713 réponses à ce sujet

[JediHealerCosmin]

A product is never perfect when it comes to video games.

Plus, it's pretty funny in some cases.

[batlin]

If the ending was at least half of what it was originally promised, no one would have ANYTHING to complain about in ME3.

People don't hate on Bioware games just because they're Bioware games. That's a really, really stupid idea.

[Kuari999]

Gigamantis wrote...

I'm not claiming to be in the majority; I'm claiming that neither of us really knows.  You're clinging to the most flawed method of analysis you can come up with to claim the majority here, and it's sad.  Come up with some real evidence or stop acting like you have answers. 

Actually, I'm looking at this from a variety of perspectives rather than assumption.  I can go into Game Stop, start a conversation about Mass Effect 3 and consistantly get an agreement about the problems of Mass Effect 3's ending.  What is a bit more inconsistant are thoughts on the whole Retake bit.

I can go to various places I visit online, even those completely unrelated to BioWare for the same result.

And the fact of the matter is, I HAVE done these things.  I've seen a consistency in responses that I've never seen before.  When I combine that with the scattered polls as well as the unity on the specific subject, the press interest, and all sorts of other factors?  Its pretty irresponsible to downplay it.  Its even more irresponsible to jump to the sort of conclusions you are that its all obviously faked.  The outside factors strongly imply that there may be some truth in the scattered polls.  You can't discount something because there's a CHANCE something can go wrong.  If there is no evidence that it has and outside factors point to similar results, then logic dictates that there has to be something to all this.

Here's also the big issue with your request for real evidence: When you're asking for people's views, the only way to collect them in any numeric sense is by polling.  Otherwise there is no other way to calculate it.  Polling exists purely for that reason, but there's a margin of error attached based on reliability.  This has long surpassed any realistic margin of error.

Fact of the matter is, gamers of all sorts end up visiting gaming sites whether they complain or not.  Its not going to be biased to the degree of posting a poll on a Democrat site if they like the Republican canidate.  Well, even there, you'd get a sample size of Democrat view, just like you get a sample size of BioWare fan views by going to a place like this.  This is where fans of all sorts gather, not just the loud obnoxious ones as some people oh so love to claim.

Modifié par Kuari999, 12 avril 2012 - 08:19 .

[Hyrist]

Sadly, the statments made by Woo has made me lose respect of the man. Combined with the fact that, BioWare is letting him speak on a 'personal level' given his responsibility as a moderator to essentially remain neutral and fair in discource really just lends more ammo to the idea that BioWare's moderator leanings are more harsh to critisim of their company than otherwise.

True or not, Woo has to understand that what he states is liable for such interpretations.


Also, as clarification, Mr. Woo. The decision to disagree with facts is, in fact, willful ignorance. There has been more uproar in this incident than there has been for any of BioWare's titles, ever. And it has far more to do with the fact that this time, the customers are in fact correct when they claim that BioWare falsely advertised their product.

Does the internet tend to fly off the handle? Yes. But that rule proves the exception, so to speak: There have been many calm, collected and unified methods of protest on top of your typical internet drama in the case of this fiasco. This go far beyond mere 'oh we can't please everyone', and hiding behind it is very bad business practice.

The fact that BioWare has launched Extended Cut alone in testament to the fact that this isn't your typical internet drama. The fact that the OP tries to lump this in with the rest of the 'internet rages' is just a way to undermine the real message here.

[aries1001]

As for BG1, I bought it with birthday money I had gotten from my father, I think in 1998 or in 1999. Mainly because I could control all 6 characters at once; I couldn't do this with the compettive product, Might and Magic IV (6). Also, a former co-worker of mine has spoken of the BG1 game with high regards. And since 1998, I have never looked back and been a fan of Bioware ever since. As other fans, I've looked like this   when Bioware became sold to EA (along with Pandemic, remember...)

However, people seem to have forgotten that Bioware's first game was a little game called Shattered Steel. It was as sort of mech-like game where you did battle against, I think, space monsters? Also, Bioware made MDK 2, a platformgame, before, I think, making BG1, or in between BG1 and BG2?

Don't you think the Shattered Steel fans were saddened, disappointed, and maybe just a bit angry that Bioware decided to make an rpg? And did you know (some do) that Baldur's Gate were not to be an epg at all at first? Ray M. and Greg Z., the two co-founders of Bioware pitched the idea of an RTS called Battleground Infinity to various publishers, Fearqus Urqhuart (sp?) of Black Isle/Interplay told them to make an rpg as there "were more money to be made here." As it stands, only the Infinity name survived in the Infinity Engine made using BG1, BG2, PS: Torment and the Icewind Dale games and Lionheart, I think.

As I've detailed in my first post way back on page 12 or 14, I think, I can pretty much remember the angry times and the resentments and yes - outright hate - for Bioware, the devs. at Bioware etc. etc. - whenever a new Bioware game came out. Stanly Woo remembers exactly how it was as do I. People complained about KOTOR for months, then they complained about I think Jade Empire, mostly because it came out on the original Xbox first before they've decided to make pc game. And then people complaint about a) it didn't have an inventory you couldn't pause the game and c) it was an action rpg. [Interestingly, Jade Empire is held in very high regard by a certain top boss at EA, the head honcho himself. mr. Riccitiello - therein, I likes most of the secret behind what made the DA2 team go anime in the art department in DA2, but I digress...].

And while Skyrim perhaps did not receieve the angry treatment that DA2 or ME3 had, let me tell you this: Oblivion recieved exactly the same fan rage, and angryness etc. that DA2 and ME3 did and does. And it went on for months; I think it first died down afther Shivering Isles were announced and released?

As for ME3 fanrage and angryness about the ending, I can clearly remember the forums a year ago. Exactly the game, people demanded to know what happened to do their hero of Kirkwall, people also felt that Bioware had lied to them about being able to change the fate of Kirkwall forever. [A certain man in the game must be the most patient man in Thedas, 7 years after we meet him in act1, he's still waiting to see the arch duke B) ]
 
Did the controversy back (in 2011) go on as long as this controversy - over the ending of ME3 - has been going on. Yes, it did. I think it first died down a bit about 2-3 months after DA2's release in March 2011. And then the first DLC, Legacy came, which was absolutely brilliant. And it showed that the DA2 team had listened, and understood what was wrong with the game from the fans viewpoint.

Also, it helped - as I've stated many times before - that the devs. took responsibility for what they did. And that David Gaider said straight out: "hey, this is our game, not yours. We will tell the story we wiant to tell. And if you're not happy with this, don't buy the game." Maybe not in those words, but the meaning was clearly the same. David Gaider as Lead Writer also rather quickly (I think 14 days or so after the game's release in March?) said something to the effects of "yes, we were rushed, we didnt have time to make the ending we wanted etc. etc. Mike Laidlaw said the same thing in interviews." Maybe not in thse words, but then again, the meaning was and is clear. Also Stanly Woo helped a lot to.
I've seen Stanley Woo's and David Gaider's posts over the years here, and while they botj camn be a bit direct and straighton, they've always been honest with us, the fans and forumites.

To be fair to the ME3 team, I think that's what happening them. They're trying to be honest and straight in their communications on these forums regarding ME3 and the endings. I've seen people making fun at Mr. Gamble's interview in which he states that the team is 'proud of what we've done with the ME3 game' and where he explains that (as I remember it): 'the team won't be changing the ending as much as clarifying what happened.' And that 'they did not expect this backlash' or words to that effect. And to me, this is exacly what is needed now: candid and open communications, both in interviews and with fans here on BSN or in other places and forums.

As for Bioware's interactions with its fans, I think maybe Bioware and EA needs to realize that the 16 or 20 year olds that played their games way in 1995-1999 or now adults that have careers, and who are in fact, doctors, teachers, social workers, engineers, software programmers, car mechanics etc. etc. And as such many os us (myself included) are adults now; many of us also work in professions (I'm a teacher) that require analytical skills. This means we're able to analyse and interpret a game ending from a contexual viewpoint e.g. does the game ending fit the rest of the game, how well does it reflect Commander Shepard's character etc. etc.
 
And from what I've read, seen and heard about the endings to ME3, people are mostly angry because they don't see how the endings fit into the game or the lore in the game or they don't feel that Commander Shepard (regardless if he theirs or Bioware) would just give up, as they see it, and let a let's face it - a starbrat - decide what he should do. And on top of this, not explaining well enough what the consequence of choosing door 1, 2 or 3 will be. Maybe the devs. have it all in their head like Mozart with his symphonies, but like with Mozart's symphonies, they need to write it down and present it to us, the fans, the gamers and players, in form tghat we can understand and recognize.

As told, I'm a teacher. And even know, it happens, evem after about 11 years of teaching, I take myself in thinking that my students should now this or understand this. Never assume this - neither as a teacher or a game developer. The endings to ME might make sense inside Casey Hudson's head because he, and Mac Walters, know what's really going on. Now please tell us, the fans, what's really going on as well. To me, the Extended Cut DLC has the chance of doing just this, but only if it includes gameplay as well as player agency - the hallmark of an rpg.

At the end of DA2, there was a boss battle, in fact, there were two battles. And you should think that people would be happy aabout this, not so. Because the one with Orsino did not make sense at all, not in the story, not in the lore, not within the game itself. The one with the big bad boss at the end was OK, it was challenging and fun . Why do I bring this up in DA2, because in the app Final Hours by Jeff Keighly? Mac Walters talkj about including a boss battle at the end of ME3; Casey Hudson and him start taling apparently and agree that an end boss would too 'video-gamey'. maybe so, but perhaps these conventions the game genres are there for a reason? Just maybe? perhaps? And if you decide to break them, you better have a very good reason to do so - and explain to the gamers that the endings go into new territory and are going to take a swing at rpg conventions because of this or that and for these reasons.

The DA2 team did a very good job at communicating why they needed to make Hawke a human male or female in terms of the game they've needed to make. And they also made a good job communicationg why the game ended the way it did. I'll suggest the ME3 team do something similar...without giving spoilers away of course...

edit:
layout

Modifié par aries1001, 12 avril 2012 - 08:49 .

[jbadm04]

Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.
And now people are angry at ME3.

The cycle will continue as long as people feel they have an inalienable right to never be disappointed, or that their money entitles them to be rude or condescending to others, or that their opinions are the only, best, or right ones.

well you need to know why there was rage and not just deny it...
if you dont follow your games from the very first step to the last, BW advertisment is as false as it can get... NWN was advertised as similar to BG, now why would a lot of people bicker about when it is not BG? You actualy should get the hint... and maybe learn? You run in the same problems over and over again... DAO is a full scale RPG AND... hint hint... it was advertised as some sort of BG... instead it was no longer in the Forgotten Reams but some BW own world.... huh gues who is to blame here? And then DA2... successor to DAO but a very tuned down RPG to suit "console" ? (thats actualy how a lot of friends see it)... it is no longer a "full scaled rpg"... gues who is to blame, the old customer who is upset, or bw? Same with ME... full scale RPG with some shooters elements (specialy the fights)... and ME2... full scale shooter with few RPG elements... just great?

BW decides the way a game goes but shouldnt wonder when a sequel is turned upside down, the old fans wont appreciate it... wonder how many hundred titles have to be released before the responsible people at BW get the hint.

Now lets look at ME3... you improved on the "shooter" elements, and you returned a bit of the "RPG" elements" (but way not enough). People seem to have loved the "large scale" exploration, but Mako controls were sloppy at best and the "mining" around the planets was bit of dull, but instead of improving it, you just get rid of it completely (during ME2), did you do anything for ME3? Not yet... DLC? Maybe, but right now, way too late... and then the Ending, you promise various ending that are not just "gate A B or C" and what do you deliver? Slooppy ending thats just like that: Gate A, B or C... and you wonder?

You know whats best with ME2? Best played as standalone game in the ME universe, not a contnuation of ME1-Shepard... and the same aplies to ME3. Just had a little chat with a couple of friends and we all agree, ME3 is best played as a standalone game, no decisions realy matter and if you start a new "protagonist" even the ending are something "stupid but at least a bit acceptable". Thats actualy quite sad.

Sorry to say, but this time you realy droped the ball BW :/.

Modifié par jbadm04, 12 avril 2012 - 08:51 .

[batlin]

Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.
And now people are angry at ME3.

Give. Me. A. Break.

Go to the DA:O Forums. Were people complaining about the game a year later? No. ME? No. KotOR? No. Your hypothesis falls flat anyway becuase nobody (and I mean nobody) complained that Baldur's Gate 2 wasn't Baldur's Gate 1.

Now let's look at what games have a good amount of vitriol. The hate lands squarely on DA2 and ME3. Neither are disliked because they "aren't like the previous game". They hate them for very, very specific reasons. Nor are they hated because Bioware's fanbase is growing. If Baldur's Gate 2 came out and it was of the same quality as DA2 or had the same ending as ME3, you better believe it'd have been sh*t on back then just as it is now.

Modifié par batlin, 12 avril 2012 - 08:51 .

[crazyrabbits]

aries1001 wrote...

This is true.

However, as someone who's been gaming for the past 18 years, this is the biggest backlash I've ever seen for a single game. The only thing that comes close is the controversy about Daikatana, way back in 1998(?), and that had more to do with the arrogant pre-release promises and constant delays.

I mean, the ending fiasco has been extensive covered by major news outlets, gaming blogs, newspapers and magazines. We've seen the price freefall in the span of a month - that's almost unheard of. Every day, I'm seeing another news story about something the company did wrong.

[Gigamantis]

Kuari999 wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

I'm not claiming to be in the majority; I'm claiming that neither of us really knows.  You're clinging to the most flawed method of analysis you can come up with to claim the majority here, and it's sad.  Come up with some real evidence or stop acting like you have answers. 

Actually, I'm looking at this from a variety of perspectives rather than assumption.  I can go into Game Stop, start a conversation about Mass Effect 3 and consistantly get an agreement about the problems of Mass Effect 3's ending.  What is a bit more inconsistant are thoughts on the whole Retake bit.

I can go to various places I visit online, even those completely unrelated to BioWare for the same result.

And the fact of the matter is, I HAVE done these things.  I've seen a consistency in responses that I've never seen before.  When I combine that with the scattered polls as well as the unity on the specific subject, the press interest, and all sorts of other factors?  Its pretty irresponsible to downplay it.  Its even more irresponsible to jump to the sort of conclusions you are that its all obviously faked.  The outside factors strongly imply that there may be some truth in the scattered polls.  You can't discount something because there's a CHANCE something can go wrong.  If there is no evidence that it has and outside factors point to similar results, then logic dictates that there has to be something to all this.

Here's also the big issue with your request for real evidence: When you're asking for people's views, the only way to collect them in any numeric sense is by polling.  Otherwise there is no other way to calculate it.  Polling exists purely for that reason, but there's a margin of error attached based on reliability.  This has long surpassed any realistic margin of error.

Fact of the matter is, gamers of all sorts end up visiting gaming sites whether they complain or not.  Its not going to be biased to the degree of posting a poll on a Democrat site if they like the Republican canidate.  Well, even there, you'd get a sample size of Democrat view, just like you get a sample size of BioWare fan views by going to a place like this.  This is where fans of all sorts gather, not just the loud obnoxious ones as some people oh so love to claim.

Going from forum to forum reading comments you would've seen the same consistency when reading opinions of Skyrim; I did and I have.  Forums have always been the primary outlet of people who are angry or disatisfied while the vast majority of players never bother to comment or even visit.   Forum communities generally range in the single thousands while active forum members are in the hundreds, and that's out of millions of people who purchase these games.  

These communities you visit in an attempt to get varied opinions are generally all the same people.  Forums always represent a serioius minority and they're also the only place where the discontent go to voice their opinions.  Even if we pretend all of these polls are completely spam free, 1 member 1 vote, the communities will always be hopelessly slanted towards the discontent. 

Sales are a far more accurate gauge than any poll you see on a forum. 

[KingJason13]

Because they've sucked for several games running now...

[Gigamantis]

batlin wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.
And now people are angry at ME3.

Give. Me. A. Break.

Go to the DA:O Forums. Were people complaining about the game a year later? No. ME? No. KotOR? No. Your hypothesis falls flat anyway becuase nobody (and I mean nobody) complained that Baldur's Gate 2 wasn't Baldur's Gate 1.

Now let's look at what games have a good amount of vitriol. The hate lands squarely on DA2 and ME3. Neither are disliked because they "aren't like the previous game". They hate them for very, very specific reasons. Nor are they hated because Bioware's fanbase is growing. If Baldur's Gate 2 came out and it was of the same quality as DA2 or had the same ending as ME3, you better believe it'd have been sh*t on back then just as it is now.

DA2 was disliked because it wasn't DA:O.  The many "specific reasons" listed were just ways DA2 wasn't like DA:O: It was linear and skimped on story and environment for combat focus.  ME3 is because of the ending, which is a comparably invalid reason to hate an entire game.  

The reason the hurt feelings are persisting is because Bioware is becoming higher-profile with each passing release.  It's easier to forget that you were angry when there aren't 10x as many people reminding you.

Modifié par Gigamantis, 12 avril 2012 - 09:06 .

[Kuari999]

Gigamantis wrote...
Going from forum to forum reading comments you would've seen the same consistency when reading opinions of Skyrim; I did and I have.  Forums have always been the primary outlet of people who are angry or disatisfied while the vast majority of players never bother to comment or even visit.   Forum communities generally range in the single thousands while active forum members are in the hundreds, and that's out of millions of people who purchase these games.  

These communities you visit in an attempt to get varied opinions are generally all the same people.  Forums always represent a serioius minority and they're also the only place where the discontent go to voice their opinions.  Even if we pretend all of these polls are completely spam free, 1 member 1 vote, the communities will always be hopelessly slanted towards the discontent. 

Sales are a far more accurate gauge than any poll you see on a forum. 

Yeah, lets just ignore the parts that weren't forum based, shall we?  Not to mention...  really?  You're assuming all the people on one forum are all the same on another?  Really?  Dear lord....  and I'm sorry, but I've seen plenty of communities that ranked games high.  If its slanted towards discontent, every game ever should always be rated as "it sucks" when asked about by the majority of the population.  Since it doesn't work that way, I'm forced to believe that you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Sales are rarely an accurate gauge for anything.  Okami for example.  Widely loved game by those who own it, almost no complaints...  failed miserably due to release timing.  Finding someone who hates Okami after playing it is not easy, I've found very very few.  I'm sorry, stuff like that proves your "discontent theory" wrong.  Brutally.  Dark Souls is another example.  Hard as hell, but people LOVE it left right and center to the point of getting a successful petition going to get it on the PC.

These things could NOT happen if the slant was always on discontent when it comes to the internet.

Modifié par Kuari999, 12 avril 2012 - 09:09 .

[crazyrabbits]

Gigamantis wrote...
The many "specific reasons" listed were just ways DA2 wasn't like DA:O: It was linear and skimped on story and environment for combat focus.  ME3 is because of the ending, which is a comparably invalid reason to hate an entire game.

LOL, that reminds me of when I used to check the Star Trek official message board (yes, Trekkie for life) every so often a few years back. The backlash that resulted from the final episode of Enterprise was insane. It pretty much destroyed the fanbase, caused the entire cast to trash it after the fact and led to the ST universe being rebooted a few years later.

Good times.

[EHondaMashButton]

Gigamantis wrote...

Sales are a far more accurate gauge than any poll you see on a forum. 

How are sales more accurate?  You don't reach the ending or form an opinion until you've already paid your money and its already been counted as a sale.    The first 2 weeks is marketing and preorders, the rest of it is reviews and word of mouth from friends & the internet.

[EwEs2]

I have great respect for Stanley Woo. Atleast he tries.

[Kuari999]

EHondaMashButton wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Sales are a far more accurate gauge than any poll you see on a forum. 

How are sales more accurate?  You don't reach the ending or form an opinion until you've already paid your money and its already been counted as a sale.    The first 2 weeks is marketing and preorders, the rest of it is reviews and word of mouth from friends & the internet.

Exactly...  shareholders and execs only care about sales because that's how they get their money, but shortsightedness by believing its the only thing(or even the main thing) that matters is risking the death of the business.  Reputation gains sales.  Betraying that reputation doesn't break initial sales, it risks future sales.

Modifié par Kuari999, 12 avril 2012 - 09:15 .

[batlin]

Gigamantis wrote...

DA2 was disliked because it wasn't DA:O.  The many "specific reasons" listed were just ways DA2 wasn't like DA:O: It was linear and skimped on story and environment for combat focus.  ME3 is because of the ending, which is a comparably invalid reason to hate an entire game.

People preferred DA:O because it is better pretty much all-around. DA2 could have been different and better, but of course all it was was the former.

The reason the hurt feelings are persisting is because Bioware is becoming higher-profile with each passing release.  It's easier to forget that you were angry when there aren't 10x as many people reminding you.

Nope. As soon as I reached the end of Act 2 in DA2 I knew I would be returning the game. Never even went on these boards until after I got halfway through Act 3 so I could bash the game.

Modifié par batlin, 12 avril 2012 - 09:14 .

[kbct]

Gigamantis wrote...

Forums have always been the primary outlet of people who are angry or disatisfied while the vast majority of players never bother to comment or even visit.

Then why did over 80% of the people like ME2 if everyone here is angry or dissatisfied?

[Naivor]

The trend to say that new Bioware games are bad started mostly after ME2, since people thought it didnt feature enough customization, which was one of the core elements until then for just about any BW game. You could customize your own Shepard, but your team members only had a few selectable color palettes at launch.

It only escalated when BW made the decision to go full frontal Day One DLC in case of Dragon Age 2, and escalated even further when people noticed that the game was supbar compared to it's predecessor, Dragon Age: Origins. Choices and acts from DAO only gave you a couple of sidequests with minimal exp, someone might mention the Warden (Leliana, Zevran) or you could read some highlights of your Wardens actions from books.
It was a disaster. It's normal for consumers to not trust the developer after that kind of disaster. Faults will be deliberately searched for, nitpicking will happen and players will refer to older titles, which we're more to their liking. You know, more focus on writing and roleplaying aspects instead of the modern focus, which is more towards combat and gameplay.

Rage and tears towards Mass Effect 3, as a more recent example, is understandable, even if it is highly overexaggarated most of the time. The game had decent gameplay, not counting the random dodgerolls Shepard would make for no obvious input from the player, and it had decent main storyline. What I've seen, players dont like how Shepard was apparently "stolen" from them, giving less control over your dialogue options (in fact, I've spent many a moments raging how my Lily/Bram Shepard would spout actual opinions on their own, with the game not even asking for my input.) Also, there's the normal raging about the endings, which are fairly justified.

I'm not going to say that it's a matter that can be easily summarized, like our friendly forum mod Stanley Woo attempted earlier, but it's understandable why people rage at new Bioware releases, or releases from other developers at that. Bad response sticks to a name much better than good response, and the difference between modern Bioware games and older Bioware games makes for a lot of bad feedback from the people who are used to the old mechanics.

[batlin]

crazyrabbits wrote...

LOL, that reminds me of when I used to check the Star Trek official message board (yes, Trekkie for life) every so often a few years back. The backlash that resulted from the final episode of Enterprise was insane. It pretty much destroyed the fanbase, caused the entire cast to trash it after the fact and led to the ST universe being rebooted a few years later.

Good times.

Well hey, at least old, out-of-shape Riker and Troi were in it to remind us of a way better Star Trek series.

[Gigamantis]

Kuari999 wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...
Going from forum to forum reading comments you would've seen the same consistency when reading opinions of Skyrim; I did and I have.  Forums have always been the primary outlet of people who are angry or disatisfied while the vast majority of players never bother to comment or even visit.   Forum communities generally range in the single thousands while active forum members are in the hundreds, and that's out of millions of people who purchase these games.  

These communities you visit in an attempt to get varied opinions are generally all the same people.  Forums always represent a serioius minority and they're also the only place where the discontent go to voice their opinions.  Even if we pretend all of these polls are completely spam free, 1 member 1 vote, the communities will always be hopelessly slanted towards the discontent. 

Sales are a far more accurate gauge than any poll you see on a forum. 

Yeah, lets just ignore the parts that weren't forum based, shall we?  Not to mention...  really?  You're assuming all the people on one forum are all the same on another?  Really?  Dear lord....  and I'm sorry, but I've seen plenty of communities that ranked games high.  If its slanted towards discontent, every game ever should always be rated as "it sucks" when asked about by the majority of the population.  Since it doesn't work that way, I'm forced to believe that you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Sales are rarely an accurate gauge for anything.  Okami for example.  Widely loved game by those who own it, almost no complaints...  failed miserably due to release timing.  Finding someone who hates Okami after playing it is not easy, I've found very very few.  I'm sorry, stuff like that proves your "discontent theory" wrong.  Brutally.  Dark Souls is another example.  Hard as hell, but people LOVE it left right and center to the point of getting a successful petition going to get it on the PC.

These things could NOT happen if the slant was always on discontent when it comes to the internet.

First, there's definitely a ton of cross-over between forum communities for games.  Second, niche games like Dark Souls have small communities and less complaining, but it's definitely there.  I'm also not saying that forums are all complainers, but that's definitely what forums attract in disproportionate numbers.  This is especially true with high-profile games.   

Some communities are worse than others and some games have bigger issues than others, but the slant on forums is always the same persistant negativity.  People are just far more likely to seek out a place to express themselves when they're angry.

Also, sales are the only real gauge of opinion, barring external circumstances that would drastically alter them.  Mass Effect 3 sold very well day 1 despite the ending leaking and the "fans" pre-emptively attacking the game on review sites.  The game has seen continued success and is the fastest selling game in Bioware's history.  If it were the majority of their MILLIONS of customers it would be hurting a lot more than it is. 

[Ramus Quaritch]

Stanley Woo wrote...

People got angry when NWN came out and it wasn't BG.
People got angry when KotOR came out because it was a console game.
People got angry when Jade Empire came out because it was a different setting, and it was an action RPG.
People got angry when Mass Effect came out because it was a shooter.
People got angry when Dragon Age: Origins came out because it wasn't BG.
People got angry when DA2 came out because it wasn't DAO.
People got angry when ME2 came out because it wasn't ME1.
And now people are angry at ME3.

I'm positive that the backlash to Mass Effect being a shooter, whatever it may have been, was far less than the backlash against DA2 and the backlash against the ending of ME3.  Also, Mass Effect was clearly advertised beforehand as having shooter elements.  I knew what kind of gameplay I was getting when I bought the game.  ME3, as the third game in the trilogy, was advertised as a game where your choices matter and lead to a wide variety of endings.  

According to Casey Hudson, "That actually will be our goal with the whole trilogy.  To take all of the things you've done in Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 and then just let it go.  Let it diverge into wildly different conclusions. That's the real fun of having played Mass Effect 1 and 2 and then going into the third one will be that you've set all of these things in motion and now we can let them diverge."

I appreciate the work you all have done on the trilogy.  I really do.  You've given me hundreds of hours of fun.   But I do not see how that ending can be justified as a good-quality or well-written ending at all.  Not when it contradicts the core of the trilogy, which is a rich story full of choices and consequences.  

[Gigamantis]

kbct wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Forums have always been the primary outlet of people who are angry or disatisfied while the vast majority of players never bother to comment or even visit.

Then why did over 80% of the people like ME2 if everyone here is angry or dissatisfied?

Give me the date and context of the poll and I'll tell you. 

[batlin]

Gigamantis wrote...

kbct wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Forums have always been the primary outlet of people who are angry or disatisfied while the vast majority of players never bother to comment or even visit.

Then why did over 80% of the people like ME2 if everyone here is angry or dissatisfied?

Give me the date and context of the poll and I'll tell you. 

Go to the Dragon Age: Origins forums. What percent of the users there are expressing hate for the game?