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[D4rkSektor]

I do think that attacking the Geth is wrong, but it's not black and white like many people here seem to think it is. Consider the following: your people were decimated in a war against the Geth and were forced from their home world.

You spend the next 300 years roaming the stars aboard ships and are painted as the galaxy's beggars and thieves and continually discriminated against. The time aboard the starships has also rendered your immune systems virtually useless, confining everyone to suits for their entire lives and making simple pleasures impractical at best.

Meanwhile, the Geth are seemingly hostile and highly territorial. All efforts to make contact with the Geth beyond the Perseus Veil have been met with death and destruction. Peace is seemingly impossible at this point.

All of the discrimination, desperation (especially with the Reapers beginning their attack), and apparent impossibility of peace lead to the Quarians attempting to take back their home world with force.

It does not make their attack right, but it is understandable and it does make it excusable as long as they were able to make peace with each other in the end. Genocide is never right, no matter what.

Modifié par D4rkSektor, 10 avril 2012 - 01:37 .

[Skull Bearer]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

So let's take the Peace option off the table. You have to make a choice. Do you choose to let the Quarians die, or do you choose to let the Geth die?

Perhaps we don't like the Quarians because they represent the way humans behave toward one another. In the middle of a global crisis is the perfect time for one group to attack another. The Quarians had a brief window of technological advantage to get their homeworld back so they took it. Tali's father's research that Xen got hold of paid off for them here, so they attacked and they were winning until the Geth got aid from the Reapers.

So Shepard is sent in to secure the Quarian fleet for the Alliance. This meant aid the Quarians in defeating the Geth. Then you find they Geth have been hacked yet again. Then you find your friend Legion has run times of the "old machines" in it. Then you find your friend who said "Geth want to build their own future" now want to use the code from the "old machines" to give themselves true AI.

Then you still don't know if the new group of individual AI Geth will be hostile to the Quarians or not, or if you'll see both groups annihilate each other. That was a possibility, too, although that was not presented in the game -- you'd only know that if you read the spoiler forums or had read a walk through.

So you have to make a choice. Either one or the other. No peace option available. Who do you pick? Man or Machine? That was basically he choice.

War is an ugly thing.

You know it is a peculiar thing that people here can suddenly get a case of morals about the Geth after Shepard already killed 330,000 Batarians pretty much for less than a six month delay in an attack on earth by destroying a mass relay, yet seem fine with Shepard getting off with less than a slap on the wrist because the "glove didn't fit." Isn't that genocide as well? I know. "But they're Batarians who take slaves!"

I think the difference is that if Shepard had done nothing the Batarians would have been Reaper toast anyway.

[G Kevin]

tybbiesniffer wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

You know it is a peculiar thing that people here can suddenly get a case of morals about the Geth after Shepard already killed 330,000 Batarians pretty much for less than a six month delay in an attack on earth by destroying a mass relay, yet seem fine with Shepard getting off with less than a slap on the wrist because the "glove didn't fit." Isn't that genocide as well? I know. "But they're Batarians who take slaves!"

Good point.  Unfortunately, if we played Arrival, we had no choice but to do it (literally, there was no other option). We can't really debate a choice that we didn't have.  It would've been an interesting discussion though if we had had a choice.

Exactly my point.

[Aramina]

G Kevin wrote...


I know, it just seems like all this discussion ever winds down to is just arguments from both sides not discussions.

Again to be fair, the Geth were trying to kill everyone a few minutes ago so...

I agree, and it's a shame that we can't have more discussions rather than arguments. For the record, I've enjoyed this discussion with you. It helps me really think about my motivations when I have to defend them to someone else.

And yes, they were indeed trying to kill everyone a few moments before. And Legion himself does say that the Geth don't trust the Quarians, so if their roles had been reversed, a Geth probably would have pointed his gun at a Quarian. Hmm....what is the quarian equivalent of a Prime? I just got a mental image of a giant quarian with an army of drones behind them

[Aramina]

G Kevin wrote...

tybbiesniffer wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

You know it is a peculiar thing that people here can suddenly get a case of morals about the Geth after Shepard already killed 330,000 Batarians pretty much for less than a six month delay in an attack on earth by destroying a mass relay, yet seem fine with Shepard getting off with less than a slap on the wrist because the "glove didn't fit." Isn't that genocide as well? I know. "But they're Batarians who take slaves!"

Good point.  Unfortunately, if we played Arrival, we had no choice but to do it (literally, there was no other option). We can't really debate a choice that we didn't have.  It would've been an interesting discussion though if we had had a choice.

Exactly my point.

Hopefully not the discussion of "Should we tell the colony or not". "Should we destroy the Mass Relay or not" is a more interesting one IMO. I think it would be very tough to make a decision like that.

Edit: Apologies for the double posting, the board slowed down suddenly

Modifié par Aramina, 10 avril 2012 - 01:43 .

[G Kevin]

Aramina wrote...

G Kevin wrote...


I know, it just seems like all this discussion ever winds down to is just arguments from both sides not discussions.

Again to be fair, the Geth were trying to kill everyone a few minutes ago so...

I agree, and it's a shame that we can't have more discussions rather than arguments. For the record, I've enjoyed this discussion with you. It helps me really think about my motivations when I have to defend them to someone else.

And yes, they were indeed trying to kill everyone a few moments before. And Legion himself does say that the Geth don't trust the Quarians, so if their roles had been reversed, a Geth probably would have pointed his gun at a Quarian. Hmm....what is the quarian equivalent of a Prime? I just got a mental image of a giant quarian with an army of drones behind them

I am enjoying this discussion as well and thank you for keeping this civil. 

Quarian equivalent of a prime eh? I am picturing something akin to an combat drones shaped into an Atlas 

[Freckle Face]

Well barring the best choice (forge an alliance between the Quarians and Geth), I went with the Quarians on my first playthrough. I would probably do so again, knowing the outcome of the Destroy ending, if I had to only pick one race.

But if I were to choose my favorite race, between the Quarians and the Geth, I'd probably choose the Geth. Because I would romance Legion if I could.*

*only partially kidding

[Aramina]

G Kevin wrote...

Aramina wrote...

G Kevin wrote...


I know, it just seems like all this discussion ever winds down to is just arguments from both sides not discussions.

Again to be fair, the Geth were trying to kill everyone a few minutes ago so...

I agree, and it's a shame that we can't have more discussions rather than arguments. For the record, I've enjoyed this discussion with you. It helps me really think about my motivations when I have to defend them to someone else.

And yes, they were indeed trying to kill everyone a few moments before. And Legion himself does say that the Geth don't trust the Quarians, so if their roles had been reversed, a Geth probably would have pointed his gun at a Quarian. Hmm....what is the quarian equivalent of a Prime? I just got a mental image of a giant quarian with an army of drones behind them

I am enjoying this discussion as well and thank you for keeping this civil. 

Quarian equivalent of a prime eh? I am picturing something akin to an combat drones shaped into an Atlas 

That would be seriously awesome. An Atlas-type mech with a Quarian pilot. I'm imagining it as a lot more graceful-looking than an Atlas. Bioware, please make it so!

[G Kevin]

Aramina wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

Aramina wrote...

G Kevin wrote...


I know, it just seems like all this discussion ever winds down to is just arguments from both sides not discussions.

Again to be fair, the Geth were trying to kill everyone a few minutes ago so...

I agree, and it's a shame that we can't have more discussions rather than arguments. For the record, I've enjoyed this discussion with you. It helps me really think about my motivations when I have to defend them to someone else.

And yes, they were indeed trying to kill everyone a few moments before. And Legion himself does say that the Geth don't trust the Quarians, so if their roles had been reversed, a Geth probably would have pointed his gun at a Quarian. Hmm....what is the quarian equivalent of a Prime? I just got a mental image of a giant quarian with an army of drones behind them

I am enjoying this discussion as well and thank you for keeping this civil. 

Quarian equivalent of a prime eh? I am picturing something akin to an combat drones shaped into an Atlas 

That would be seriously awesome. An Atlas-type mech with a Quarian pilot. I'm imagining it as a lot more graceful-looking than an Atlas. Bioware, please make it so!

I was going to say as a Killstreak but ummm.... Wrong game. 

[Aramina]

G Kevin wrote...

Aramina wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

Aramina wrote...

G Kevin wrote...


I know, it just seems like all this discussion ever winds down to is just arguments from both sides not discussions.

Again to be fair, the Geth were trying to kill everyone a few minutes ago so...

I agree, and it's a shame that we can't have more discussions rather than arguments. For the record, I've enjoyed this discussion with you. It helps me really think about my motivations when I have to defend them to someone else.

And yes, they were indeed trying to kill everyone a few moments before. And Legion himself does say that the Geth don't trust the Quarians, so if their roles had been reversed, a Geth probably would have pointed his gun at a Quarian. Hmm....what is the quarian equivalent of a Prime? I just got a mental image of a giant quarian with an army of drones behind them

I am enjoying this discussion as well and thank you for keeping this civil. 

Quarian equivalent of a prime eh? I am picturing something akin to an combat drones shaped into an Atlas 

That would be seriously awesome. An Atlas-type mech with a Quarian pilot. I'm imagining it as a lot more graceful-looking than an Atlas. Bioware, please make it so!

I was going to say as a Killstreak but ummm.... Wrong game. 

CoD reference? I never played pvp in that game...something about "OMG you're female! And you play video games!" Makes me shy away from anything that requires speaking out loud to other gamers . Besides, I'm silly and feel bad for people I kill. I much prefer ME3-style co-op games.

[tybbiesniffer]

Aramina wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

tybbiesniffer wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

You know it is a peculiar thing that people here can suddenly get a case of morals about the Geth after Shepard already killed 330,000 Batarians pretty much for less than a six month delay in an attack on earth by destroying a mass relay, yet seem fine with Shepard getting off with less than a slap on the wrist because the "glove didn't fit." Isn't that genocide as well? I know. "But they're Batarians who take slaves!"

Good point.  Unfortunately, if we played Arrival, we had no choice but to do it (literally, there was no other option). We can't really debate a choice that we didn't have.  It would've been an interesting discussion though if we had had a choice.

Exactly my point.

Hopefully not the discussion of "Should we tell the colony or not". "Should we destroy the Mass Relay or not" is a more interesting one IMO. I think it would be very tough to make a decision like that.

Edit: Apologies for the double posting, the board slowed down suddenly

Oh, I agree.  I wish we could have had the option to save the colony.  I liked the human-batarian dynamic and wish we could have seen more of it.  The batarians were my favorite antagonists (moreso in ME1, I suppose).

[Crazyjeffy]

Why are people saying "the Quarians" when it's only the admiralty board in charge of stuff like that?

Gerrel is a bosh'tet
Xen is a bosh'tet
Raan is an indecisive bosh'tet

Zaal'koris and Tali are the ones with the sense and they're outnumbered 2 to 3. Those are the only quarians we get to see besides Reegar, Lia'vel, Veetor, the guy at Ken's, and the nameless extras in some scenes in ME2. And guess how big their roles were?

People keep generalizing the quarians. That's like people judging the UK based on parliament.

[G Kevin]

Aramina wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

Aramina wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

Aramina wrote...

G Kevin wrote...


I know, it just seems like all this discussion ever winds down to is just arguments from both sides not discussions.

Again to be fair, the Geth were trying to kill everyone a few minutes ago so...

I agree, and it's a shame that we can't have more discussions rather than arguments. For the record, I've enjoyed this discussion with you. It helps me really think about my motivations when I have to defend them to someone else.

And yes, they were indeed trying to kill everyone a few moments before. And Legion himself does say that the Geth don't trust the Quarians, so if their roles had been reversed, a Geth probably would have pointed his gun at a Quarian. Hmm....what is the quarian equivalent of a Prime? I just got a mental image of a giant quarian with an army of drones behind them

I am enjoying this discussion as well and thank you for keeping this civil. 

Quarian equivalent of a prime eh? I am picturing something akin to an combat drones shaped into an Atlas 

That would be seriously awesome. An Atlas-type mech with a Quarian pilot. I'm imagining it as a lot more graceful-looking than an Atlas. Bioware, please make it so!

I was going to say as a Killstreak but ummm.... Wrong game. 

CoD reference? I never played pvp in that game...something about "OMG you're female! And you play video games!" Makes me shy away from anything that requires speaking out loud to other gamers . Besides, I'm silly and feel bad for people I kill. I much prefer ME3-style co-op games.

I used to be a CoD fan. Ever since CoD 4 after finishing off the Halo trilogy. I was I think 13 at the time so everyone kept calling me a girl for my voice (They sounded like that too ). I did not mind killing people at the time because it was war game and I was naive. Now I can't play a game that actively encourages killing others for the sake of killing them. Plus, the Xbox live community is very immature lately.

Became a mass effect fan because it was the only game that I can play without thinking about what it is. A game. I can see more than the codes running in the background making things happen. I wish the this game didn't end on such a sour note. I really wanted to play the trilogy again and tell everyone I knew how awesome mass effect was. I wanted my childhood back... 

[Aramina]

tybbiesniffer wrote...


Oh, I agree.  I wish we could
have had the option to save the colony.  I liked the human-batarian
dynamic and wish we could have seen more of it.  The batarians were my
favorite antagonists (moreso in ME1, I suppose).

I
will admit I didn't like the batarians very much, but then all we'd
seen of them up to that point was mercs. Even so, I would have loved to
have been able to warn them. Might have gone a long way to some sort of
friendly dialogue between the two races.

Am I the only one who loved the conversation in ME3 between the human and batarian refugees?

"Nail a few Reapers for me."
"Right between the eyes, my friend."

[tractrpl]

Crazyjeffy wrote...

Why are people saying "the Quarians" when it's only the admiralty board in charge of stuff like that?

Gerrel is a bosh'tet
Xen is a bosh'tet
Raan is an indecisive bosh'tet

Zaal'koris and Tali are the ones with the sense and they're outnumbered 2 to 3. Those are the only quarians we get to see besides Reegar, Lia'vel, Veetor, the guy at Ken's, and the nameless extras in some scenes in ME2. And guess how big their roles were?

People keep generalizing the quarians. That's like people judging the UK based on parliament.

Why generalize the Geth. To me, choosing between the quarian and the geth is unacceptable. I knew that from the beginning and is why I did my best to make sure such a decision would never be necessary. However, if Han Garrel truly fired on the Geth no matter what I did, I would order the Normandy to fire on HIM.  It might end with the quarians going extinct, but that would be their choice, not mine.

[tractrpl]

More precisely, it would be Han Garrel's. I'm pretty sure if I just killed Han Garrel and Xen, the rest of the quarians would shut up and stop their stupid war.

[UrgentArchengel]

It's like the classic Frankenstein Story. I am too tired to really delve into it, but that is ow I look at it.
Quarians=Doc Frank.
Geth=The creation

[Aramina]

G Kevin wrote...


I used to be a CoD fan. Ever since CoD 4 after finishing off the Halo trilogy. I was I think 13 at the time so everyone kept calling me a girl for my voice (They sounded like that too ). I did not mind killing people at the time because it was war game and I was naive. Now I can't play a game that actively encourages killing others for the sake of killing them. Plus, the Xbox live community is very immature lately.

Became a mass effect fan because it was the only game that I can play without thinking about what it is. A game. I can see more than the codes running in the background making things happen. I wish the this game didn't end on such a sour note. I really wanted to play the trilogy again and tell everyone I knew how awesome mass effect was. I wanted my childhood back... 

I used to play a pvp game a while back. Wasn't on xbox live, but it was a bit sad seeing the server turn from generally fun people to a bunch of immature brats. Wish I could turn the clock back about 5 years...those were good times.

was trying to convince a friend to play the series when ME3 came out. Now I'm trying to decide if it's worth it.

Modifié par Aramina, 10 avril 2012 - 02:00 .

[G Kevin]

tractrpl wrote...

More precisely, it would be Han Garrel's. I'm pretty sure if I just killed Han Garrel and Xen, the rest of the quarians would shut up and stop their stupid war.

That's exactly what I've been trying to say. It it weren't for those two, the Quarians would not have gone to war.

[Crazyjeffy]

tractrpl wrote...

Crazyjeffy wrote...

Why are people saying "the Quarians" when it's only the admiralty board in charge of stuff like that?

Gerrel is a bosh'tet
Xen is a bosh'tet
Raan is an indecisive bosh'tet

Zaal'koris and Tali are the ones with the sense and they're outnumbered 2 to 3. Those are the only quarians we get to see besides Reegar, Lia'vel, Veetor, the guy at Ken's, and the nameless extras in some scenes in ME2. And guess how big their roles were?

People keep generalizing the quarians. That's like people judging the UK based on parliament.

Why generalize the Geth. To me, choosing between the quarian and the geth is unacceptable. I knew that from the beginning and is why I did my best to make sure such a decision would never be necessary. However, if Han Garrel truly fired on the Geth no matter what I did, I would order the Normandy to fire on HIM.  It might end with the quarians going extinct, but that would be their choice, not mine.

The Geth aren't a cultural, political people. They dont' socialize. They don't know what it's like to be alive. No one can generalize them because they're already generalized. The whole thing with the consensus, every geth sharing information, none of them having individual thoughts... they're not a people. They're a bunch of robots. Literally.

[G Kevin]

Aramina wrote...

G Kevin wrote...


I used to be a CoD fan. Ever since CoD 4 after finishing off the Halo trilogy. I was I think 13 at the time so everyone kept calling me a girl for my voice (They sounded like that too ). I did not mind killing people at the time because it was war game and I was naive. Now I can't play a game that actively encourages killing others for the sake of killing them. Plus, the Xbox live community is very immature lately.

Became a mass effect fan because it was the only game that I can play without thinking about what it is. A game. I can see more than the codes running in the background making things happen. I wish the this game didn't end on such a sour note. I really wanted to play the trilogy again and tell everyone I knew how awesome mass effect was. I wanted my childhood back... 

I used to play a pvp game a while back. Wasn't on xbox live, but it was a bit sad seeing the server turn from generally fun people to a bunch of immature brats. Wish I could turn the zclock back about 5 years...those were good times.

was trying to convince a friend to play the series when ME3 came out. Now I'm trying to decide if it's worth it.

I say wait until all this gets sorted out. If all goes well, it would be worth the wait.

[tybbiesniffer]

Crazyjeffy wrote...

Why are people saying "the Quarians" when it's only the admiralty board in charge of stuff like that?

Gerrel is a bosh'tet
Xen is a bosh'tet
Raan is an indecisive bosh'tet

Zaal'koris and Tali are the ones with the sense and they're outnumbered 2 to 3. Those are the only quarians we get to see besides Reegar, Lia'vel, Veetor, the guy at Ken's, and the nameless extras in some scenes in ME2. And guess how big their roles were?

People keep generalizing the quarians. That's like people judging the UK based on parliament.

I agree.  But we have no choice but to generalize; our opinions are limited by our knowledge/experience.  Of all of the quarians, the only one I liked was Kal'Reegar so I can only infer that I don't like most quarians.  The quarian I know the best, Tali, I don't like at all. 

Maybe I'm using "like" in the wrong way.  I don't like quarians because I don't respect them or their culture; it's hard to like someone I can't respect.

[WarChicken78]

I love them both (Kelly does too btw - and varren)

That's why I can't even imagine playing this game without an ME2 import.
So far I could broker last second peace both times, alas I havent imported my renegade Shep, yet.

[G Kevin]

tybbiesniffer wrote...

Crazyjeffy wrote...

Why are people saying "the Quarians" when it's only the admiralty board in charge of stuff like that?

Gerrel is a bosh'tet
Xen is a bosh'tet
Raan is an indecisive bosh'tet

Zaal'koris and Tali are the ones with the sense and they're outnumbered 2 to 3. Those are the only quarians we get to see besides Reegar, Lia'vel, Veetor, the guy at Ken's, and the nameless extras in some scenes in ME2. And guess how big their roles were?

People keep generalizing the quarians. That's like people judging the UK based on parliament.

I agree.  But we have no choice but to generalize; our opinions are limited by our knowledge/experience.  Of all of the quarians, the only one I liked was Kal'Reegar so I can only infer that I don't like most quarians.  The quarian I know the best, Tali, I don't like at all. 

Maybe I'm using "like" in the wrong way.  I don't like quarians because I don't respect them or their culture; it's hard to like someone I can't respect.

True. This whole issue can be simplified to whether you like the Quarians/Geth. That's what saddens me.