understanding of what is and isn't reality is not the same as a mortal's.

[brushyourteeth]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The base assumption here is that fantasies aren't real.

But demons are creatures of the Fade. To them fantasies *are* real. They're from a realm where thinking about something calls it into existence. According to the writers, when a demon first enters the mortal realm, it's often confused because our form of reality is completely different for their own.

For all we know, the Desire Demon in the mage tower views the children she's had with the Templar as real. She made them, after all, based specifically on his desires. No one can perceive them but he and her (and perhaps other spirits) and she can unmake them at will, but for a conceptual being, they're likely just as real as the Warden and her companion.

The desire demon herself says that the wife and children are both her.

Might completely be conjecture, but since demons try so hard to experience reality, I think they know the difference between that and something they conjure up in the Fade. Otherwise it wouldn't interest them.

[paul165]

"For all we know, the Desire Demon in the mage tower views the children she's had with the Templar as real. She made them, after all, based specifically on his desires. No one can perceive them but he and her (and perhaps other spirits) and she can unmake them at will, but for a conceptual being, they're likely just as real as the Warden and her companion. "

Now that is a very interesting idea.

[Maria Caliban]

brushyourteeth wrote...

The desire demon herself says that the wife and children are both her.

Fair enough. But I assume she considers herself real, which would make the wife and children real.

Might completely be conjecture, but since demons try so hard to experience reality, I think they know the difference between that and something they conjure up in the Fade. Otherwise it wouldn't interest them.

They know it's a place with lots of fun sensations where all the delicious food (emotions/concepts) comes from. There's no evidence that they consider it 'reality' and the Fade 'non-reality.'

It's just Disney land with a strangely difficult admittance policy.

[DarkDragon777]

I'll pass on that, thanks.