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[xsdob]

"The pattern has repeated itself more times than you can fathom. New titles rise, evolve, advance, and at the apex of their glory they are extinguished. Knights of the old Republic was not the first. It did not create the fanrage. It did not forge the forum hate. It mere found them - the legacy of my kind. "

-Atari, 1972.

Modifié par xsdob, 09 avril 2012 - 09:28 .

[GuyIncognito]

Anareth wrote...
Agreed. DA2 was decent, the plot wasn't nearly as good or as epic as the previous game, but then again that's what bioware was going for. Why, I have no idea but there it is.

Blastback wrote...
I'd say part of it has to do with a number of fans who want more games in the vein of Baldur's Gate and KotOR feeling ignored and abandoned.

I've tried breaking down why this opinion exists and what I believe is that it has to do with the Player / The Warden relationship in DA:O vs. a sort of Player / The Narrator relationship in DA2.

Implications from The Stargazer sequence would allude to the fact that a player did not pick up the fact that a player's playthroughs in ME trilogy was really just one long legend folk-lore that The Stargazer was telling this kid 10,000 years in the future, a story of "The Shepard."

I've looked at a handful of threads, and I keep seeing a commonality in how phrases are used. Specifically with the one where people state "My Shepard would do this / wouldn't do this." "This is not the ending that I wanted for My Shepard"

You go back to how BW phrases ME3, "This is the end of Shepard's Story." and not "This is the end of your Shepard's story."

-------------------------------------------

At the end of Fallout 1 where you finally make it back to Vault 13, you accomplished all of those wonderful things that resulted in the end, only to be exiled from the Vault by the Overseer because you've seen too much of the world and it would disrupt the society of the Vault if everyone knew what was outside. Would you have shot him before walking into the wastes? I sure as hell did. The ending sucks for The Wanderer, but you project yourself onto the character.

Modifié par GuyIncognito, 09 avril 2012 - 09:31 .

[kbct]

MortalEngines wrote...

kbct wrote...

Then where is the uproar over Skyrim? Where is the global media coverage of the backlash? Where are the official statements from the co-founder equivalent saying they'll alter their game?

Different fanbase. Bethesda fans in general tend not to get so annoyed and are alot more patient than the folks on BSN. And even then they get slammed from time to time. Or did you not see the slaughtering they got for all the bugs they have in the console games?

Every game is going to take some heat from their fans. Nothing new.

What is the new is the scale of backlash against ME3. It's is in a league of its own. The global media coverage alone is unprecedented. Other measure are off the charts too.

[Konane117]

LegendaryBlade wrote...



ME3 rage is from the most poorly written ending to a plot ever witnessed by mankind.

Quit exaggerating. Worst ending I've ever seen was FEAR 2...you get raped by a spiritual entity and end up impregnating her.

[AlanC9]

I don't see that at all, Kilshrek. I saw plenty of outright rage about DA2 after release, though there had been a long period of rising discontent pre-release . The main difference is that we saw a lot more destructive behavior with DA2 -- stuff like spamming the general discussion boards with thread titles designed to spoil all the plot points. And as a participant on both boards, I don't see any real difference in the levels of outrage.

I'm not sure the absence of a movement proves much. There wasn't anything to have a movement about, because everything that was wrong with DA2 was wrong throughout the entire game. Same thing with NWN's OC, which was also widely despised.

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 avril 2012 - 09:33 .

[MortalEngines]

simfamSP wrote...

Plus, most ES fans got what they wanted: another world to mess around with. BW games are more complex than that :-/

And no, don't accuse me of being arrogant. They are. Fact. Plus, BW fans are more passionate about their games. Really, you can see the difference. And I don't blame them. BW produce amazing games, and character wise? They are unmatched. They may not write the BEST plots, but they sure know how to make us fall in love with pixels.

Agreed, 100%. ES is all about immersion, graphics and gameplay. Where as Bioware is alot more story, dialogue and atmosphere based. Stuff like immersion, graphics and gameplay are alot less subjective than story, dialogue and atmosphere. 

And Bioware fans are definately more passionate, both a vice and a virtue unfortunately. They tend to put Bioware on a huge pedestal and rip them to shreds if they fall short. Imagine if Fable fans were like this. 

kbct wrote...
What is the new is the scale of backlash against ME3. It's is in a league of its own. The global media coverage alone is unprecedented. Other measure are off the charts too.

The scale is because a) there are more fans, ME brought in alot of people to the fanbase outside of the usual RPG fans BW fans are very passionate compared to others. If you have more fans, and they're more passionate, obviously the scale will increase. Only logicial.

Also Bioware is EA now, this brings the scale of things up. When you bring this together with ME3 not being stocked in GAME UK, of course it's going to be in the limelight. Not like there is much else to cover in this period of time, it's kinda dead space in terms of game releases (they're all coming in the summer).

Konane117 wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...



ME3 rage is from the most poorly written ending to a plot ever witnessed by mankind.

Quit exaggerating. Worst ending I've ever seen was FEAR 2...you get raped by a spiritual entity and end up impregnating her.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]

I will never forget that ending. EVER. <_<

Modifié par MortalEngines, 09 avril 2012 - 09:34 .

[spirosz]

Every game gets backlash, but with DA II, it seemed "out of place" for Bioware to release their product like that, when there was obvious signs of rushed elements from whatever exterior source (EA, haha).

So now comes ME3 and don't get me wrong, great game, but again - rushed with certain aspects/face import issues/ treatment of ME2 LI's/ stock photos/ the whole DLC fiasco. We're seeing a trend in their last two games, what's not stopping them from continuing down this path?

Their main problem is their PR bull****, look at how much positive reaction Weekes got with his "unofficial interview" from PAX, compared to their PR nonsense. I love BioWare and they have a tremendous team, but all this unnecessary garbage about artistic integrity and acting like critics are more important than fans, isn't helping them.

Modifié par spiros9110, 09 avril 2012 - 09:34 .

[Ethical]

Konane117 wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...



ME3 rage is from the most poorly written ending to a plot ever witnessed by mankind.

Quit exaggerating. Worst ending I've ever seen was FEAR 2...you get raped by a spiritual entity and end up impregnating her.

That's part 2 of a trilogy of games, this is the finale of a trilogy.

Imo DA2 hate wasn't as bad as ME3; the ME3 outrage seems to have more passion since there is a solution to it while for DA2 there was NO solution in sight short of scraping the whole thing and starting over from scratch.

[nazgul1x]

MortalEngines wrote...
 
And Bioware fans are definately more passionate, both a vice and a virtue unfortunately. They tend to put Bioware on a huge pedestal and rip them to shreds if they fall short. Imagine if Fable fans were like this......

Fable fans are used to the games not living up to the promises of Peter Molyneux.

[MortalEngines]

nazgul1x wrote...
Fable fans are used to the games not living up to the promises of Peter Molyneux.

My point was that, if Fable fans were as passionate as some people on BSN, imagine the uproar when Molyneux inevitably fails to live up to any of his promises. It would be like Armageddon. 

[Melra]

Konane117 wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...



ME3 rage is from the most poorly written ending to a plot ever witnessed by mankind.

Quit exaggerating. Worst ending I've ever seen was FEAR 2...you get raped by a spiritual entity and end up impregnating her.

It's not rape if both want it.

[MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES]

COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER.

[Wrex4Life]

DA 2 was different, it was the whole game that was awful not just the last 10 minutes

[The Razman]

There's fan-rage because Bioware have reached the stage where they have fanboys ... people who build up their expectation of their games to fever-pitch levels, far beyond anything that could be met in reality.

I feel a bit sad for these people, because nothing that their supposed favourite developer can make will ever be awesome again for them. It'll either be absolute garbage, despite being a perfectly average game, or it'll be average ... despite being a fantastic game.

[Awookie]

Each BW game adds something new.  Some people hate new features. 

I saw a thraed about how combat rolls and hitmarkers were stupid because it was from "CoD" 

I will admit that the ending and MP hate is valid.  Especially when MP is a microtransaction fest filled with teammates playing the class wrong, and random disconnects.  

Modifié par Awookie, 09 avril 2012 - 09:55 .

[MortalEngines]

Melrache wrote...

It's not rape if both want it.

Not to derail the topic, but I was under the distinct impression that Beckett didn't want Alma riding on him. Seeing as she's a creepy ass, nasty looking ghost thing that initially wanted to merge with him. 

[Lee T]

spiros9110 wrote...
Their main problem is their PR bull****, look at how much positive reaction Weekes got with his "unofficial interview" from PAX, compared to their PR nonsense. I love BioWare and they have a tremendous team, but all this unnecessary garbage about artistic integrity and acting like critics are more important than fans, isn't helping them.

Indeed, their PR departement is partly responsible for the scale the uproar reached. It's like everytime they wanted to extinguish the fire somebody gave them buckets of gasoline.

[Sanunes]

spiros9110 wrote...

Their main problem is their PR bull****, look at how much positive reaction Weekes got with his "unofficial interview" from PAX, compared to their PR nonsense. I love BioWare and they have a tremendous team, but all this unnecessary garbage about artistic integrity and acting like critics are more important than fans, isn't helping them.

I do agree that PR is a big part of the problem, but I also think its also the amount of information given out before the game is released.  I really don't think we need the amount of information we are given before the game is launched and it gives people more time to come to the wrong conclusion about what is being said.

[Bellendaine]

spiros9110 wrote...

Their main problem is their PR bull****, look at how much positive reaction Weekes got with his "unofficial interview" from PAX, compared to their PR nonsense. I love BioWare and they have a tremendous team, but all this unnecessary garbage about artistic integrity and acting like critics are more important than fans, isn't helping them.

Agreed!  I would just add, that as an actor and director (and therefore, an "artist" ... whatever that means), that he who lives by the critic, dies by the critic, so they'd best be wary.  I'll take a bad review from a "professional" critic and a packed house by an appreciative audience anyday over the reverse ... it actually happened on my last professional show.  One local critic hated my production, but we now hold the box office record for the theater where I staged it, 'cause audiences loved it.  Same with video games, I should think ...

Modifié par Bellendaine, 09 avril 2012 - 10:10 .

[Artemis_Entrari]

Faust1979 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

i did not see any large scale backlash with DAO....even the poo storm of DA2 wasn't as big as this

I thought the DA2 backlash was worse actually

How do you figure that?  Did the co-founder of BioWare have to issue a statement following DA2's release?  Did it's game producer have to issue a release?  Did numerous non-gaming publications pick up the story and run with it?

The backlash from ME3 far exceeds any of BioWare's previous games.  The only proof you need is the sheer publicity this received from all sorts of publications, gaming or otherwise.

Modifié par Artemis_Entrari, 09 avril 2012 - 10:13 .

[Nightwriter]

Every game yields criticism.

Can't recall us ever raising $80,000 in an effort to change an ending, though.