861 réponses à ce sujet

[Shaoken]

People side with the Geth over the Quarians because in both wars the Quarians were always the agressors, and the Quarians are trying to avoid owning up to their mistakes; in the first war the Quarians tried to kill all of the Geth to cover up the fact that they made an AI and were treating a self-aware race as slaves. At no point over the next 300 years did they ever admit that they were wrong to do so.

I was honestly disappointed there was no option to arrest the Admiralty board for violating Citadel law after it turned out they converted a lot of their shps into Dreadnaughts. That was my knee-jerk reaction after that and being fired upon while on that Dreadnaught and the fact that the Admiralty board put their entire species in danger by pulling them all into a war.

[wantedman dan]

4stringwizard wrote...

I didn't cede it, but it looks like you are.  But that's fine if you can't actually come up with an argument on your own.  

Ooh, a more advanced version of the "I'm rubber, you're glue" argument. Cute.

Considering you've explicitly agreed with what I just argued to Oleuq. Reading is your friend.

[Elite Midget]

G Kevin wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

A few points.

Some said Geth where open to diplomacy but never attempted to do it themselves.

That statement is wrong, the Geth tried many times to negociate with the Quarians and all attempts ended with the Quarians attacking them anyway, if you are at war and offer peace 100 times and 100 times you are refused and attacked then why bother?

The Geth tried for peace is the past and the Quarians never gave them the indication that peace was impossible, so the ball was on the Quarian side of the court.

I would never allow neither the Geth nor the Quarians to kill eachother, not if I can help it.

Also another thing some people got wrong is the timeline.

1895 is the start of the MW
1896 is the fall of Haestrom
1905 is the end of the war.
1905-1919 was the timeline in with Nazara made contact with the Geth (yes he made contact with them shortly after the morning war)
1920 the true Geth began to construct the super structure that would hold all of them (using the concept of the Reaper nation nazara spoke).

The Geth began to attack anyone that got close to the veil some decades after the War and the game points out that the only Geth around the veil where the heretics.

Another thing is that legion is sorry because the Geth ran to the reapers when they where about to lose the war, and he says they did it because they where stupid because most of them where destroyed and didn't know bether.

The organic equivalent of this would be to get Drugged/hyper drunk and wake up in a cheap hospital bed with one less liver.

So the rest of the Geth decided not to tell everyone that the heretics were the ones killing them all? What about the Geth on Tali's loyalty mission? Why did they not try to be peacefull, they flat out attacked once they became sentient.

No one would listen anyway. Sheperd was the first organic to not try and wipe out all Geth and taught Legion many things that he passed on to the rest of the Geth.

[Brosome]

Wow. So much hate here.

Now, if you'll excuse me...

I've got to go destroy the heretic base.....


.....FUR DURPLOMACY!

[Elite Midget]

Sparatus wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

The Geth are sentient. Just vecause they're not made of flesh and blood doesn't change that they are still a people. Leghion even becomes I and no longer We if you side with him. The Geth are evolving, just like organics, and gaining their own sense of self. If anything the Geth are the child race and the Quarians are the drunk and druggy abusive parents that wont pay child support.

This is literally the worst analogy ever.

Make a car analogy.

No. Cars aren't sentient. I'm not going to butter up my analogy just because you can't see the Geth as sentient beings and feel it's okay to wipe them out even though all the fault lies with the Quarians.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 10 avril 2012 - 12:26 .

[Ponei]

Pathero wrote...

Look we all know what is going to happen if we get peace with the Quarians and the Geth:

SCENE: A Prime is playing with some toy dinosaurs; A Tyrannosaurus Geth and a Taliceratops.
Prime: "I curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal."

 geth are cute when they're not hostile

[rex285]

4stringwizard wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Heretics served the Reapers, a minority. The rest stayed on their planet and fought the Reaper control. In ME3 they were forced to serve the Reapers due to Quarians threatening Genocide. The Quarians were at fault YET AGAIN.

They weren't forced.  THEY CHOSE.  They had other options.  They just didn't use them. 

/Logic

No, they were forced. The Quarians were threatening to wipe them out and Legion was captured and forced to feed information to push the Geth to join the Reapers. Had the Geth not obeyed the Quarians would have wiped them out.

They were not forced. They had a choice. If you believe turning to the Reapers when you're in a diffcult position is the right thing to do, then you're against everything Shepard stood for.

It's like saying I'm forced to set off a bomb in my school in order to escape a bunch of bullies.

You're not understanding anything. Let me try and speak in a manner that you will understand.

The Geth either joined the Reapers or get wiped out by the Reapers on one front and the Quarians on another. Than the Reapers wipe out the Quarians. They didn't want to die and didn't want to kill their creators. When they do kill their creators it was in self-defense yet again. The Quarians are just repeating their same dark history all over again.

They didn't have to side with the Reapers.  They could have fought them.  Heck, they could have even fled when the Quarians came.  But no, they chose to side with an evil entity.  Even if they couldn't have fled, it doesn't justify their actions. 

An analogy: say Russia was attacking the U.S (or whatever country you may belong to) and bent on destroying it.  Then out of the blue, an alien race descends on earth - and they're bent on wiping out humans everywhere.  However, they offer your country weapon technology that gives you a chance to fight off Russia IF you side with them.  Would you have sided with the aliens, knowing what their goal was?  

If your answer was yes, then I question your sense as a human. 

If the Russians continued to attack me, such as the Quarians did when the reapers invaded, then Yes i would because once Russia is dealt with I can unite with the rest of the world and use my new "toys" to fight off the aliens.

Your analogy was absolutely terrible...

Banana

Modifié par rex285, 10 avril 2012 - 12:51 .

[4stringwizard]

Elite Midget wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

They didn't have to side with the Reapers.  They could have fought them.  Heck, they could have even fled when the Quarians came.  But no, they chose to side with an evil entity.  Even if they couldn't have fled, it doesn't justify their actions. 

An analogy: say Russia was attacking the U.S (or whatever country you may belong to) and bent on destroying it.  Then out of the blue, an alien race descends on earth - and they're bent on wiping out humans everywhere.  However, they offer your country weapon technology that gives you a chance to fight off Russia IF you side with them.  Would you have sided with the aliens, knowing what their goal was?  

If your answer was yes, then I question your sense as a human. 

Are you slow? Do you not read ANYTHING? Even if the Geth fought the Reapers the Quarians were HELLBENT on destroying the Geth even with a Reaper invasion going on. The Quarians would have attacked the Geth while they fought the Reapers than get wiped out by the Reapers soon after once the Geth are gone. THe Geth had no choice because they feared for their lives. Also, as more Geth die the dumber they get and like some said it was like getting drunk. They couldn't think rational because their brain cells, units, were being mass destroyed forcing them in a corner trying to find a solution for their survival.

No, the Quarians were hell bent on getting their homeworld back.  Between getting their homeworld back without bloodshed, and getting back through war and sacrifice, I'm sure they would have chosen the former.  As for your last point, using that argument only then means that the Geth are untrustworthy and easily manipulated.  

And you still didn't answer my analogy.  What would you have done?  

[wantedman dan]

Olueq wrote...

The heretics ARE geth, they just have different views.. again, like the quarians. And I will say this one last time because you refuse to comprehend what Im saying. The quarians were FORCED to fight because they rely on eachother. You are still blaming all of them for the actions of a few (one actually, as gerrel was the only reason they stayed). The geth are NO different. Some of them joined the reapers (oh btw, ALL of them joined the second time, not just some).

It's because you've yet to make a rational point, lol, as I've noted throughout this thread.

I'll repeat since you don't seem to read what I say to you: Sorry for your luck, but conseqences matter. The glaring deficiencies in your strategy will ultimately catch up to you.

Nobody was forced to fight; they chose to. Everybody chose to. They could have left, but they didn't. Ergo, they chose to. 

The problem with you, methinks, is that you blatantly ignore context and rational thought when it seems to help your cause. 

[fr33stylez]

4stringwizard wrote...

I gotta say, their have been some great posts on both sides in this thread! I'm happy how it turned out. I honestly didn't expect there to be this many responses.

Agreed. Good thread.

I'm not mad at anyone in this thread - it's fine to have differing opinions!

Let's hope we continue to be civil.

[Russmandarin]

Who cares about the destruction of the geth? The Quarians can create them again if everyone in the galaxy is so broken up over it. Nothing is lost when they get killed along with the reapers. AI are created they are not a species that can die out

[wantedman dan]

fr33stylez wrote...

Let's hope we continue to be civil.

[Olueq]

wantedman dan wrote...

Olueq wrote...

The heretics ARE geth, they just have different views.. again, like the quarians. And I will say this one last time because you refuse to comprehend what Im saying. The quarians were FORCED to fight because they rely on eachother. You are still blaming all of them for the actions of a few (one actually, as gerrel was the only reason they stayed). The geth are NO different. Some of them joined the reapers (oh btw, ALL of them joined the second time, not just some).

It's because you've yet to make a rational point, lol, as I've noted throughout this thread.

I'll repeat since you don't seem to read what I say to you: Sorry for your luck, but conseqences matter. The glaring deficiencies in your strategy will ultimately catch up to you.

Nobody was forced to fight; they chose to. Everybody chose to. They could have left, but they didn't. Ergo, they chose to. 

The problem with you, methinks, is that you blatantly ignore context and rational thought when it seems to help your cause. 

oh my god, what DO they teach you in the US? How to not think?

Modifié par Olueq, 10 avril 2012 - 12:30 .

[Aramina]

G Kevin wrote...

Aramina wrote...


Geth that were being experimented on to find their weaknesses so more Geth could be wiped out. As far as I know, most people think defending yourself from experimentation and death isn't a crime. And Legion still helps you take the ship back if you bring him.

 We experiment on ourselves to find out weaknesses and strength. The Geth were not being tortured when they were experimented on. They woke up and started killing every non-synthetic being in their vicinity.

Why didn't Legion just tell the Geth to stop attacking? Why did the Geth attack Legion?

But the big difference in your scenario is that we are the ones choosing to do the experiments on our own people, and for our betterment instead of to find tactical weaknesses. And that is mostly done with their consent. If some alien race abducted humans and experimented on them without their consent, you can bet those humans would be pissed and do anything to get away.

Also as to why the Geth attaked Legion. The geth programs are still individuals and come up with their own ideas. Just look at Legion's quandry in his own loyalty mission...the programs inhabiting the same platform couldn't agree on what to do. The Geth on the quarian ship attack your crew regardless of who you bring. The most likely explanation is they see you as a threat to their survival, just as they saw the Quarians on the ship that were experimenting on them. And if Legion helps you, he is also a threat to their survival. Just because he's "one of them" doesn't mean they have the same ideas.

Modifié par Aramina, 10 avril 2012 - 12:34 .

[4stringwizard]

wantedman dan wrote...

Olueq wrote...

The heretics ARE geth, they just have different views.. again, like the quarians. And I will say this one last time because you refuse to comprehend what Im saying. The quarians were FORCED to fight because they rely on eachother. You are still blaming all of them for the actions of a few (one actually, as gerrel was the only reason they stayed). The geth are NO different. Some of them joined the reapers (oh btw, ALL of them joined the second time, not just some).

It's because you've yet to make a rational point, lol, as I've noted throughout this thread.

I'll repeat since you don't seem to read what I say to you: Sorry for your luck, but conseqences matter. The glaring deficiencies in your strategy will ultimately catch up to you.

Nobody was forced to fight; they chose to. Everybody chose to. They could have left, but they didn't. Ergo, they chose to. 

The problem with you, methinks, is that you blatantly ignore context and rational thought when it seems to help your cause. 

And the Geth CHOSE to side with the Reapers. 

[Elite Midget]

4stringwizard wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

They didn't have to side with the Reapers.  They could have fought them.  Heck, they could have even fled when the Quarians came.  But no, they chose to side with an evil entity.  Even if they couldn't have fled, it doesn't justify their actions. 

An analogy: say Russia was attacking the U.S (or whatever country you may belong to) and bent on destroying it.  Then out of the blue, an alien race descends on earth - and they're bent on wiping out humans everywhere.  However, they offer your country weapon technology that gives you a chance to fight off Russia IF you side with them.  Would you have sided with the aliens, knowing what their goal was?  

If your answer was yes, then I question your sense as a human. 

Are you slow? Do you not read ANYTHING? Even if the Geth fought the Reapers the Quarians were HELLBENT on destroying the Geth even with a Reaper invasion going on. The Quarians would have attacked the Geth while they fought the Reapers than get wiped out by the Reapers soon after once the Geth are gone. THe Geth had no choice because they feared for their lives. Also, as more Geth die the dumber they get and like some said it was like getting drunk. They couldn't think rational because their brain cells, units, were being mass destroyed forcing them in a corner trying to find a solution for their survival.

No, the Quarians were hell bent on getting their homeworld back.  Between getting their homeworld back without bloodshed, and getting back through war and sacrifice, I'm sure they would have chosen the former.  As for your last point, using that argument only then means that the Geth are untrustworthy and easily manipulated.  

And you still didn't answer my analogy.  What would you have done?  

That world was the Geths home as well, they couldn't just pack up everything and leave before the Reapers wiped them out or the Quarians got there. The Quarians agreessiveness lead to the Gath joining the Reapers. Had the Quarians focused on the Reapers, as Sheperd demanded in ME2, than the Geth would never have joined the Reapers. It was to preserve the Geth people that they joined, that is all.

[rex285]

Olueq wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Olueq wrote...

The heretics ARE geth, they just have different views.. again, like the quarians. And I will say this one last time because you refuse to comprehend what Im saying. The quarians were FORCED to fight because they rely on eachother. You are still blaming all of them for the actions of a few (one actually, as gerrel was the only reason they stayed). The geth are NO different. Some of them joined the reapers (oh btw, ALL of them joined the second time, not just some).

It's because you've yet to make a rational point, lol, as I've noted throughout this thread.

I'll repeat since you don't seem to read what I say to you: Sorry for your luck, but conseqences matter. The glaring deficiencies in your strategy will ultimately catch up to you.

Nobody was forced to fight; they chose to. Everybody chose to. They could have left, but they didn't. Ergo, they chose to. 

The problem with you, methinks, is that you blatantly ignore context and rational thought when it seems to help your cause. 

oh my god, what DO they teach you in the US?

Edited: I wasn't being civil. 

Modifié par rex285, 10 avril 2012 - 12:31 .

[Pathero]

Shaoken wrote...

People side with the Geth over the Quarians because in both wars the Quarians were always the agressors, and the Quarians are trying to avoid owning up to their mistakes; in the first war the Quarians tried to kill all of the Geth to cover up the fact that they made an AI and were treating a self-aware race as slaves. At no point over the next 300 years did they ever admit that they were wrong to do so.

I was honestly disappointed there was no option to arrest the Admiralty board for violating Citadel law after it turned out they converted a lot of their shps into Dreadnaughts. That was my knee-jerk reaction after that and being fired upon while on that Dreadnaught and the fact that the Admiralty board put their entire species in danger by pulling them all into a war.

First of all they tried to kill the Geth when they became sentient.  They never meant for them to become self aware.  I still don't 100% undertand why the council stood by and did nothing.

Second of all, the Quarians were exiled from the council and are no longer bound by the treaty of Firaxian which limits the number of dreadnaughts.  They broke no rules, except the one that says that fitting a big gun on a civillian ship does not make it a war ship.  It makes it a target.

[4stringwizard]

Olueq wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Olueq wrote...

The heretics ARE geth, they just have different views.. again, like the quarians. And I will say this one last time because you refuse to comprehend what Im saying. The quarians were FORCED to fight because they rely on eachother. You are still blaming all of them for the actions of a few (one actually, as gerrel was the only reason they stayed). The geth are NO different. Some of them joined the reapers (oh btw, ALL of them joined the second time, not just some).

It's because you've yet to make a rational point, lol, as I've noted throughout this thread.

I'll repeat since you don't seem to read what I say to you: Sorry for your luck, but conseqences matter. The glaring deficiencies in your strategy will ultimately catch up to you.

Nobody was forced to fight; they chose to. Everybody chose to. They could have left, but they didn't. Ergo, they chose to. 

The problem with you, methinks, is that you blatantly ignore context and rational thought when it seems to help your cause. 

oh my god, what DO they teach you in the US?

Please don't associate the rest of us with him.  

[G Kevin]

Elite Midget wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

A few points.

Some said Geth where open to diplomacy but never attempted to do it themselves.

That statement is wrong, the Geth tried many times to negociate with the Quarians and all attempts ended with the Quarians attacking them anyway, if you are at war and offer peace 100 times and 100 times you are refused and attacked then why bother?

The Geth tried for peace is the past and the Quarians never gave them the indication that peace was impossible, so the ball was on the Quarian side of the court.

I would never allow neither the Geth nor the Quarians to kill eachother, not if I can help it.

Also another thing some people got wrong is the timeline.

1895 is the start of the MW
1896 is the fall of Haestrom
1905 is the end of the war.
1905-1919 was the timeline in with Nazara made contact with the Geth (yes he made contact with them shortly after the morning war)
1920 the true Geth began to construct the super structure that would hold all of them (using the concept of the Reaper nation nazara spoke).

The Geth began to attack anyone that got close to the veil some decades after the War and the game points out that the only Geth around the veil where the heretics.

Another thing is that legion is sorry because the Geth ran to the reapers when they where about to lose the war, and he says they did it because they where stupid because most of them where destroyed and didn't know bether.

The organic equivalent of this would be to get Drugged/hyper drunk and wake up in a cheap hospital bed with one less liver.

So the rest of the Geth decided not to tell everyone that the heretics were the ones killing them all? What about the Geth on Tali's loyalty mission? Why did they not try to be peacefull, they flat out attacked once they became sentient.

No one would listen anyway. Sheperd was the first organic to not try and wipe out all Geth and taught Legion many things that he passed on to the rest of the Geth.

We don't know that. The Geth could have easily uploaded themselves away and escaped. They chose to fight.

[wantedman dan]

4stringwizard wrote...

And the Geth CHOSE to side with the Reapers. 

Which is included in that logic; that's why I explicitly said everybody. Not just the Quarians or the Geth.

Reading is still your friend.

[Elite Midget]

[quote]Aramina wrote...

[quote]G Kevin wrote...

[quote]Aramina wrote...

[/quote]

Geth that were being experimented on to find their weaknesses so more Geth could be wiped out. As far as I know, most people think defending yourself from experimentation and death isn't a crime. And Legion still helps you take the ship back if you bring him.

[/quote]

 We experiment on ourselves to find out weaknesses and strength. The Geth were not being tortured when they were experimented on. They woke up and started killing every non-synthetic being in their vicinity.

Why didn't Legion just tell the Geth to stop attacking? Why did the Geth attack Legion?[/quote]

But the big difference in your scenario is that we are the ones choosing to do the experiments on our own people, and for our betterment instead of to find tactical weaknesses. And that is mostly done with their consent. If some alien race abducted humans and experimented on them without their consent, you can bet those humans would be pissed and do anything to get away.

Also as to why the Geth attaked Legion. The geth programs are still individuals and come up with their own ideas. Just look at Legion's quandry in his own loyalty mission...the programs inhabiting the same platform couldn't agree on what to do. The Geth on the quarian ship attack your crew regardless of who you bring. The most liekly explanation is they see you as a threat to their survival, just as they saw the Quarians on the ship that were experimenting on them. And if Legion helps you, he is also a threat to their survival. Just because he's "one of them" doesn't mean they have the same ideas.

[/quote]

Weak arguement. We don't capture people and experiement on them against their will or chop off body parts on a still living sentient being just to see how they tick.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 10 avril 2012 - 12:31 .