861 réponses à ce sujet

[DennyHoffmann]

Geth can't be killed, because Geth never was alive.

They are robots, intelligent or not, full evolved or not. I would never choose then over the Quarians, it's illogical to murder an entire race for the sake of machines. Doing so almost make the Reapers sound right for killing organics. And the Geth proved manytimes to be unworthy of trust, and in the end when you choose to save the Quarians Legion gives you the final proof of what the Geth really are: they are willing to kill everyone and everything the threatens their existence.

[tractrpl]

It's ludicrous that the game suggest that you have to choose "either the quarians or the geth". Why not just defend the geth from aggressive quarians? Just because I don't want the geth to be destroyed from that **** Garrel doesn't mean I want to "chose" the quarians over the geth. I'd defend the geth against Garrel, but if the quarians decide that they'd rather die than not exterminate the geth, then so be it. As it was, it's not an issue in my game. There may be drama, but in no way would I have to choose between quarian or geth genocide.

[tractrpl]

Calinstel wrote...

I chose peace as it was the only correct answer due to BioWares (incompetence/design).

The quarians attacked because, and this was mentioned, their ships were starting to fail. They NEEDED their world back to just survive in the long term.
The geth knew that the quarians wanted their homeworld back yet even in the face of destruction, they chose to ally with the Reapers instead of just leaving Rannoch. A planet that they did not even inhabit.
Many here reference the vids that Legion shows Shepard as proof that the geth did no wrong. Later, Legion admits to having Reaper code within itself. This gave me cause to rethink what it had shown. Was it all the truth or was something left out from Legions show. A show carefully orchestrated to ensure my Shepard felt empathy toward his race.
Also, many users seem to brush aside the concept of quarian children. Out of a race of ~15 billion quarians, at least 2 billion were children. From teens all the way down to newborns. The quarian haters must relish the though of a geth platform stomping through a nursery.
The quarians were wrong but, so were the geth.
Giving both races a chance is the only viable option.

Good night.

EXACTLY.  If it came to it, and I couldn't do peace, then my choice would be to let those idiots destroy each other.

[wantedman dan]

Sparatus wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

I found it perplexing as to the radical character shifts of Han'Gerrel and Zaal'Koris.

Gerrel was always a warmonger. Just because he treated Shepard and Tali decently in Mass Effect 2 didn't change that.

Similiary, Koris was an ass. But he always advocated peace or leaving the geth alone.

They didn't really change.

Hmm. Fair point; I just wasn't expecting such a radical shift of demeanor.

[hexediter]

DennyHoffmann wrote...

Geth can't be killed, because Geth never was alive.

They are robots, intelligent or not, full evolved or not. I would never choose then over the Quarians, it's illogical to murder an entire race for the sake of machines. Doing so almost make the Reapers sound right for killing organics. And the Geth proved manytimes to be unworthy of trust, and in the end when you choose to save the Quarians Legion gives you the final proof of what the Geth really are: they are willing to kill everyone and everything the threatens their existence.

Geth can be destoryed, because they were created just as we can be killed because we were born, semantics are the only thing in the way.  Every life form that has ever existed has been willing to fight to the death for it's right to existance, it's one of the basic laws of nature that self preserverance takes precedence.  Once the quarians stand down the geth are no longer a threat, this is not a coincedence.

[tractrpl]

The whole war doesn't make sense to me. The geth are machines, machines value efficiency, and take the path of least resistance. The easiest way for the geth to survive would simply by to fight the quarians only until they can secure safe passage off Rannoch, then fly off to some uncharted nebula and stay there for all time. It was totally unnecessary an illogical to kill billions of quarians and exile the remainder just to survive annihilation.

[hexediter]

Calinstel wrote...

I chose peace as it was the only correct answer due to BioWares (incompetence/design).

The quarians attacked because, and this was mentioned, their ships were starting to fail. They NEEDED their world back to just survive in the long term.
The geth knew that the quarians wanted their homeworld back yet even in the face of destruction, they chose to ally with the Reapers instead of just leaving Rannoch. A planet that they did not even inhabit.
Many here reference the vids that Legion shows Shepard as proof that the geth did no wrong. Later, Legion admits to having Reaper code within itself. This gave me cause to rethink what it had shown. Was it all the truth or was something left out from Legions show. A show carefully orchestrated to ensure my Shepard felt empathy toward his race.
Also, many users seem to brush aside the concept of quarian children. Out of a race of ~15 billion quarians, at least 2 billion were children. From teens all the way down to newborns. The quarian haters must relish the though of a geth platform stomping through a nursery.
The quarians were wrong but, so were the geth.
Giving both races a chance is the only viable option.

Good night.

The wierd thing is that the geth are the children of the quarians... now tell me who the monster is?

[tybbiesniffer]

Calinstel wrote...

Also, many users seem to brush aside the concept of quarian children. Out of a race of ~15 billion quarians, at least 2 billion were children. From teens all the way down to newborns. The quarian haters must relish the though of a geth platform stomping through a nursery.

Good night.

And this doesn't bother you about the quarians?  They take newborns into battle.  The quarians put their children in this position, not the geth.  I find the geth side easier to empathize with than the quarians.  The quarian thought-processes and actions, in many ways, seem more alien and difficult to understand than that of the geth.

[wantedman dan]

Sparatus wrote...

The most logical thing for the geth to have done is just leave Rannoch after the original rebellion. They had no need of it, and they really didn't need to build their dyson sphere right in the same system.

I mean, they had to have known the quarians would get desperate enough to try to take their world back someday.

I doubt it; part of the reason they didn't destroy the Quarians outright was because they didn't have the collective processing power to fully reason the eventuality of destroying a species. Because of that, I don't believe they would have the processing power to reason the eventuality of the Quarians returning in such a fashion.

[wantedman dan]

tybbiesniffer wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Also, many users seem to brush aside the concept of quarian children. Out of a race of ~15 billion quarians, at least 2 billion were children. From teens all the way down to newborns. The quarian haters must relish the though of a geth platform stomping through a nursery.

Good night.

And this doesn't bother you about the quarians?  They take newborns into battle.  The quarians put their children in this position, not the geth.  I find the geth side easier to empathize with than the quarians.  The quarian thought-processes and actions, in many ways, seem more alien and difficult to understand than that of the geth.

Thank you. That's the point I've been making.

[flub3]

Esker02 wrote...

flub3 wrote...

And if you were in the Geth's position? If you take Legion to the Admiralty board, he says the the Geth would be open to peace. The Quarians refuse to believe him. Would you let you let every American be annihilated because the Native Americans want their land back? Also, you are arguing that this is the Geth's fault for not offering peace. We really have no idea if the Geth would of even been able to offer peace. The way they see it the Quarians would never even accept peace and would just backstab them. I know that if humanity was on the verge of extermination, I would of turned to the reapers if it was our only chance at survival.

The quarians know that the geth committed atrocity after atrocity, to the extent that they had to flee their home planet, in the Morning War. They know that they kill everything that attempts to approach Rannoch, and have ever since they took control of it. They know the geth were involved in the events of ME1. I think they're entitled to some skepticism, given their history.

Also, what do you mean "if the Geth would of even been able to offer peace"? Do you mean to say, whether the quarians would have accepted it? If that's the case, then they had the obligation to at least try, given that the quarians were clearly operating under the assumption peace was impossible (given their history), and it would take only a firm gesture to disprove that. Or do you mean, whether they would technically be capable of offering it? As in, their programming would disallow them from even considering as a viable option?

To that I say, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either they are machines, pitiable perhaps, but nevertheless merely machines to be treated as simulations of life, constrained by programming like any VI. Or they are sentient, blameworthy life, in which case their "inability" to offer peace would be better characterized as a refusal.

I know that if humanity was on the verge of extinction by the turians, there are options. Surrender. Fleeing. If the reapers approached and said "hey bros, we really like this genetic diversity you got going on here. How about this, we'll kill all of you, make you a reaper, and then you can stick it to those turians?" or perhaps more analogous, "hey guys, looks like you're struggling with these turians. How about we make you all husks, control you directly, and give you a fighting chance? Oh sure, you'll be controlled by us forever and disposed of when we're done, but at least you'll have the cruel satisfaction of knowing you killed your attackers on your way out."

I, for one, would not accept such assistance. You would be trading the possibility of your death for the guarantee of your death, PLUS the chance of the attackers' death. I don't see the appeal, unless, again, you're a particularly vindictive/cruel being. (like the geth...)

When I say not even having the ability to offer peace, I meant that they don't seem to have the option to engage in diplomatic relations with the Quarians. The Quarians have attacked the Geth at every avaible oppurtunity, I don't think they would be particualy open to conducting diplomacy. As to the war crimes the geth committed, I don't see any evidence that war crimes are what caused the Quarians to leave the planet... they seemed to have left because they lost the war. If the Geth chased after them and murdered them, that might have been a war crime, but they didn't.

And Legion states that he would be open to peace with the Admirals. Only one of them seems to actually listen. I can't imagine this being any different. If they had the option to try and get peace, I agree they should of attempted to, but, in the end, the Quarians were the aggressors and in the wrong in this scenario. Also, why would the geth of surrendered? Could you see the Quarians accepting the Geth back into society? I think they would of wiped out any Geth that decided to surrender because of the fear that they would revolt again. 

And I suppose using the Reapers was a bad example. The Geth believed that siding with the Reapers would make them slaves, not wipe them out. And, they were willing to be slaves if that meant they had a chance to win. I'm sure when negotiating with the Reapers, they told them what the Geth wanted to hear and made it clear the Geth would still be able to be alive. If the Turians were hellbent on destroying all humans, I would take any option avaible to me. And, in a state of distress, with the Reapers saying that we could live we let them join us, I know many would be tempted to take that offer. When a race wants you and your people dead, you will do whatever you can to fight back. And, frankly, revenge is a powerful motivator. 

[FJVP]

Sparatus wrote...

The most logical thing for the geth to have done is just leave Rannoch after the original rebellion. They had no need of it, and they really didn't need to build their dyson sphere right in the same system.

I mean, they had to have known the quarians would get desperate enough to try to take their world back someday.

The way Legion talked in Mass Effect 2 it sounded like they only had a small presence there anyway. So I guess it was change for the sake of fighting geth again.

Geth wanted to preserve their creators' homeworld in the hopes that some day they would return to solve things peacefully, hence why they didn't leave. Even after being betrayed they still had loyalty towards the quarians.

[flub3]

DennyHoffmann wrote...

Geth can't be killed, because Geth never was alive.

They are robots, intelligent or not, full evolved or not. I would never choose then over the Quarians, it's illogical to murder an entire race for the sake of machines. Doing so almost make the Reapers sound right for killing organics. And the Geth proved manytimes to be unworthy of trust, and in the end when you choose to save the Quarians Legion gives you the final proof of what the Geth really are: they are willing to kill everyone and everything the threatens their existence.

You wouldn't be willing to kill for your right to exist?

[wantedman dan]

FJVP wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

The most logical thing for the geth to have done is just leave Rannoch after the original rebellion. They had no need of it, and they really didn't need to build their dyson sphere right in the same system.

I mean, they had to have known the quarians would get desperate enough to try to take their world back someday.

The way Legion talked in Mass Effect 2 it sounded like they only had a small presence there anyway. So I guess it was change for the sake of fighting geth again.

Geth wanted to preserve their creators' homeworld in the hopes that some day they would return to solve things peacefully, hence why they didn't leave. Even after being betrayed they still had loyalty towards the quarians.

Hmm. Fair point there.

[Joeybsmooth4]

fr33stylez wrote...

While I found the Quarians (except Tali and a few others) very annoying, justifying the Geth turning to the Reapers out of 'desperation' is ridiculous.

How many people would be fine if the Krogan turned to the Reapers for help to fight the Salarians? Hell, isn't this what Wrex essentially proposed on Vimire in ME1?

Legion of all people knew the Reapers capabilities. How could he possibly agree? It's like Shepard agreeing with Saren/Synthesis.

As the OP said, the Geth already converted to the Heretics before. And in ME3, they showed that if backed in a corner, they would sign with the most evil entity in the universe. Not really trustworthy to me.

So they should die ?

[Lmaoboat]

DennyHoffmann wrote...
 And the Geth proved manytimes to be unworthy of trust, and in the end when you choose to save the Quarians Legion gives you the final proof of what the Geth really are: they are willing to kill everyone and everything the threatens their existence.

Hmm, who does that remind me of? Oh right, everybody.

[tractrpl]

It's a logical plot hole. It makes no sense for the geth to do what they did, even with only a few fanatical quarians.

[hexediter]

tractrpl wrote...

The whole war doesn't make sense to me. The geth are machines, machines value efficiency, and take the path of least resistance. The easiest way for the geth to survive would simply by to fight the quarians only until they can secure safe passage off Rannoch, then fly off to some uncharted nebula and stay there for all time. It was totally unnecessary an illogical to kill billions of quarians and exile the remainder just to survive annihilation.

Legion explains that at the time the war started they were in the middle of trying to complete the Dyson sphere (he describes this in me-2) which was to house the majority of geth programs and allow them to be for lack of a better term collectivly more intelligent.  The quarians feared this development and attacked destroying a huge amount of geth (programs) and severely lowering the intellegence of the geth collective.  At this point they were facing the potential destruction of all geth and lacking any other alternative they saw collusion with the reapers as the only way for there continued existance.  They could not just leave rannoch because all their programs are being housed in and around it, and are under threat of complete annilihation. 

If the quarians had you know... landed on rannoch and taken it back instead of going after the geth brain then maybe the geth would have just allowed it, but the quarians did not do that.

[Lmaoboat]

Sparatus wrote...

Joeybsmooth4 wrote...

So they should die ?

Siding with the Reapers is arguably worse than death.

Really, for a race that wants to be free so bad, they sure do choose to be made slaves a lot.

You seem to forget that the Geth become dumber for every program that is destroyed, and I'm willing to bet many of the races would try and make a deal with the Reapers when face with imminent destruction. Javik even mentions one or two species that tried to do so, so it's not only a Geth thing.