713 réponses à ce sujet

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

ElementL09 wrote...

Theres fanrage whenever a new game comes out and changes something. HAPPENS WITH EVERYGAME.

Not to this level.

[Kargsure]

Eain wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

lol Should I feel guilty that I enjoyed ME3? That's the feeling I get when I come here now. >.>

No, we all enjoyed ME3.

But your faculties of reason will be questioned for liking an ending so full of plotholes. I still can't get around the fact that there are people here (however small a minority they may be) who don't see those.

Personally I envy such people - After enjoying most of ME3, I experienced and ending that overshadowed the rest of the game for me - what I wouldn't give to have liked the ending too.

[SomeKindaEnigma]

Stanley Woo wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

PadawanMage71 wrote...

I think there is more rage with the endings with this last game, than with any other game in the history video games COMBINED.

I don't think that Mr. Woo realises that, although he may just be ignorant of it.

Or I disagree with it. The internet heightens emotion and exaggerates quite a lot. I do agree that the situation has prompted BioWare to respond, but "more rage... than with any other game in the history [of] video games COMBINED"? Disagree.

I have to agree with Mr. Woo on this one.  Duke Nukem was widely criticized for a being a horrible game all around.  ME3 just for the ending.  At least we didn't wait as long for ME3 to come out as duke nukem fans did... just for a colossal disappointment like that.

[InvincibleHero]

Kargsure wrote...

Personally I envy such people - After enjoying most of ME3, I experienced and ending that overshadowed the rest of the game for me - what I wouldn't give to have liked the ending too.

That's easy you have free will. Just decide it doesn't matter so much that you hate something you do not control the destiny of like a video game characetr or universe. We only experience what they provide so why sweat stuff you cannot change. What do you get for wallowing in anger? You just punish yourself.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Becaz zem ol' fans are ignored by 3 last games just for more cash.
Older rages were because of matter of different tastes. Last 2 years rages are caused by 'less RPG in favor of more action', less quality of products and more restrictions.

[force192]

I've noticed this. I think the fans expect too much from BioWare.

Modifié par force192, 12 avril 2012 - 05:10 .

[Felene]

Kargsure wrote...

Eain wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

lol Should I feel guilty that I enjoyed ME3? That's the feeling I get when I come here now. >.>

No, we all enjoyed ME3.

But your faculties of reason will be questioned for liking an ending so full of plotholes. I still can't get around the fact that there are people here (however small a minority they may be) who don't see those.

Personally I envy such people - After enjoying most of ME3, I experienced and ending that overshadowed the rest of the game for me - what I wouldn't give to have liked the ending too.

Well if you give up years of proper educations...

[Ghost Lightning]

maybe bioware games aren't as good as we try to convince ourselves they are?

[68sierra]

force192 wrote...

I've noticed this. I think the fans expect to much from BioWare.

Its not that we expect too much.  Its that we expect what we are told we'll get when spending our hard-earned money on their products.  Fable (more precisely, the writer/creator) had the same problems and at least he learned from it.  Promising this and that and not delivering...  At least, he "manned up" to it & produced better games/delivered on his promises in future installments.  Bioware has a recent history of letdowns AND with this recent "Promising 16 endings, cumulative choices effect the outcome of the overall story, blah blah (you've heard it all by now)" AND the horrible PR with Bioware refusing to "man-up,"  we got ourselves the makings for alot more fans doing alot more ****ing.

I really don't think anything will come out of this with ME3, but I can guarentee if DA3 is a letdown, that will be the final straw for a lot of people.  Bioware is pretty much on a chopping block with the majority of fans atm.  What happens now is really up to Bioware.

[daigakuinsei]

Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.
And now people are angry at ME3.

The cycle will continue as long as people feel they have an inalienable right to never be disappointed, or that their money entitles them to be rude or condescending to others, or that their opinions are the only, best, or right ones.

This is speaking pretty broadly.  I loved KotOR (first RPG I ever played), ME and ME2, and I loved ME3 until the last 10 minutes.  My own experience with ME3 was jarring because no BioWare game I'd played had ever disappointed me until ME3.

Addendum: I still have faith that the Extended Cut will provide an amazing and gratifying end 

Modifié par daigakuinsei, 12 avril 2012 - 05:14 .

[68sierra]

Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.
And now people are angry at ME3.

The cycle will continue as long as people feel they have an inalienable right to never be disappointed, or that their money entitles them to be rude or condescending to others, or that their opinions are the only, best, or right ones.

You are always going to have some peeps not happy with the "next" game, and most of those peeps are the abnoxious fools that make one side will point to and scream foul.  (The ME3 fans complaining about blue babies, for example.)

Fortunately, the vast majority of us disgruntled folks have legit arguements about getting a product that was advertised to us and not the product that was received. 

Basically, if I was to buy a TV with a built in Blue-Ray player and I the TV didn't have the Blue-Ray player, I'm ****ing about it.  This is essentially what happened with the ABC ending.  We were told 16 distinct endings before the game came out and all we got is 1 ending with 3 variations.  I'm ****ing about it.

Modifié par 68sierra, 12 avril 2012 - 05:38 .

[Aviditie]

I'd never come on this forum before finishing ME3. And I came on to figure out what went wring. Was it my game? How I played? Did they not have enough time? What happened? Because it literally ruined the whole series for me. I can't go back and play 1, which was my fav of all time. I wasn't a huge fan of all things ME2, bui still liked it. Same with DA 2. Otherwise I ave LOVED their games.

so the likelyhood I'll be back once I can finally move on from the pain of ME3 is low to nil.

I know nothing about complaints about the other games. I came here hoping for answers from the devs about what happened with ME3. That's still all I really want. to know if they really truly believe in that ending, r if they know better but can't say so publicly.

Anyone who loved the ending, could you please PM me about why/what you thought was great about it? Did you interpret it differently or just like the destruction of the whole ME universe?

[Aviditie]

But I wanted - very much wanted - to love ME3. And I can't help it. The ending really made me hate the whole game, and look back at the others with remorse for what could have been. And that's so sad for me. I feel like I lost a good friend. Like I found out they just did something incomprehensibly terrible to me that I cannot forgive. (and not the death of Shepard or the fact that the triligy ended so please don't try to use that.)

[68sierra]

Aviditie wrote...

I'd never come on this forum before finishing ME3. And I came on to figure out what went wring. Was it my game? How I played? Did they not have enough time? What happened? Because it literally ruined the whole series for me. I can't go back and play 1, which was my fav of all time. I wasn't a huge fan of all things ME2, bui still liked it. Same with DA 2. Otherwise I ave LOVED their games.

so the likelyhood I'll be back once I can finally move on from the pain of ME3 is low to nil.

*nods*  You and me both.

I never once typed up anything on these forums until ME3.  I mostly came here to look up class builds, register games, etc.

[woodbyte]

The last time I saw a community this riled up was during Eve Online's now infamous Incarna expansion. The backlash was so bad and they bled so many subs they eventually emitted a public apology and completely turned around their development practises resulting in one of the best expansions yet for that MMO: Crucible.

But that's the exception, I'm afraid. Most fan outcries fail to produce such a positive change.

I wasn't around the forums when DA2 came out. I think so long as you avoid drawing comparisons to Origins (yeah kinda hard not to), it's an enjoyable game. I felt it was much like ME2 focusing on companion stories, and there were some good ones. I did not particularly enjoy the ending but felt it was well written. The only really bad memories I have from DA2 was the awful, awful reuse of the same art assets over and over and over again. It kept me from replaying it again, but I still remember it fondly (won't ever forget the quest when Hawke's mother dies, and the music afterwards)

ME3 is filled with such moments, it's just a shame all I can remember from it are the last f'kin 10 minutes.


edit #1 (after reading a few more pages of this thread):
@Stanley Woo: Your tone hardly seems appropriate, but I suppose you're entitled  to it as much as we are. Oh no, I've used a bad word. *throws coin into jar*

Modifié par woodbyte, 12 avril 2012 - 06:25 .

[Nostradamoose]

68sierra wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.
And now people are angry at ME3.

The cycle will continue as long as people feel they have an inalienable right to never be disappointed, or that their money entitles them to be rude or condescending to others, or that their opinions are the only, best, or right ones.

You are always going to have some peeps not happy with the "next" game, and most of those peeps are the abnoxious fools that make one side will point to and scream foul.  (The ME3 fans complaining about blue babies, for example.)

Fortunately, the vast majority of us disgruntled folks have legit arguements about getting a product that was advertised to us and not the product that was received. 

Basically, if I was to buy a TV with a built in Blue-Ray player and I the TV didn't have the Blue-Ray player, I'm ****ing about it.  This is essentially what happened with the ABC ending.  We were told 16 distinct endings before the game came out and all we got is 1 ending with 3 variations.  I'm ****ing about it.

Really? Straw man arguments?

Learn to debate. Red herrings like this are annoying and get us nowhere

[Drake_Hound]

@woodbyte nailed it on the head , last F 10 min ...

made more impact on the game then all the wonderfull things that gone before , and the wonderfull things were really done with love the genophage , samara , miranda tale .

But then again every lawyer knows the closing statement is the most important issue .
Guess what the closing statement of this game wrecked the whole case that was full of win .

[allyon]

I always browsed on the forums never posting. I played ME1, ME2 , DA1 and DA:O. I know I don't have the tags on this account they are registered to my x-gf. That was a fun conversation calling her up and begging for my saves from ME2.

I never once felt the need to post anything till the ending of ME3 reached up and smacked me across the face. Even my friends who warned me about DA2 I ignored them and got the game anyway. I even will go out on a limb and say I enjoyed DA2 not for the game play mind you but for the story. That is why I buy Biowars games is for the story. That is why I bought the CE of ME3 was for the story.

Its just sad that I got a great story missing a ending that I am now supposed to make up in head with "speculation for everyone". To me it is a incomplete product that needs to live up to what was advertised.

[pikey1969]

Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.
And now people are angry at ME3.

The cycle will continue as long as people feel they have an inalienable right to never be disappointed, or that their money entitles them to be rude or condescending to others, or that their opinions are the only, best, or right ones.

I really hope that particular sentiment (sadly too true in many ways) doesn't overshadow your work as a pre-concieved notion when faced with fans voicing opinions that aren't 'to your liking'.

That said, even though I myself personally thought the endings were... sorely lacking, I've sadly found myself in 'cahoots' and 'shoulder to shoulder' with the kind of people you just described these past few weeks. It's been kinda sad.

Modifié par pikey1969, 12 avril 2012 - 07:30 .

[AndroLeonidas]

Stanley Woo wrote...

AndroLeonidas wrote...

It also does not address the WHY it it is unprecedented Stanley. What does it matter that there are tons more fans in the forums now? WHY are they out and about now complaining about the same thing. Perhaps it is because Bioware failed horribly in that respect and those fans feel slighted given what they were led to believe pre-ME3 release. And the fact that continued PR releases and this "Extended Cut" DLC announcement along with the now famous "Artistic Integrity" quote all prove that Bioware is NOT listening to its fans.

oh, well mostly it's that we have gotten so many new fans and new community members that have discovered that BioWare regularly takes an active part in our community and listens to our fan base that they have come in to speak their peace. This is why people feel comfortable freaking out in here and saying what's on their mind. This is why "movements" are created here and why campaigns are started here.

This is also why there appears to be some kind of internal "gang war" here between the Retake movements and the anti-Retake movement, and also between different portions of the Retake movement. Because people are passionate about our games, because they see us as paying attention, some people feel that if they can just say things loudly enough, emphatically enough, or often enough, that we'll get it through our thick skulls that they aren't happy and we'll do anything and everything we can to appease them. Because they paid money, damn it, and they are entitled to satisfaction from the money-grubbing corporation who "lied" to them repeatedly and with malice aforethought just to alienate them!

Some folks still have no idea how and why businesses do what they do, or why BioWare and/or EA communicates the way it does, or how we can "listen" to their concerns and not be forced to fix them as the customer wishes all the time. Based on their posts, some people also have trouble believing that they are not our only customer, and that their concerns are the best, only, and right opinions of the game to have. Of course, many people think that and often have conflicting views, so it's difficult, if not impossible, to please everyone all the time.

It just seems like a great big slap in the face to be honest. You can not clarify major gaffs in a story with more cut scenes and cinematics. I'm sorry. The endings went against everything Bioware said they would be and no matter how you sugarcoat it... you can not change that fact.

And if that's what you believe, than that's your prerogative and I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. If, on the other hand, you're willing to discuss things, we are available to do so. But we're not going to get very far in discussions if you're goign to beg us for information on the one hand, and distrust everything we say on the other. At some point, you either have to choose to believe us or don't. If you don't believe what we say, then there's no point in discussing things further. If you do believe us, then there's still opportunity to talk.

And if you're going to engage in a little bit of "give-and-take" discussion, you actually have to "give" a little, rather than digging in your heels and expecting us to do nothing but capitulate to all your demands. Despite what some people might tell you, and please forgive the childish tone, but "you're not the boss of us." You do not have veto power, decision-making power, or direction power, over BioWare regardless of how much money you spent on our products or how many bioWare games you've played in your gaming life. Sorry.

I hope that makes things a little clearer.

This will be a mildly long winded response...

I have two published Sci-fi novels and four completed books in a series of eight that are Sci-fi/fantasy original fiction, none of which are less than a thousand pages each. I do have some knowledge of a fan base and the need to communicate with them. I communicate with my fans almost on a daily basis answering questions in regards to the universe I created and such, so I would be very willing to discuss things if you or Bioware were able to provide information.
And I have noticed a huge number of new profiles and gamers hit the boards since March 6th. I believe the reason for that should be very evident by now.
I didn't actually become a fan of Bioware until KOTOR came along... played all of their games since KOTOR. And for the most part loved them all. But Mass Effect was the crowning jewel of their games and one where everyone who played it for the most part felt the same way.

What I see is this...

The vast majority of the fans on this board and off in many places are upset with one portion of an otherwise brillant game series. The most important part if you ask me. The Ending.
For whatever the reason... and there are many on all sides... the ending of ME3 was not in any way, shape or form what we were led to believe it would be by so many others. I won't list the litany of statements made by members of Bioware to prove that point because it has been posted countless times before.
These statements were not vague or ambiguous in any way... they were statements of fact. This is not something that can be denied by you or anyone.
The thousands of fans who expected this received exactly what we were told we would not get. We used these forums to express that fact and call Bioware out on it. Many have chosen to do so in ways the majority would not approve of and therefore we are all labeled as part of this group by yourself and others at Bioware.
What we expected from Bioware, what we were told we would get, this never came to be. We received what we were told we would not receive. And even that was very poorly done by anyone's standards. 
We have gotten no legitimate reason for this from Bioware. All we have received is silence or vague references to that now famous "Artistic Integrity" quote. We have been referred to in less than stellar terms by yourself and in most cases others from Bioware who post on these boards.
There is and has not been any discussion or information coming from Bioware.
Now we have the recent statement that, in fact, Bioware has no intention of changing anything. They will only attempt to clarify an ending that in my opinion and those of a vast majority can not be reasonably explained away. Which is ultimately the defining reason behind this whole mess.
They went against everything that they have established as "canon" if you will, across the course of three games, and gave us an ending that renders everything we did in those games mute. 
At present, you will forgive me if I am somewhat skeptical.
Understandably... you can not speak to these points for whatever reason... which makes any discussion also mute because you can not address the primary grievance of so very many of Bioware's fans. And in some respects... whether unintentional or not... your responses have been a tad bit condenscending and only add fuel to the fire that already rages out of control. 
We can only hope that Bioware is in some way able to salvage this series with their "Extended Cut" DLC. I don't see any way how adding cinematic sequences can do this if the premise of the ending is still the same, but I don't work for Bioware.
I voiced my opinion of ME2's treatment of a certain character along with thousands of others and then sang their praise when they fixed it with a DLC. They did a superb job in my opinion, and I think that was mostly fan driven as were the Garrus and Tali plot lines. I just don't see that happening given how they have "responded" or not responded, depending on your point of view.
Ultimately... considering past examples (I.E. DA2 and some of the major bugs in SWTOR) if Bioware can't make this right, or simply won't, they should just say that instead of stringing us along. If they did not acknowledge that there were major issues with the ending, or they felt their ending was perfect as they have said, then why are they releasing this extended cut?
I appreciate your position... I do... fans vent at you because you at least will respond in some manner. It is often times not what we want to hear or related to their initial rant if you will, but at least you respond. I give you more credit and respect than some others for doing that at least.

I don't believe it is so much what we think we deserve... it is more what Bioware led us to believe over the course of three games that our Shepard deserves.

Bitter sweet is one thing... just plain bitter is another animnal all together.

Anyway... again I appreciate your responses and will be caustiously optimistic for the DLC, but without major changes I would not be surprised to see many fans abandon Bioware after this.
Saddened... but not surprised.

[Embrosil]

Faust1979 wrote...
Why is there fan rage whenever a new Bioware game comes out?

Maybe because every new Bioware game is significantly worse than the previous one.

[Rabid Rooster]

Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.
And now people are angry at ME3.

The cycle will continue as long as people feel they have an inalienable right to never be disappointed, or that their money entitles them to be rude or condescending to others, or that their opinions are the only, best, or right ones.

Well as i remember when NWN came out it wasn't that it wasn't BG. It was because, like now the OC was not up to quality of the writing, story etc. that was in BG. I remeber one of the devs that worked on it saying something like this, (not a direct quote) " The OC was meant to be an example of what could be done with the Tool Set." Almost like it was an after thought after the tool set was made.

I dont remeber anyone saying that DA:Orgins wasn't like BG, If anything its the first fantasy game you guys have made that lived up to BG. Which is why DA 2 was not well recevied because it was a complete step backwards from an rpg to a action game.

Just my two cents.