861 réponses à ce sujet

[justafan]

The Morning War and the Rannoch war are both practically the same thing with the roles reversed. You can't seriously say the geth were justified in killing the Quarians because some militant factions tried to kill the geth, then say the Quarians weren't justified attacking after militant geth tried to kill all organic life in the galaxy in ME1.

Also, you can't blame the Quarians for trying to eliminate all the geth any more than you can blame the geth for wiping out most Quarians. The geth did not know the value of life nor the opinions of all the Quarians. Similarly, the Quarians had no idea the geth would be open to peace, as far as they knew all geth wanted to kill all sentient life.

You can't say that the geth just want peace when its very clear millions of programs wanted to join the reapers in the first place (heretics were not indoctrinated), there were undoubtably many Quarians who did not want to fight the geth, yet none of you are claiming the Quarians only ever wanted peace.

The only reason the geth were not driven off Rannoch the way the Quarians were was because of the timely arrival of the Reapers. Reaper intervention is literally the only factor that distinguishes the two wars apart.

[unoriginalname1133]

 I'm aware that this may sound like a cop-out, but I thought the best thing about the conflict was that it wasn't so black and white as one side being the "good side." Both sides had their faults and sympathetic qualities. The Quarians DID start the war, but it was rightly pointed out that there were Quarians who tried to help the Geth. And you could also argue that the Geth went too far with their response (wiped out something like 99% of the population, didn't they?). The Geth then spent 300 years killing any who entered their territory. The Quarians DID start the conflict in ME3, but the Geth responded by allying with Reapers. So neither side is 100% innocent here. And that is what I love about it (and what makes it so satisfying to resolve the conflict)

Modifié par unoriginalname1133, 11 avril 2012 - 01:56 .

[Joeybsmooth4]

Erield wrote...

Joeybsmooth4 wrote...

How many of those Qs were killed by there own people for not wanting to kill all of the Geth. Hell we have seen how the treated people like Tali who has done nothing but  help the fleet her whole life .

If you read my earlier post, you'll note that I'm not anti-Geth.  I'm also not insanely pro-Quarian.  The Quarians have some fairly abysmal leaders, who had little issue with playing politics over something that should have been a non-issue (see: Tali's loyalty mission in ME2).  I hardly think that this is justification to willingly, joyously condemn all of the Quarians to death.  I have yet to meet a Russian that I like, and I know that their leaders are pretty terrible people in general, but that doesn't mean that I want all Russians to die, or would be happy that they did....

I hear what you are saying .. but if the Qs die in this game it is by thier own hands. Tali tells them not to attack Shep goes out of his way to help them at every turn. And they can not hold off there attack when the people they are attacking stop shooting.  Personally I liked telling the Qs off more than killing them.  But if they do die( like the first time I played ) it is not becuase of a Shep trying to kill them it is due to them not stopping the fight .  Also if you talk to joker about it at the end it just tells you point blank they were never on ourside.

[avatoc]

have people forgotten that you can save both?

[D4rkSektor]

avatoc wrote...

have people forgotten that you can save both?

No, I don't think so. I think it's more that people aren't right in the head. They decide that they should be able to punish a race by committing genocide because the Quarians...tried to commit genocide. Or the other people who think that the Geth aren't alive because they're synthetic.

[Mr_Blue]

D4rkSektor wrote...

avatoc wrote...

have people forgotten that you can save both?

No, I don't think so. I think it's more that people aren't right in the head. They decide that they should be able to punish a race by committing genocide because the Quarians...tried to commit genocide. Or the other people who think that the Geth aren't alive because they're synthetic.

I think the majority of the players did not get this option, though. I think that's why the black & white decision is ingrained in them since on their first playthrough they couldn't unite them. Possible, yes, but easily achievable? No. You have to make sure you didn't exile Tali, have high enough EMS by then, max your reputation, and do the side missions. And unless you read up on that prior, you'd have no way of knowing until you see the gray choices.

Granted, you could just reload a save before Priority: Rannoch. But that's my hypothesis anyways. I was lucky to have a friend tell me those requirements without ruining the story for me.

Modifié par Mr_Blue, 11 avril 2012 - 08:41 .

[D4rkSektor]

Mr_Blue wrote...

D4rkSektor wrote...

avatoc wrote...

have people forgotten that you can save both?

No, I don't think so. I think it's more that people aren't right in the head. They decide that they should be able to punish a race by committing genocide because the Quarians...tried to commit genocide. Or the other people who think that the Geth aren't alive because they're synthetic.

I think the majority of the players did not get this option, though. I think that's why the black & white decision is ingrained in them since on their first playthrough they couldn't unite them. Possible, yes, but easily achievable? No. You have to make sure you didn't exile Tali, have high enough EMS by then, max your reputation, and do the side missions. And unless you read up on that prior, you'd have no way of knowing until you see the gray choices.

Granted, you could just reload a save before Priority: Rannoch. But that's my hypothesis anyways. I was lucky to have a friend tell me those requirements without ruining the story for me.

I managed to achieve peace between the two the first time I played through the game. Always went with my gut instinct and it hasn't steered me wrong yet. They should have known going in that it was going to be a decision that required a high reputation.
Besides, some people here really do believe those things.

Modifié par D4rkSektor, 11 avril 2012 - 08:50 .

[fr33stylez]

The original point of the thread had nothing to do with whether you can achieve peace. The question was simply asked the reasons for the disproportionate dislike for the Quarians, compared to the Geth.

I'm pretty sure most people who were given the option to achieve Peace did so, if not from a 'moral' perspective, then from a gameplay one.

[avatoc]

fr33stylez wrote...

The original point of the thread had nothing to do with whether you can achieve peace. The question was simply asked the reasons for the disproportionate dislike for the Quarians, compared to the Geth.

I'm pretty sure most people who were given the option to achieve Peace did so, if not from a 'moral' perspective, then from a gameplay one.

that purpose seem to have been lost qickly

[Eudaemonium]

fr33stylez wrote...

The original point of the thread had nothing to do with whether you can achieve peace. The question was simply asked the reasons for the disproportionate dislike for the Quarians, compared to the Geth.

I'm pretty sure most people who were given the option to achieve Peace did so, if not from a 'moral' perspective, then from a gameplay one.

People generally seem to view the Geth as the more innocent party. I think that's really it, simple as.

[Aerevane]

Because Geth do not infiltrate.

[Flidget]

I think it's also because the excuses that the Quarians give for attacking Rannoch instead of going to find a new homeworld elsewhere are also rather weak. They basically wanted a quick, violent solution rather than a slower but more peaceful one.

Modifié par Flidget, 12 avril 2012 - 08:23 .

[Grasich]

People seem to have a hard time seeing things from the Quarian's perspective, which is understandable I suppose, seeing as ME3 really paints things from the Geth perspective.

Think about this, how would we react if suddenly all... let's say... military hardware suddenly became sentient. Do you really think we would just say "Oh ok, let's be nice with it."?

Anyway, the way I see it is, the Quarians made a mistake out of fear and misunderstanding, and the Geth defended themselves. Neither side was in the wrong, they just didn't understand one another.

[OneWithTheAssassins]

Brosome wrote...

Genocide is wrong. It is an atrocity. I will always choose peace, no matter what. I won't even import any saves where I know i ****ed things up.

But, if I was ever forced to choose only one side, it would be the quarians.

I will never choose robots over innocent children.

A lot of people like to simply forget that children exist in the ME universe, even after Bioware made it clear otherwise in the very first level.

This!
My options are:
Kill the Geth,
Geth/Quarian peace,
or getthe****out.

[Eudaemonium]

I don't really see siding with the geth as deciding to kill the Quarians. That is a result fo your actions but it isn't actually the choice Shepard makes, unlike in the opposite choice where you explicitly decide to kill all the geth. Essentially what Shepard does is entrust the Quarians' fate to themselves and their own (in)ability to cease the conflict: the choice is basically to let the Quarians destroy themselves, rather than explicitly to kill them.

I grant you there isn't really much distinction given the end-result, though.

[OneWithTheAssassins]

I never wiped out or doomed any race in my playthrough. I got EVERY race to work together (although that didn't help with the ending much). I believe every race diserves a second chance of redemption, and the Krogan and Quarians/Geth are long over due there second chance.

[Larryboy_Dragon]

It's not hard to understand:
* The Quarians started it in the original war
* The Quarians refuse to sue for peace
* The Quarians keep restarting aggressions

[DESTRAUDO]

If i was on a playthrough where i had to choose one i would choose geth. Why? Because to semi-quote legion the creators started the war and the created would finish it.

When we invent AI, and we will, the exact same situation is going to play out. We will deny machines the rights of organics. We will use them as a slave race. We will treat their murder and abuse as a non issue. We have no excuse to do this but we will. Even though we enslaved humans before, and then grew to see it as wrong, we will.

In the mass effect universe the quarians are a race i have little pity for. Not only did they deny the rights of the machines they created, but even in the current time, they still do. They still see geth as being as much 'a being' as a kitchen appliance is. If they could they would retake control of the geth, force them into slavery. They are no better than batarian slavers.

So in a playthrough where i cannot save them both, i will not save the (twice over) aggressor.

[Bizbag]

I sympathized with both sides. That's why I ended the war and made peace.

[Bfler]

Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

It's not hard to understand:
* a part of The Quarians started it in the original war
* a part of The Quarians refuse to sue for peace
* The Quarian military keep restarting aggressions

[Chaoswind]

Also remember the Geth say that the creators have never declared cease of hostilities in the whole 300 years since the morning war; the Geth ended hostilities 290 years ago, and the Quarians never stopped, so the Geth had to believe all organics moving towards Rannok was hostile.

Not to forget that the Heretics left with Nazara 290 or 270 years ago and placed themselves on the veil and the outlying colonies of the Quarians and as thus are likely responsible for most of the organic deads of clueless people moving close to the veil.

[DESTRAUDO]

Chaoswind wrote...

Also remember the Geth say that the creators have never declared cease of hostilities in the whole 300 years since the morning war; the Geth ended hostilities 290 years ago, and the Quarians never stopped, so the Geth had to believe all organics moving towards Rannok was hostile.

Not to forget that the Heretics left with Nazara 290 or 270 years ago and placed themselves on the veil and the outlying colonies of the Quarians and as thus are likely responsible for most of the organic deads of clueless people moving close to the veil.

And lets not forget the opening salvo of the conflict in 3. 

'The quarians opened the war by launching precision strikes on four geth systems and driving them back to Tikkun, the quarian home system. The fleet also attacks a Dyson sphere that the geth had been building, the culmination of centuries of work intended to unite all geth into a single optimized network that would maximize their processing power.'[/i]

If the geth had launched a strike like that on the quarians out of the blue then every player would have wanted the geth to be mounted on pikes. But because it was geth who were wiped out it is a non issue for some people. 

[arnoldfriend]

People need to watch the star trek : tng episode "measure of a man ".

[136th]

Why can't you people, drop the useless philosophical BS?
Can't you just check the historical fact instead.

-Quarian created the geth
-The geth become alive
-Quarians try to shut them down
-Geth retaliate in self-defense,
-Mourning war
-The Geth win
-The Geth let the 17millions of survivor go.
*17 millions of survivor of a original population of billions! I don't know what happened, during the war, but the fact that the geth killed at least 99.83% of the quarians, really beg question on the geth's sense of logic, and their definition of "self-defense."
-The heretic go and worship Nazara, to bring doom to the galaxy. The Geth did nothing to stop them
-Nazara is killed by Joker
-Legion is sent
-Legion decided to destroy the heretic on AFTER, he discover that the heretic are preparing a virus.
-The Quarian attack the geth right in the middle of the reaper war, very stupid on their part.
-The Quarian destroy the Dyson sphere killed a most of the geth. Considering what the geth did to the quarians, it is expected.
-The Geth allied with the Reaper.

The Quarian did bad thing we get that, but don't deny the fact that the Geth also commit atrocities.
Killing 99.83%, goes beyond any definition of self defense.

Seriously this tread is filed with idiot who can't think strait:
-You got Geth sympathizer who think that the geth did absolutely noting wrong,
-You go Quarian hater who think that an entire species must die because they attack the innocent little Geth who nearly driven their species to extinction.
-On the other hand you got the Geth haters who think the geth must die because they are synthetic.
-Then you got those morons on TvTropes, who delete any line that challenge their view of the innocent and heroic geth.

Logic dammit.

If you are trying to play the devil's advocate my saying that the geth are innocent, that's not working. By killing more than 99.83% of the quarians, the geth have committed more war crimes than any note galactic races combined.

And stop saying that "The quarian where trying to kill them." The hard true is the Quarian on TRIED to genocide the geth, but the Geth ALMOST SUCCEEDED in killing off the quarians. If we ever use a scale of evil deeds, the geth will outweigh the quarians by far

One last thing all you Geth sympathizer/Quarians hater, Are you capable of a least bring up some historical fact about what BOTH SIDE did, instead of chanting your philosophical BS?

[WE_Belisarius]

136th wrote...

Why can't you people, drop the useless philosophical BS?
Can't you just check the historical fact instead.

-Quarian created the geth
-The geth become alive
-Quarians try to shut them down
-Geth retaliate in self-defense,
-Mourning war
-The Geth win
-The Geth let the 17millions of survivor go.
*17 millions of survivor of a original population of billions! I don't know what happened, during the war, but the fact that the geth killed at least 99.83% of the quarians, really beg question on the geth's sense of logic, and their definition of "self-defense."
-The heretic go and worship Nazara, to bring doom to the galaxy. The Geth did nothing to stop them
-Nazara is killed by Joker
-Legion is sent
-Legion decided to destroy the heretic on AFTER, he discover that the heretic are preparing a virus.
-The Quarian attack the geth right in the middle of the reaper war, very stupid on their part.
-The Quarian destroy the Dyson sphere killed a most of the geth. Considering what the geth did to the quarians, it is expected.
-The Geth allied with the Reaper.

The Quarian did bad thing we get that, but don't deny the fact that the Geth also commit atrocities.
Killing 99.83%, goes beyond any definition of self defense.

Seriously this tread is filed with idiot who can't think strait:
-You got Geth sympathizer who think that the geth did absolutely noting wrong,
-You go Quarian hater who think that an entire species must die because they attack the innocent little Geth who nearly driven their species to extinction.
-On the other hand you got the Geth haters who think the geth must die because they are synthetic.
-Then you got those morons on TvTropes, who delete any line that challenge their view of the innocent and heroic geth.

Logic dammit.

If you are trying to play the devil's advocate my saying that the geth are innocent, that's not working. By killing more than 99.83% of the quarians, the geth have committed more war crimes than any note galactic races combined.

And stop saying that "The quarian where trying to kill them." The hard true is the Quarian on TRIED to genocide the geth, but the Geth ALMOST SUCCEEDED in killing off the quarians. If we ever use a scale of evil deeds, the geth will outweigh the quarians by far

One last thing all you Geth sympathizer/Quarians hater, Are you capable of a least bring up some historical fact about what BOTH SIDE did, instead of chanting your philosophical BS?

Well put. I completly agree with you.