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Why is there fan rage whenever a new Bioware game comes out?


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#326
AkiKishi

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da mighty rEAper wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.
And now people are angry at ME3.

The cycle will continue as long as people feel they have an inalienable right to never be disappointed, or that their money entitles them to be rude or condescending to others, or that their opinions are the only, best, or right ones.


lol, thats a joke right?


Those are on a whole other level.

#327
Cainne Chapel

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Now see I dont have an issue where I see ME2 and 3 as lacking consistency to their predecessors.

ME has always been an actiony series, even ME1, and I personally believe the change in gameplay was a GOOD thing and meshed better with the way the series was heading. I think it was a great formula shift. Gunplay was smoother and tighter (Especially in 3) and the action was a bit better coordinated than in ME1.

and when it comes down to it thats really the only difference in ME1 (aside from rpg..."Elements" ugh.. lets not debate that please...) was how gunplay played out.

That said each game had its pros and faults, but all in all i think the trilogy is freakin great.

As for the rest of Biowares games, I cant really speak on because until recently they hardly ever did sequels.

DA2 I can of course see issues with, I liked it well enough, but it was a large departure for the most part and I miss my warden. personally I think DA2 would work if it wasn't a DIRECT sequel to DA:O but more of a sidestory. Heck even a name change would of been good to get it out of their "comparing to DA:o" scenario. If was DA:Kirkwall instead of DA2, and not billed as a direct sequel... think that would of solved a lot of its issues ya know?

#328
Cainne Chapel

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Rixxencaxx wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.
And now people are angry at ME3.

The cycle will continue as long as people feel they have an inalienable right to never be disappointed, or that their money entitles them to be rude or condescending to others, or that their opinions are the only, best, or right ones.


Am i wrong if i say that BG and Dao are your most successful games by number of units sold?


NWN was quite successful... as was Kotor.

ME1 sold well, ME2 sold better, ME3 dont think it has enough time out but has sold good as well.

DA:O sold great and DA2 not as much, but still good.

Oddly enough I dont think bioware has EVER sold a game that's been a "sleeper hit" or underperformer in the greater scheme of game sales.

All their games have sold better than industry standards I believe.  As for MDK2 and shattered steel... I dont know, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did sell well as well.

#329
ShinsFortress

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Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.
And now people are angry at ME3.

The cycle will continue as long as people feel they have an inalienable right to never be disappointed, or that their money entitles them to be rude or condescending to others, or that their opinions are the only, best, or right ones.


Perhaps.

But it really does seem to me (and I feel) that the situation with DA2 was and ME3, even more so, is so much worse than with any of the other examples given.  Given how Bioware is taken the unprecedented decision to bring out some free DLC* to expand on the endings (not my preferred answer), surely that is proof of this?

Stanley Woo wrote...

camirish1 wrote...
I think you should account for volume when making a claim like this.
True, people will always moan about something, but I think in the case of ME3, the volume of angry fans about one particular part is unprecedented.


Of course it's unprecedented. Just as when you're growing, each time you grow an inch, your height is unprecedented. We got a ton more people in our community when ME3 was coming up to release. It was only natural that more people would participate in the forums after they got the game.


My question still stands.  Even if adjusted for "BSN population inflation", the level of disappointment with DA2 and ME3 seems so much worse.  If not, why bring out such DLC for ME3?

(Edit for Stanley Woo's second post.)

Modifié par ShinsFortress, 11 avril 2012 - 03:26 .


#330
ReshyShira

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People rage because they want a sequel to a game that was already made and not new IP.

Then when there's a lot of sequels they complain about losing originality and refusing to make new IP.

When new IP is made they complain about it not being a sequel.

Just how it works.


It's no excuse for DA2 or ME3 from underperforming however, those are completely different concerns.

#331
Weeshka

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So far as i've seen the most complaints about me3 are about last 10minutes of the game (not all, but most). I bet every single developer would kill himself to have that as the biggest issue and complaint about their game ...
Personally i do understand why people can be pissed about the ending or the lack of narration around the ending, however i really don't care. I had a blast going through singleplayer and now wanna go through the whole series again.

Could the endings be better - yes they could
Is it gamebreaking for me - absolutely not
Do i regret playing the game - absolutely not

just my 2cents

Modifié par Weeshka, 11 avril 2012 - 03:37 .


#332
AkiKishi

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Cainne Chapel wrote...

Rixxencaxx wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.
And now people are angry at ME3.

The cycle will continue as long as people feel they have an inalienable right to never be disappointed, or that their money entitles them to be rude or condescending to others, or that their opinions are the only, best, or right ones.


Am i wrong if i say that BG and Dao are your most successful games by number of units sold?


NWN was quite successful... as was Kotor.

ME1 sold well, ME2 sold better, ME3 dont think it has enough time out but has sold good as well.

DA:O sold great and DA2 not as much, but still good.

Oddly enough I dont think bioware has EVER sold a game that's been a "sleeper hit" or underperformer in the greater scheme of game sales.

All their games have sold better than industry standards I believe.  As for MDK2 and shattered steel... I dont know, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did sell well as well.


Jade Empire

#333
ReshyShira

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Weeshka wrote...

So far as i've seen the most complaints about me3 are about last 10minutes of the game (not all, but most). I bet every single developer would kill himself to have that as the biggest issue and complaint about their game ...
Personally i do understand why people can be pissed about the ending or the lack of narration around the ending, however i really don't care. I had a blast going through singleplayer and now wanna go through the whole series again.

Could the endings be better - yes they could
Is it gamebreaking for me - absolutely not
Do i regret playing the game - absolutely not

just my 2cents



Considering that when making a story you make the ending first and then work back, it shouldn't be surprising that when this isn't followed bad stuff happens.  Worse yet when one person does the last segment and doesn't even show the other writers it.

#334
Cainne Chapel

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really JE was an underperformer?

Interesting.

and yet i hear all the clamor about how it was an awesome game and one of their best! (I didn't much care for it personally)

But still Not a bad track record. Even their underperformers are still great games.

#335
Cainne Chapel

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James_Raynor wrote...

Weeshka wrote...

So far as i've seen the most complaints about me3 are about last 10minutes of the game (not all, but most). I bet every single developer would kill himself to have that as the biggest issue and complaint about their game ...
Personally i do understand why people can be pissed about the ending or the lack of narration around the ending, however i really don't care. I had a blast going through singleplayer and now wanna go through the whole series again.

Could the endings be better - yes they could
Is it gamebreaking for me - absolutely not
Do i regret playing the game - absolutely not

just my 2cents



Considering that when making a story you make the ending first and then work back, it shouldn't be surprising that when this isn't followed bad stuff happens.  Worse yet when one person does the last segment and doesn't even show the other writers it.


Well james that's not always true.  I've written plenty of short stories and I NEVER write my ending first.  But thats just my personal method.

I generally write an overall outline of how i want the story to progress ideally in my brainstorming stage and then I let the ending flow organically from my brilliant imagination. :D

and i very rarely if ever have any peer overview.  But thats different.

the writers for the ending could of done well with a bit of peer overview...

#336
ReshyShira

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Cainne Chapel wrote...

James_Raynor wrote...

Weeshka wrote...

So far as i've seen the most complaints about me3 are about last 10minutes of the game (not all, but most). I bet every single developer would kill himself to have that as the biggest issue and complaint about their game ...
Personally i do understand why people can be pissed about the ending or the lack of narration around the ending, however i really don't care. I had a blast going through singleplayer and now wanna go through the whole series again.

Could the endings be better - yes they could
Is it gamebreaking for me - absolutely not
Do i regret playing the game - absolutely not

just my 2cents



Considering that when making a story you make the ending first and then work back, it shouldn't be surprising that when this isn't followed bad stuff happens.  Worse yet when one person does the last segment and doesn't even show the other writers it.


Well james that's not always true.  I've written plenty of short stories and I NEVER write my ending first.  But thats just my personal method.

I generally write an overall outline of how i want the story to progress ideally in my brainstorming stage and then I let the ending flow organically from my brilliant imagination. :D

and i very rarely if ever have any peer overview.  But thats different.

the writers for the ending could of done well with a bit of peer overview...



It's usually better to have some idea of what the finale will be before you start writing. 

The ending was done soley by Casey Hudson as noted in this article here:  http://geek.pikimal....t-name-release/

Modifié par James_Raynor, 11 avril 2012 - 03:48 .


#337
Cainne Chapel

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I know I have read that article.

But yeah a finale of sorts should have been in place and epic enough to wrap up the series... hopefully I'll at least get the closure I so desparately want in the new DLC

#338
AkiKishi

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Cainne Chapel wrote...

really JE was an underperformer?

Interesting.

and yet i hear all the clamor about how it was an awesome game and one of their best! (I didn't much care for it personally)

But still Not a bad track record. Even their underperformers are still great games.


You did mean in terms of sales ?

Jade Empire was great for what it was but had some weird stuff. Like Galaxian style arcade games when you traveled anywhere. Good game though. I liked it because of the combat system but I'm not an RPG purist.

#339
Il Divo

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BobSmith101 wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

really JE was an underperformer?

Interesting.

and yet i hear all the clamor about how it was an awesome game and one of their best! (I didn't much care for it personally)

But still Not a bad track record. Even their underperformers are still great games.


You did mean in terms of sales ?

Jade Empire was great for what it was but had some weird stuff. Like Galaxian style arcade games when you traveled anywhere. Good game though. I liked it because of the combat system but I'm not an RPG purist.


It definitely was unorthodox for Bioware up until that point. For all it's faults, I still count it as one of my favorite Bioware games.

#340
Kaizerzero2

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No matter who decides to comment from Bioware, you still have a couple of the pre-release interviews stating that the ending would NOT be like this. My quote from Mr. Gamble back on page 10 was from an interview he gave in February. Game was released in March. Mass Effect 3 should have gone gold by the time he gave the interview...so the 'color' endings were already in place. It would be different if the interview was given 6 months before but almost a month before release???

Following the "now people are mad at ME3" , is it any wonder?

#341
aries1001

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I've been playing games on the pc for the last 14 years. I've played adventure games, (like the Monkey Island, Syberia and the Sherlock Holmes games) action games, and mostly rpgs. And let me tell you, I've seen it all. In 2006, a game called Oblivion came out. And the Elderscrolls fans raged not for weeks, no they raged for years. Un til in 2011, Skyrim came out, and all was forgiven and Oblivion was forgotten, even by the most rabid and fanatical ES fans. Why did fans rage when Oblivion came out? Because it wasn't Morrowind, because you couldn't fly anymore, because you couldn't use the same transportation as in Morrowind, because you could insta travel to anywhere on the map, and because of the quests popups etc. Interestingly, when a little game called the Witcher in 2007 used the same quest popups, no-one seemed to care anymore. I'll admit I had a ton of more fun playing Oblivion than I did Morrowind, simply because it was easier to see where I was going in Oblivion than in Morrowind.

Yes, even in the modest and somewhat more mature (meaning elder than normal gamers) adventure game forums, I've seen people complaining. First it was (I think?) when we went from typing commands like look into a textbook to use the mouse to look around, then it was when we went from 2D slidescreens to 3D environments but with 2D characters or vice versa. And the latest complaint was when Still Life 2 came out and tried to solve the problem that a person in an adventure game could have a ladder, a monkey wrench and a matress in his pocket by adding a sort of inventory system. However, people seem to have accepted this a part of the development of adventure games....

As for the inventory systems, I find it a tragic and also a bit comical (if that's a word?) that ME2 is now regarded as highly as it it. When it was first released, people were outraged, the inventory was gone, the upgrades to the guns etc. were gone and a bunch of other faults and problems they fans had with ME3. (and I'm not counting the tech problems here, just the gameplay problems people had with the game).
Shooter fans were not happy with the combat in ME2, neither were the rpg fans. For ME3, though, I feel that Bioware finally made the correct decision and decided to make the combat as good as the best shooter games out there.

As for ME2, people also complained about not being able to use their old companions from ME1, and that the companions and crew in ME2 were their own persons more so than in ME1 etc. etc. However, I feel that it is exactly this feature that has made ME2 more popular now with the fans as compated to the new game, ME3. Interestingly enough, I don't remember any complaints about the dialogue wheel or that ME1 would have a voiced protagonist.

To continue a bit about complaints over games: In 2006, Obsidian released NWN2. Many people complaint about the ending to this game, little did they know it was to set up the player pc for two amazing expansions. Also, the ending to Fallout 3 received a lot of complaints form ES - and other - fans, mainly because it didn't make sense at all. Bethesda finally corrected this in the Broken Steel DLC.

As for DA2, what I really disliked were the wave combat; the DA2 team released a pacth, I think in may or june 2011, where the waves were toned down a nothc or two, and then two amazing dlcs that did adress at least some of the problems, people had with the combat in DA2. To me, however, the personal story of Hawke and the characters were all amazing, especially their backstories. And the best of it all was that their clothing really fit their background stories. Fenris and Isabella felt like, no, not like real people, but like people that could have appeared in a movie, a tv-series, or in a book. I've guess that is what Jack and Thane feels like to the people who have played ME2.

As for Jade Empire, the game sold, I think, about 1,5 million copies in total. And I clearly remember the fans being angry when Bioware announced the Jade Empire, when Bioware announced it wouldn't have an inventory and that we couldn't use the space bar to pause the game, since it was an action rpg. To mw, however, the combat reminded me more of the old beat-em-up games where you used your fists and legs to thow different combat moves etc. at your enemies.

As for ME3, most players agree that 90% or evem 98% of the game is amazing; the final 5-10 minutes are what people are having a problem with. And when you have 90-95% persons on this forum telling Bioware that they a) don't understand the ending B) are confused by the ending c) don't understand what the ghost in the machine are doing there or d) demanding a new ending because they don't understand either of the three endings, a company regardless of whom it is should really take notice. And also this: When people that normally play Call of Duty etc. feel that they have done something wrong or didn't play the game the right or correct way after having experienced the ending(s), something should tell Bioware that something is wrong, terribly wrong here.

Of course, a poll on a forum should not be taken as a valid statistics; when 90% or 95% of all people who voted in such poll, however, voted that the endings didn't make sense for various reasons, it is time, I think, for Bioware to listen to these voices. And to ask the question to the fans: what is wrong with the endings? However, I do think that Bioware are well aware of how the fans, and we, the forumites, feel about the endings. And as such, I do hope that the free ending dlc will clarifify things and explain things.

For me personally, I'd like to see a statement by why it wa necessary to place the ghost in the machine in the game's ending. Maybe it'll be explained the ending free dlc...?

#342
Ace Kenshader

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Yeah, it is rather sad and pathetic that the Bioware fandom has now dumbed down to the levels of Sonic the Hedgehog's fandom.

#343
Stanley Woo

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AndroLeonidas wrote...

It also does not address the WHY it it is unprecedented Stanley. What does it matter that there are tons more fans in the forums now? WHY are they out and about now complaining about the same thing. Perhaps it is because Bioware failed horribly in that respect and those fans feel slighted given what they were led to believe pre-ME3 release. And the fact that continued PR releases and this "Extended Cut" DLC announcement along with the now famous "Artistic Integrity" quote all prove that Bioware is NOT listening to its fans.

oh, well mostly it's that we have gotten so many new fans and new community members that have discovered that BioWare regularly takes an active part in our community and listens to our fan base that they have come in to speak their peace. This is why people feel comfortable freaking out in here and saying what's on their mind. This is why "movements" are created here and why campaigns are started here.

This is also why there appears to be some kind of internal "gang war" here between the Retake movements and the anti-Retake movement, and also between different portions of the Retake movement. Because people are passionate about our games, because they see us as paying attention, some people feel that if they can just say things loudly enough, emphatically enough, or often enough, that we'll get it through our thick skulls that they aren't happy and we'll do anything and everything we can to appease them. Because they paid money, damn it, and they are entitled to satisfaction from the money-grubbing corporation who "lied" to them repeatedly and with malice aforethought just to alienate them! :)

Some folks still have no idea how and why businesses do what they do, or why BioWare and/or EA communicates the way it does, or how we can "listen" to their concerns and not be forced to fix them as the customer wishes all the time. Based on their posts, some people also have trouble believing that they are not our only customer, and that their concerns are the best, only, and right opinions of the game to have. Of course, many people think that and often have conflicting views, so it's difficult, if not impossible, to please everyone all the time.

It just seems like a great big slap in the face to be honest. You can not clarify major gaffs in a story with more cut scenes and cinematics. I'm sorry. The endings went against everything Bioware said they would be and no matter how you sugarcoat it... you can not change that fact.

And if that's what you believe, than that's your prerogative and I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. If, on the other hand, you're willing to discuss things, we are available to do so. But we're not going to get very far in discussions if you're goign to beg us for information on the one hand, and distrust everything we say on the other. At some point, you either have to choose to believe us or don't. If you don't believe what we say, then there's no point in discussing things further. If you do believe us, then there's still opportunity to talk.

And if you're going to engage in a little bit of "give-and-take" discussion, you actually have to "give" a little, rather than digging in your heels and expecting us to do nothing but capitulate to all your demands. :) Despite what some people might tell you, and please forgive the childish tone, but "you're not the boss of us." You do not have veto power, decision-making power, or direction power, over BioWare regardless of how much money you spent on our products or how many bioWare games you've played in your gaming life. Sorry.

I hope that makes things a little clearer.

#344
AlanC9

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ShinsFortress wrote...
My question still stands.  Even if adjusted for "BSN population inflation", the level of disappointment with DA2 and ME3 seems so much worse.  If not, why bring out such DLC for ME3?


The difference between ME3 and, say, the NWN OC or DA2 is that you can do a DLC that will fix the game for a fair percentage of players with a problem. The other games would have needed a total restructuring.

#345
Sirson

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I agree with almost everything Stanley has said in his posts. Are we that bored of a society that we need to form "movements" and "factions" regarding an ending to a video game? It seems pretty insane really.

#346
Batviper

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Stanley Woo wrote...

AndroLeonidas wrote...

It also does not address the WHY it it is unprecedented Stanley. What does it matter that there are tons more fans in the forums now? WHY are they out and about now complaining about the same thing. Perhaps it is because Bioware failed horribly in that respect and those fans feel slighted given what they were led to believe pre-ME3 release. And the fact that continued PR releases and this "Extended Cut" DLC announcement along with the now famous "Artistic Integrity" quote all prove that Bioware is NOT listening to its fans.

oh, well mostly it's that we have gotten so many new fans and new community members that have discovered that BioWare regularly takes an active part in our community and listens to our fan base that they have come in to speak their peace. This is why people feel comfortable freaking out in here and saying what's on their mind. This is why "movements" are created here and why campaigns are started here.

This is also why there appears to be some kind of internal "gang war" here between the Retake movements and the anti-Retake movement, and also between different portions of the Retake movement. Because people are passionate about our games, because they see us as paying attention, some people feel that if they can just say things loudly enough, emphatically enough, or often enough, that we'll get it through our thick skulls that they aren't happy and we'll do anything and everything we can to appease them. Because they paid money, damn it, and they are entitled to satisfaction from the money-grubbing corporation who "lied" to them repeatedly and with malice aforethought just to alienate them! :)

Some folks still have no idea how and why businesses do what they do, or why BioWare and/or EA communicates the way it does, or how we can "listen" to their concerns and not be forced to fix them as the customer wishes all the time. Based on their posts, some people also have trouble believing that they are not our only customer, and that their concerns are the best, only, and right opinions of the game to have. Of course, many people think that and often have conflicting views, so it's difficult, if not impossible, to please everyone all the time.

It just seems like a great big slap in the face to be honest. You can not clarify major gaffs in a story with more cut scenes and cinematics. I'm sorry. The endings went against everything Bioware said they would be and no matter how you sugarcoat it... you can not change that fact.

And if that's what you believe, than that's your prerogative and I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. If, on the other hand, you're willing to discuss things, we are available to do so. But we're not going to get very far in discussions if you're goign to beg us for information on the one hand, and distrust everything we say on the other. At some point, you either have to choose to believe us or don't. If you don't believe what we say, then there's no point in discussing things further. If you do believe us, then there's still opportunity to talk.

And if you're going to engage in a little bit of "give-and-take" discussion, you actually have to "give" a little, rather than digging in your heels and expecting us to do nothing but capitulate to all your demands. :) Despite what some people might tell you, and please forgive the childish tone, but "you're not the boss of us." You do not have veto power, decision-making power, or direction power, over BioWare regardless of how much money you spent on our products or how many bioWare games you've played in your gaming life. Sorry.

I hope that makes things a little clearer.


I agree with most of the things you say here Stanley, some people are really acting in a childish, condencesding, rude manner.I myself was disappointed with the ending, but just with how it was executed.I was also disappointed in ME3 since it lacked the RPG aspects ME1 and 2 had.

But I disagree with one thing; customers are your bosses.Simple as that, because you may not answer to them but you get your pay from your bosses and your bosses get their money from us.Now it's true we can't tell you what to do or anything like that like your bosses in the company do, but in the end we make the decision if you earn money or not.There are a lot of companies out there that had to shut down because people didn't support their games and they ran out of money and saying such things to customers only angers them more.Even though I agree with most of the things you said here I find this one comment to be rude.

This applies to every business out there, the customers are the true bosses as they are the ones ultimately enabling you to earn money.That's how you earn your pay, as harsh as it sounds it's the truth.So when the day comes that people are no longer satisfied with the games you make you will have to change your direction to keep earning money so in the end customers have indirect control of the product you make.This is why you change things in your games right?You improve graphics, gameplay etc.You even took a lot of RPG aspects of ME out of ME3.You called ME1 role-playing perfected and now ME3 doesn't even have as much roleplaying aspects as ME1 had.You took those out, why?So that your game will reach more people.Even you yourselves stated this.Now you may not accept it but people who prefer action over RPG aspects are far more than us old RPG fans, so they as your true bosses made you change the game in this way.So once again I disagree.

Modifié par Batviper, 11 avril 2012 - 11:11 .


#347
byzantine horse

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James_Raynor wrote...
Considering that when making a story you make the ending first and then work back, it shouldn't be surprising that when this isn't followed bad stuff happens.  Worse yet when one person does the last segment and doesn't even show the other writers it.

I have never seen a writer write the ending before the beginning. Sorry. Synopsis yes, in which you outline all that happens on the way, but you would be surprised how many writers actually just "go with the flow" and write what they think fits best at the time. George RR Martin for one with the Song of Ice and Fire books - he probably has the ending outlined but he sure keeps cramming new stuff in there, having reached 5 out of 7 planned books compared to the originally planned 3. Stephen King does the same, and I doubt that the dude who wrote the Wheel of Time books planned 13 books all along.

Much of the time the ending is simply outlined as "well this happens" and not "this is how it happens".

Sirson wrote...

I agree with almost everything Stanley has said in his posts. Are we that bored of a society that we need to form "movements" and "factions" regarding an ending to a video game? It seems pretty insane really.

 

And this has been my beef with this from the very beginning. I made a post clearly outlining "I like this but I don't like this" and then I was done. I don't need to voice my opinion 200 times before I move on to other things as I realize that no matter how much I yell my opinion will only be heard once, the first time.

Oh and guess what? Crying endlessly about a rudimentary issue is childish. Fact.

Modifié par byzantine horse, 11 avril 2012 - 10:56 .


#348
LohnPondai

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Well, there is diversity in people as there is in nature. What i meant to say is that while my whole circle of friends shares more or less the same dissappointment with ME3 (lack of RPG, linear development, awful ending), most dont give a damn. Theyve moved along and on to another things. You wont find them around here posting, because to them is such a waste of time.

I guess most of the people who remain around here critizising have hopes for Bioware to fix what is wrong. Its been some time since the game was release so people have had time to vent their frustrations. I think the people that are stil around are genuinely interested in finding out if the end can be saved.

#349
addiction21

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byzantine horse wrote...

I have never seen a writer write the ending before the beginning. Sorry. Synopsis yes, in which you outline all that happens on the way, but you would be surprised how many writers actually just "go with the flow" and write what they think fits best at the time. George RR Martin for one with the Song of Ice and Fire books - he probably has the ending outlined but he sure keeps cramming new stuff in there, having reached 5 out of 7 planned books compared to the originally planned 3. Stephen King does the same, and I doubt that the dude who wrote the Wheel of Time books planned 13 books all along.


And even then the "what" of the ending can change. Of course KIng and The Dark Tower he never really knew where.
And its off topic but Martin has share his outline for the end of his series "just incase he is not around to finish the novels" with the shows producers. Those guys are sitting on some fanboy gold.

#350
AlanC9

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byzantine horse wrote...

I have never seen a writer write the ending before the beginning. Sorry.


Well, some do write that way. From fantasy, Stephen Donaldson comes to mind.