713 réponses à ce sujet

[philippe willaume]

Hello Stanley
I am not sure that we can really put the ME3 ending in the same bag as the other game uproar you mentioned. Please bear in mind that I am not saying that you are trying to trivialise or dismiss the issue.
I just think it is a different kettle of fish.


I liked ME1, ME2 and DA:0
I though DA:2 ending was not as good as the game itself and that the game ended up being inferior to DA:0 despites being a better game conceptually.

And to be fair even if DA:2 sold less than DA:0. Opinion about its relative quality compared to DA:0 are relatively mixed. If you pay listen to people of the other side of the arguments, you can easily appreciate that it’s more a matter of game play and path chosen with both game, than intrinsic issues.

For me:3
The game in itself if really really good, bar the ending
Now I am totally fine with the artistic direction, and how and where you the galaxy ends up and the fate of Sheppard. I even though that changing the paradigm of the game was a clever plot twist.

And yes I am fully aware that some people, who did not like the ending, would like where the story ends up to be changed. But it is not really what irks me. Really my problem with the endings is that I expect the end of the story to be of the same level of quality as the rest of the game.

It can’t really be argued that any endings is consistent with itself or that the play through is put in context when it bears on the new paradigm.
For me this is the flip coin of artistic direction, I expect to be told a story not to make it up myself with the disjoined elements I am supplied with.
I can connect the dots as well as any other mortals but when the dots are too far away, you can’t really be surprised if I did not get the shape you expected. Now if you compare the endings to how decision made in ME1 and ME2 are dealt with throughout the game….


As well it can’t be said that the surviving companion have any form of closure.
What makes the lack of closure even more painful is that companion demise/fate are superbly well done during the game. Sure you don’t have to do it but this is the epilogue of the trilogy; we should really know the fate of the stakeholders.

Phil

[spacehamsterZH]

kbct wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Intentionally not involving myself in such discussion. I don't want my comments taken as any kind of "official" or "more important opinion" over anyone else's. those who agreed with me woulduse my name and status as a validation of their cause, while those who disagreed might see my opinion as an attack on or dismissal of their cause. not playing that game, sorry.

That's an indication this ending controversy is big.

That's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is that every time someone from BW burps and the sound comes out vaguely like the word "ending", there's an eleventy billion page thread about it picking apart the statement and everyone tries to somehow turn it into an instrument for their "cause". So, y'know, I can kinda see where he's coming from here.

[1490]

animadpig wrote...

Where is the multiple endings of the ME3 reflected my decision made in ME1 and ME2?

I hope someone from Bioware will reply this
question. Obviously, I try to send the e-mail to EA customer service
and get a "Thank you for your opinion." reply. I don't mind my commander
Shepard sacrificed himseld to save the galaxy. The current ending to me
is like that Tolkien tell Forodo that you have to jump into the fire
with the ring then the ring shall be desotry when Forodo try to throw
the ring into the fire of Mount Doom. However, everyone, even Sauron,
believes that the way of destoring the ring is throw the ring into the
fire of Mount Doom.

I for one have contacted EA customer support three times and got absolutely awesome service each time.  And I'm sorry contacting them didn't fix the problem for you, but obviously you have to understand that one CSR isn't going to be able to fix the ending of the game.  The message HAS been relayed, because Bioware is addressing the ending.

[Drake_Hound]

@Addiction , reasoning has to have a purpose , humanity always put eachother in blocks.
when will that kind of reasoning stops , never .

as long you have a whole paid industry and media and PR and marketing who sells air .
You will have to accept that reasoning . now beter put in your question is .

Who are the real Bioware Fan , If bioware Fan was as great as some people say .
Then SWTOR should have 3.5 million subscribers ?
If ME3 didn't dissapoint , then all we do on SWTOR is chat how wonderfull ME3 is .
Instead of having a disconnect with SWTOR cause of ME3.

ME3 ending made people realise , that commitment and character development is not needed .
That there is no need to get attached at all to your characters , so basically why bother playing SWTOR longterm ?

that is how much ME3 ending had a effect on people I knew .

[Blastback]

Stanley Woo wrote...

kbct wrote...

That's an indication this ending controversy is big. I haven't heard any BioWare employee comment on the ending. Or have I? Well, maybe Weekes and it wasn't good.

Or, you know, it'd start new accusations of "PR speak" and us "having to hype the endings because we "know" they're bad." Better to let folks form their own opinions, I think.

In my opinion pudding is disgusting! 

What then?!

[1490]

Drake_Hound wrote...

ME3 ending made people realise , that commitment and character development is not needed .
That there is no need to get attached at all to your characters , so basically why bother playing SWTOR longterm ?

that is how much ME3 ending had a effect on people I knew .

That's unfortunate that the game made you and the "people you know" feel so badly that you feel like the ability to get attached to characters is lost.  If you truly feel it's hopeless though and not worth discussion, why waste your time here?

[kbct]

Stanley Woo wrote...

kbct wrote...

That's an indication this ending controversy is big. I haven't heard any BioWare employee comment on the ending. Or have I? Well, maybe Weekes and it wasn't good.

Or, you know, it'd start new accusations of "PR speak" and us "having to hype the endings because we "know" they're bad." Better to let folks form their own opinions, I think.

You're in a difficult spot, Mr. Woo. I find it hard to believe that you really think the backlash over the ME3 ending is in-line with other BioWare games. But I understand why you would make such a statement.

Personally, I wish the ending was great and we were bantering about fun stuff on these forums. I really had fun bantering with Gaider and Zoeller and even Priestly. It's a shame this is a sh!tstorm of epic proportions and EA/BioWare is in damage control mode.

[PadawanMage71]

I think there is more rage with the endings with this last game, than with any other game in the history video games COMBINED.

[TreguardD]

Stanley Woo wrote...

kbct wrote...

That's an indication this ending controversy is big. I haven't heard any BioWare employee comment on the ending. Or have I? Well, maybe Weekes and it wasn't good.

Or, you know, it'd start new accusations of "PR speak" and us "having to hype the endings because we "know" they're bad." Better to let folks form their own opinions, I think.

No. No it wouldn't. We promise. How can we have a meaningful discussion if you won't admit to any knowledge on the issue?

The best way to promote a meaningful discussion is to lead it. (I never thought something from my AOL Forum leading days would ever prove useful. I was wrong)

If you can't, can you help us find someone who can? We could loveyou long time.

[1490]

slyguy200 wrote...

PadawanMage71 wrote...

I think there is more rage with the endings with this last game, than with any other game in the history video games COMBINED.

I don't think that Mr. Woo realises that, although he may just be ignorant of it.

On the contrary.  Having been here on the forums longer than any of us, and having spent more time per day and per week than most of us, I'm sure he has a better overall perspective of it than we do.

[Stanley Woo]

slyguy200 wrote...

PadawanMage71 wrote...

I think there is more rage with the endings with this last game, than with any other game in the history video games COMBINED.

I don't think that Mr. Woo realises that, although he may just be ignorant of it.

Or I disagree with it. The internet heightens emotion and exaggerates quite a lot. I do agree that the situation has prompted BioWare to respond, but "more rage... than with any other game in the history [of] video games COMBINED"? Disagree.

[Drake_Hound]

@1490 am doing this from my ipad , why mention it up .
Cause it is a point that Bioware needs to know , that you people don't want to hear about is fine.

But to there PR Marketing it is a important issue .
Mouth to mouth commercial is still valid in these times of gaming industry .
What made planescape torment a terrific game ? a all time classic the sales ?

No wasn't the sales number they were dissapointing , majority of the reason was cause too advanced for the hardware back then .
But does that take away it is a classic ? no it didn't .
What we have here is a all time classic ME3 with a bodge ending , that neither extended cut will fix . no matter how much money you throw at it , it will not fix the problems.

It causes disconnect with fans , other those fan who say stop whinning , because they are ok next project .

[devSin]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Or, you know, it'd start new accusations of "PR speak" and us "having to hype the endings because we "know" they're bad." Better to let folks form their own opinions, I think.

Really? Allan seems to get away with it just fine, and he doesn't think the ending is terrible. He doesn't think it's sublime either, but he states his opinion thoroughly and honestly and engages in discussions, not arguments. (John was also able to do it when criticism of DA2 was still at its peak, for instance.)

Maybe you argue too much, and don't discuss enough, for you to be able to enjoy the same interactions?

I hardly think it's fair to put all the responsibility of you being able to discuss something on the audience. Because it's clear that it's absolutely possible for somebody with the vaunted blue tag to be able to have substantive communication with "unruly" fans, even when their positions are different.

Modifié par devSin, 12 avril 2012 - 01:20 .

[1490]

Drake_Hound wrote...

@1490 am doing this from my ipad , why mention it up .
Cause it is a point that Bioware needs to know , that you people don't want to hear about is fine.

But to there PR Marketing it is a important issue .
Mouth to mouth commercial is still valid in these times of gaming industry .
What made planescape torment a terrific game ? a all time classic the sales ?

No wasn't the sales number they were dissapointing , majority of the reason was cause too advanced for the hardware back then .
But does that take away it is a classic ? no it didn't .
What we have here is a all time classic ME3 with a bodge ending , that neither extended cut will fix . no matter how much money you throw at it , it will not fix the problems.

It causes disconnect with fans , other those fan who say stop whinning , because they are ok next project .

It's not that I don't want to hear what you are saying, but you are speaking in absolutes.  There is no way to have a discussion if you have already decided that something "can not" or "will not" happen.   I'd personally like to wait and see what the ending looks like after the extended cut before I decide it permanently sucks.

[Drake_Hound]

So basically you are saying I made up my mind , well as a player who played trough me3 canon version , means no import , just go with the flow no attachement , the ending is fine .
I do not need more clarification , it was just that the END.

But as a Player who i ported a character from ME1-ME3 the ending doesn't make sense at all.
No matter what options I choose , so I can see both side of the argument , can you ?

I do not see those 3 choice change the outcome no matter how I am going to throw a pitch at it .
From a character , humanity write it's own destiny , no I make my own choice.
how would those 3 endings extended suffice for the serie ?

[animadpig]

1490 wrote...

animadpig wrote...

Where is the multiple endings of the ME3 reflected my decision made in ME1 and ME2?

I hope someone from Bioware will reply this
question. Obviously, I try to send the e-mail to EA customer service
and get a "Thank you for your opinion." reply. I don't mind my commander
Shepard sacrificed himseld to save the galaxy. The current ending to me
is like that Tolkien tell Forodo that you have to jump into the fire
with the ring then the ring shall be desotry when Forodo try to throw
the ring into the fire of Mount Doom. However, everyone, even Sauron,
believes that the way of destoring the ring is throw the ring into the
fire of Mount Doom.

I for one have contacted EA customer support three times and got absolutely awesome service each time.  And I'm sorry contacting them didn't fix the problem for you, but obviously you have to understand that one CSR isn't going to be able to fix the ending of the game.  The message HAS been relayed, because Bioware is addressing the ending.

According the statement annonued by Bioware on the PAX 2012, it said that Bioware will address the ending by more closure not expalin where is the mutilple endings. However, the reply from EA seems to me that no one has the answer for me or they don't want any customer to know the answer. I hope Mr. Woo can answer or discuss this issue.

[1490]

Drake_Hound wrote...

So basically you are saying I made up my mind , well as a player who played trough me3 canon version , means no import , just go with the flow no attachement , the ending is fine .
I do not need more clarification , it was just that the END.

But as a Player who i ported a character from ME1-ME3 the ending doesn't make sense at all.
No matter what options I choose , so I can see both side of the argument , can you ?

I do not see those 3 choice change the outcome no matter how I am going to throw a pitch at it .
From a character , humanity write it's own destiny , no I make my own choice.
how would those 3 endings extended suffice for the serie ?

Well I'm sorry if I paraphrased you the wrong way, but I got the idea from your statements that you were "done" with the games as it were, and were already decided that you weren't going to like anything else Bioware put out for ME 3. If I were you and I had made that decision, I wouldn't see much point to complain about it when in my mind, it would never change. But that's just me.

And yes, I do wish the ending made more sense and I do wish I had more choices. I feel that it was an altogether unsatisfying end.  However, Bioware has been very good at integrating fan feedback in the past, so I won't make an overall decision about the end of the series until I see their ending DLC.

[1490]

animadpig wrote...


According the statement annonued by Bioware on the PAX 2012, it said that Bioware will address the ending by more closure not expalin where is the mutilple endings. However, the reply from EA seems to me that no one has the answer for me or they don't want any customer to know the answer. I hope Mr. Woo can answer or discuss this issue.

To be fair, I dont' think your standard customer service rep is going to know what is upcoming from the game developers.  That's like asking your grocery store bag checker if they know what new brands are coming out in a few months.  They don't deal with that stuff; they can only answer questions that they have the information for.

Modifié par 1490, 12 avril 2012 - 01:36 .

[Drake_Hound]

If I am done with bioware , like I am with wow , do you think it is worth my time to post ?
I just move on , beter things to do with life then rant on the forums , to a bunch of strangers who don't give a F , cause real life they don't care .

why I know spent 10k euro on Real Life meetings for guilds , and honestly people don't give a **** about eachother , they only care what they did .

Yes if outcome will not change then am going to fade just like majority of the forum people have decided to do , just like majority in SWTOR has decided to do .

and put my resources and toughts into something else , that comes closer to my views .
No need anymore to rage and defend about a bunch of people who never can put money where there mouth is .

[animadpig]

1490 wrote...

To be fair, I dont' think your standard customer service rep is going to know what is upcoming from the game developers.  That's like asking your grocery store bag checker if they know what new brands are coming out in a few months.  They don't deal with that stuff; they can only answer questions that they have the information for.

I agree with you. However, EA as a manufacturer, supervisor of Bioware, they should prepare for this kind question that the game is match the prescriptions announced before the release. Or, there is a fine print I should read it? I don't think so. I am still waiting for the answer to my question from Bioware/EA.

[1490]

Drake_Hound wrote...

If I am done with bioware , like I am with wow , do you think it is worth my time to post ?
I just move on , beter things to do with life then rant on the forums , to a bunch of strangers who don't give a F , cause real life they don't care .

why I know spent 10k euro on Real Life meetings for guilds , and honestly people don't give a **** about eachother , they only care what they did .

Yes if outcome will not change then am going to fade just like majority of the forum people have decided to do , just like majority in SWTOR has decided to do .

and put my resources and toughts into something else , that comes closer to my views .
No need anymore to rage and defend about a bunch of people who never can put money where there mouth is .

Ok, so if you are posting now then, you must have some hope or desire for things to change, rather stating they cannot be changed for the better?  If that's the case, perhaps you should do what others of us have done and make (polite) suggestions. Like I said earlier, some of my suggestions after ME 1 and ME 2 that I shared with other people got into ME 2 and ME 3, so Bioware DOES listen.  Or if you don't feel like doing that, just move on for now and check back in when the DLC comes out: then you can give your final opinion.  No use being frustrated about it.

[1490]

animadpig wrote...

1490 wrote...

To be fair, I dont' think your standard customer service rep is going to know what is upcoming from the game developers.  That's like asking your grocery store bag checker if they know what new brands are coming out in a few months.  They don't deal with that stuff; they can only answer questions that they have the information for.

I agree with you. However, EA as a manufacturer, supervisor of Bioware, they should prepare for this kind question that the game is match the prescriptions announced before the release. Or, there is a fine print I should read it? I don't think so. I am still waiting for the answer to my question from Bioware/EA.

What exactly was the question(s) you asked them?  A lot of stuff the devs cannot tell anyone else in the company until release due to nondisclosure agreements.  PR people are there to help you game issues like bugs, fixes, and troubleshooting.  They don't have inside information on upcoming products.

[addiction21]

Drake_Hound wrote...

@Addiction , reasoning has to have a purpose , humanity always put eachother in blocks.
when will that kind of reasoning stops , never .

as long you have a whole paid industry and media and PR and marketing who sells air .
You will have to accept that reasoning . now beter put in your question is .

Who are the real Bioware Fan , If bioware Fan was as great as some people say .
Then SWTOR should have 3.5 million subscribers ?
If ME3 didn't dissapoint , then all we do on SWTOR is chat how wonderfull ME3 is .
Instead of having a disconnect with SWTOR cause of ME3.

ME3 ending made people realise , that commitment and character development is not needed .
That there is no need to get attached at all to your characters , so basically why bother playing SWTOR longterm ?

that is how much ME3 ending had a effect on people I knew .

Then stop being part of the problem.

First it was old school gamers, then you switched to casual gamers, then to "true gamers" and now here you are trying to bring up "The real BioWare fan"

Never even attempting to answer a question. Just throwing generalzations and arbitrary groups out there.

Why cant a casual gamer like DAO, BG ME1, or Ultima?
Why can't a Hardcore gamer like angry birds or have come from the early days of gaming when everything was "casual"? Donkey Kong, Mario, Zelda, Sonic are just some of those very simplistic games that are held up as the all time classics.
Can a "true BioWare fan" not like BG 1 or 2? Can they like DA2 or ME3 and its ending?

I have been playing FPS games since the orginal Wolfeinstein. I also played thru all the gold box games, Ultimas, Final Fantasys, anything D&D related, Wing Commanders, Captain Keen, Crusaders, Monkey Islands, Zeldas, Angry Birds (countless other IOS games) finished BattleToads (and the gameboy one), all the Ninja Gaidan games (the calluss on my thumbs are still there) every Metal Gear game since the NES and I could go on endlessly name dropping.

What group do I fit into? I have played thru the hardest of the hardcore games. I have played thru some in a single play thru. When I was younger and had that s ort of time.

I had no idea all those years ago that I had to restrict myself into a specific sort of game or my opinion would mean nothing. That I would just be some disloyal statistic.

You might play games but you are no gamer if you think the community needs to be segregated into little groups and labeled. Then have their opinions dismissed because they are in X group.

Modifié par addiction21, 12 avril 2012 - 01:58 .