713 réponses à ce sujet

[MegaSovereign]

We need to build a crucible to end the cycle.

[KingDan97]

camirish1 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.
And now people are angry at ME3.

The cycle will continue as long as people feel they have an inalienable right to never be disappointed, or that their money entitles them to be rude or condescending to others, or that their opinions are the only, best, or right ones.

I think you should account for volume when making a claim like this. 
True, people will always moan about something, but I think in the case of ME3, the volume of angry fans about one particular part is unprecedented. 
And not everyone that is against the ending is rude or condescending.

You're not accounting for market inflation. Mass Effect 3 was most anticipated game of 2012. No Bioware game has ever earned that title across all industry news sources. That means more people bought it and there were more people to be upset.

[Travie]

Stanley Woo wrote...


People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.

Do you still seriously believe this!?

People got angry when DA2 came out because it was a horribly rushed game that was mediocre in almost every measurable way.

I could go on for hours about the ways that DA2 was just a bad game on its merits before I got to "not DA:O"

[MegaSovereign]

To be fair, there was A LOT of hate on ME2.

Not saying that it didn't have flaws, but when the game released the flaws overshadowed the things ME2 did exceptionally well. It wasn't until the release of Bioware's next game that everyone on BSN started focusing more on ME2's pros.

I suspect the same will be true for ME3, especially when the extended cut comes out.

[TreguardD]

slyguy200 wrote...

I guess Mr. Woo is off, he may have just given us something to talk about, there is no way that he can honestly believe some of what he said... right?

I don't *want* to believe that.

I want to believe he's capable of defending the statements he's made.

I loved BG, I loved BG2; I undestand NWN and Jade Empire is "Not for Me". I loved ME1 AND 2. I liked DA:O, and even enjoyed Dragon Age: Hawke.

I love 98% of ME3.

Until Mr. Woo comes back to defend his statements, though, I guess we're stuck.

[Elite Midget]

Maybe because Bioware has been making more and more promises and delivering less and less of them in the end product that was advertised?

[kbct]

KingDan97 wrote...

You're not accounting for market inflation. Mass Effect 3 was most anticipated game of 2012. No Bioware game has ever earned that title across all industry news sources. That means more people bought it and there were more people to be upset.

ME3 sold approx. 70% more copies than ME2 in the first four weeks.
 
The largest ME3 poll has approx 1,200% more responses than the largest ME2 poll. And that's just one indicator.

[Zalbik]

Are you freaking kidding me!

I get home from work and do I get the patch...hell no, just more EA/Bioware BS



This CUSTOMER is disgusted!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Biff the Understudy]

Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.
And now people are angry at ME3.

The only logical conclusion is that you should make BG3

Then people would be angry it wasn't ME3 and the cycle would be complete.

[Kuari999]

Stanley Woo wrote...

camirish1 wrote...

I think you should account for volume when making a claim like this. 
True, people will always moan about something, but I think in the case of ME3, the volume of angry fans about one particular part is unprecedented.

Of course it's unprecedented. Just as when you're growing, each time you grow an inch, your height is unprecedented. We got a ton more people in our community when ME3 was coming up to release. It was only natural that more people would participate in the forums after they got the game.

That doesn't excuse the rudeness, name-calling, insults, accusations and conspiracy theories, though.

And not everyone that is against the ending is rude or condescending.

True, which is why I'm still around and still participating in discussions.But everyone agreed to follow the same rules. Many people can follow those rules withotu any difficulty whatsoever. Some, however, can't.

Yeeeah, umm...  I'm sorry, but...  why aren't the complaints about SWTOR for example as wide spread or specific?  You're not looking at the whole picture.  Bethesda gets a bunch of complaints about their games as well and frankly?  Sell a lot more units than BioWare, but do they have anything of this scale?  Nope.  Could it be because of the types of people who follow either company?  Maybe, but without doing actual market research on the subject, one would be talking out their ass if they made that excuse.  BioWare is far from the largest and most popular game company, but they sure as hell have by far caused my controversy revolving around their ending than any other game company.  I think you guys need to stop jumping to conclusions and actually do some serious research into why this is.  Maybe you guys have, we'll see with the Extended Cut.  Suppose I'm stuck with it since apparently I can't get that refund I wanted, so I might as well see for myself.

kbct wrote...

ME3 sold approx. 70% more copies than ME2 in the first four weeks.
 
The largest ME3 poll has approx 1,200% more responses than the largest ME2 poll. And that's just one indicator.

Really?  Link these, that's some pretty solid stuff there.

Modifié par Kuari999, 11 avril 2012 - 01:59 .

[kbct]

Zmidponk wrote...

If one person gives you a particular opinion, it's entirely possible he's just being an ****.  If you have complaint after complaint after complaint, all highlighting more or less the same problem, if you refuse to listen to that, it's not them who's being the ****.

This what Mr. Woo said about the BSN poll before it grew to the current 71.5K votes:

I am impressed by the number of people who have responded to the poll, but it's still self-selecting and posted on a site where the developers are known to listen and respond to feedback. It's not going to be "accurate," but that doesn't mean it's not note-worthy.

And:

But once again, that doesn't mean their opinions will be ignored or dismissed out of hand. They are all still community members and have still given their feedback. Like if you don't believe in ghosts, even if 10,000 people tell you there's a ghost in the closet, you'll still be skeptical of a ghost, but you'll likely figure that something is up to cause so many people to beleive it's a ghost. Maybe it's really nothing, maybe it's Old Man Jenkins in a ghost costume, maybe a ghost really does exist.
But all that data still has to figure in your decision-making in some form, however small.

I saved the quotes because I thought it was funny to only call the poll "note-worthy" and use "ghosts" as an example.

Modifié par kbct, 11 avril 2012 - 02:01 .

[TreguardD]

Mr. Woo, this is why the Fanbase accuses the Developers of not talking.

Please come back. Let's talk. Help us to help you satisfy us.

[kbct]

Kuari999 wrote...

kbct wrote...

ME3 sold approx. 70% more copies than ME2 in the first four weeks.
 
The largest ME3 poll has approx 1,200% more responses than the largest ME2 poll. And that's just one indicator.

Really?  Link these, that's some pretty solid stuff there.

Sure. I'm using VGChartz to compare sales data for the Xbox version of each game. ME3 sold approx. 2.25M and ME2 sold approx. 1.33M:

http://www.vgchartz.com

On BSN, I'm comparing these two polls:

ME3 (71.5K): http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/
ME2 (5.5K): http://social.biowar...093/polls/1659/

[-Skorpious-]

Stanley Woo wrote....

I am impressed by the number of people who have responded to the poll, but it's still self-selecting and posted on a site where the developers are known to listen and respond to feedback. It's not going to be "accurate," but that doesn't mean it's not note-worthy.

Not to be rude, but IGN's facebook poll is pretty much a mirror image of just about every ME3 poll on this forum.

[AxisEvolve]

Stanley Woo wrote...
That doesn't excuse the rudeness, name-calling, insults, accusations and conspiracy theories, though.

I guess it's fine when the pro-enders do this? As long as they are defending your company it seems they can get away with insulting everyone. 

-Skorpious- wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote....

I am impressed by the number of people who have responded to the poll, but it's still self-selecting and posted on a site where the developers are known to listen and respond to feedback. It's not going to be "accurate," but that doesn't mean it's not note-worthy.

Not to be rude, but IGN's facebook poll is pretty much a mirror image of just about every ME3 poll on this forum.

 
Cnet's poll is about the same also.

Modifié par AxisEvolve, 11 avril 2012 - 02:26 .

[Reptilian Rob]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote....

I am impressed by the number of people who have responded to the poll, but it's still self-selecting and posted on a site where the developers are known to listen and respond to feedback. It's not going to be "accurate," but that doesn't mean it's not note-worthy.

Not to be rude, but IGN's facebook poll is pretty much a mirror image of just about every ME3 poll on this forum.

[Reptilian Rob]

Stanley Woo wrote...
"PR speak,"

you have effectively shut yourself off from listening to what I have to say.

Not sure if serious...

[Doctoglethorpe]

Oh man.... it is sooooo different.  Lolol, so different. 

We're not talking a small minority of fanboys with no volume to be heard outside their little pocket of obsession complaining about things.  Thats usually been the case, thats how it is for pretty much every game, and movie and album and book and whatever. 

If Bioware thinks thats the case this time though, wooooooooooooow they are out of touch.  I don't think they do.  They can't be that blind.  But lol at the damage control trying to play it off like it is.  Typical corporate response, I get it.  Getting a laugh and moving on.  But if they reaally believe it... le sigh.  Le epic sigh of sighs. 

[Mojenator12345]

Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.
And now people are angry at ME3.

The cycle will continue as long as people feel they have an inalienable right to never be disappointed, or that their money entitles them to be rude or condescending to others, or that their opinions are the only, best, or right ones.

I played BG after hearing a lot of good things about it, couldn't really get into it, and, not having any built up expectations going in, just shrugged and moved on.  

Then I played KotOR and was blown away by it.  No raging.
Then I played ME and was blown away by it.  No raging.
Then I played DAO and was blown away by it.  No raging.
Then I played ME2 and was blown away by it.  No raging.
Then I played ME3 and was blown away by it ... up until the ending, then I raged for weeks.

I had some criticisms here and there, but overall I was thrilled with what BW was putting out up until the end of ME3 (I skipped DA2 because I didn't like what I was reading about it).  In my view they put every other developer to shame.  I doubt I'm the only one in this category.  Frankly, I think it is disrespectful and demeaning to write off the legitimate concerns/outrage people have towards the ending of ME3 with "well, people always rage, no biggie.  Unrealistic expectations."  BW completely dropped the ball on the end of the ME trilogy, plain and simple.  It doesn't do any good to pretend otherwise (and disparage your customers in the process).

[kbct]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

But if they reaally believe it... le sigh.  Le epic sigh of sighs. 

Heh, I can barely imagine a sigh of that magnitude.

[InvincibleHero]

Because they were not catered to specifically. If they loved BG2 then the game absolutely has to be true to that or they rage. Funny how the rage over co-operating with Cerberus has died down to a consensus that ME2 is the best of the series among ending haters. 

I think BW gets it the most because they bend over backwards for the fans and it just feeds the beast.

Modifié par InvincibleHero, 11 avril 2012 - 02:38 .

[Kaizerzero2]

Elite Midget wrote...

Maybe because Bioware has been making more and more promises and delivering less and less of them in the end product that was advertised?

Mike Gamble on ME3 ending:

"There are many different endings. We wouldn't do
it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing
as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone
gets?"

Well, this can be seen as a problem....

[xOperator]

People are angry because Bioware Ignores when people they pay money for Bioware Points, that magically vanish. Dont offer any sort of compensation

[Icinix]

Its a hard one to gauge, but I've never seen so much distaste directed to a particular part of a game before.

Sure there were vocal issues with every game ever released, but ME3 - this is something else.

Random Youtube videos with top comments like 'Still Better Endings than ME3', random comments through news pieces about politics that talk about the ME3 endings.

I've been around gaming for a long time, and I've never seen anything quite like the uproar caused by the ME3 game ending.