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[Olueq]

I am KROGAN wrote...

Hogge87 wrote...


The Geth defended themselves so effectively that they chased the Quarians off their own homeworld. The Quarians have then, rather than attempting diplomatic solutions, time and again attempted to take back Rannoch with military force.

This, this, THIS.

Maybe if the Quarian Admirals had.. lets say... attempted Diplomacy with the Geth, instead of just taking the stance "**** those guys, they took our planet, even though we attacked first and they reacted in self-defence" they could have lived together, maybe not in perfect harmony but, at the very least tolerant of one another.

I'd have a little more sympathy for the Quarians if their first reaction upon realizing the Geth were developing sentience wasn't "Screw that, we need robot slaves, lets [try to] kill them all."

those quarians died 300 years ago...

[Orenen]

I hate the Quarians because they fired on the geth ship while I was still aboard and when Admiral Gerrel said "Belay that, continue the attack!" when Tali tried to warn them...I wanted to say "**** it, get yourself wiped out you ignorant, short-sided fools"...that and Admiral Xen...**** that ****

[wantedman dan]

Did the OP watch the scenes during the Geth Consensus mission?

Modifié par wantedman dan, 09 avril 2012 - 11:18 .

[Mr. C]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Mr. C wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...


A very small number of Geth helped the Reapers. The majority took no part. When posed with the possibility of extinction, they chose survival whatever the cost. 

Remember what Legion said in Me2? How the Reapers were just as much a threat to Geth as they are to organics? After their usefulness expired the Reapers would wipe the Geth out anyway.

Which was either something they didn't consider, didn't know at all because Nazara lied to them, or it's something they thought of but decided not to do because it would be doing something similar to what the Quarians tried - mass murder. 

Or maybe it was a combination of these. 

No, I don't think they should have sided with the Reapers in ME3, but I can understand why they did, just like I could understand why Wrex wanted the cure in ME1 no matter the cost, even though I persuaded him against joining Saren. 

   Don't get me wrong, I understand WHY they did it. It's just that said decision made everything Legion said about his people false. If they were "Keeping Rannoch habitable for the creators' return", why didn't they send out an olive branch before Gerral destroyed their Dyson Sphere? If the Reapers are just as big a threat to Geth as they are to Organics, why did they risk siding with them, ESPECIALLY when the Pro-Geth ending shows the Geth fleet decimating the Quarians as they fought back? If they had that much fire power, they wouldn't NEED the Reaper-upgrades.

[Olueq]

Orenen wrote...

I hate the Quarians because they fired on the geth ship while I was still aboard and when Admiral Gerrel said "Belay that, continue the attack!" when Tali tried to warn them...I wanted to say "**** it, get yourself wiped out you ignorant, short-sided fools"...that and Admiral Xen...**** that ****

I bet your the type of person that hates everyone in the united states because of the war in iraq.

[G Kevin]

Olueq wrote...

I am KROGAN wrote...

Hogge87 wrote...


The Geth defended themselves so effectively that they chased the Quarians off their own homeworld. The Quarians have then, rather than attempting diplomatic solutions, time and again attempted to take back Rannoch with military force.

This, this, THIS.

Maybe if the Quarian Admirals had.. lets say... attempted Diplomacy with the Geth, instead of just taking the stance "**** those guys, they took our planet, even though we attacked first and they reacted in self-defence" they could have lived together, maybe not in perfect harmony but, at the very least tolerant of one another.

I'd have a little more sympathy for the Quarians if their first reaction upon realizing the Geth were developing sentience wasn't "Screw that, we need robot slaves, lets [try to] kill them all."

those quarians died 300 years ago...

This. Should people think someone is a terrible person if his/her father was one?

[Olueq]

wantedman dan wrote...

Did the OP watch the scenes during the Geth Consensus mission?

1. those were people that died 300 years ago
2. There were quarians that defended the geth
3. What we DIDNT see was the geth murdering millions of innocents, even children.

[HenchxNarf]

If you did the mission in ME3 where you get integrated into the Geth mind, you get flashes of what the Quarians did to the Geth. It was horrible, yet understandable as well.

On the other hand, some of the Quarians were protecting the Geth.

It's a sticky situation, but it makes me hate the Quarians (except Tali for some reason)

[Hogge87]

[quote]G Kevin wrote...

those quarians died 300 years ago...

[/quote]

This. Should people think someone is a terrible person if his/her father was one?

[/quote]
Thing is: ME3 starts off with the Quarians trying to do the same darned thing again.

[Mr. C]

Orenen wrote...

I hate the Quarians because they fired on the geth ship while I was still aboard and when Admiral Gerrel said "Belay that, continue the attack!" when Tali tried to warn them...I wanted to say "**** it, get yourself wiped out you ignorant, short-sided fools"...that and Admiral Xen...**** that ****

So the executive military order of the Heavy-Fleet Admiral was to be ignored because some human commander was on the biggest threat to their entire livlihood at the time?  That was on Gerral, not the Quarians.

[G Kevin]

wantedman dan wrote...

Did the OP watch the scenes during the Geth Consensus mission?

Probably, however, in those scene all I saw was the Quarian military leaders being very stupid. I can understand why they attacked the Geth but killing off your own people who disagree with you?

[ticklefist]

I think this is going to end up being just like the Templar/Mage debates in Dragon Age. With the idealists picking Geth/Mage and the people that have a strong footing in reality picking Quarian/Templar.

[Tom Lehrer]

Saul Iscariot wrote...

The Heretics were only a small portion of the Geth, but as the remaining Geth chose to stand idly by and do nothing, abdicating responsibility to Shepard to decide their future they are evil.

By that same logic Im evil because decided not to kill the skinhead down the street from me. 

He views are wrong and his logic flawed but that does not justify murder.

[rex285]

4stringwizard wrote...

1.  The Quarians weren't "genocidal maniacs".  They tried to reclaim their home world.  For crying out loud people, wouldn't you have done the same thing?  Beside, not all Quarians supported the war or the first "Morning War."  And they were attacing machines.  I repeat, MACHINES.  Whether the Geth were alive/sentient at the end is moot, but the game makes it clear that the Geth didn't achieve sentience until after they got the Reaper upgrades.  Even if they were alive/sentient, the Quarians wouldn't have known this.  For all they knew at the time, the Geth were just machines still.  Speaking of Reapers...

 

They still had control of their world when they began attacking the Geth. You need to remeber that the Quarians began attacking the Geth because they were questioning their existance. Also the believed they had gained sentience because they began questioning, "Does this Unit have a soul?" if that isn't a sign of sentience then I don't know what is. Not until the Geth faced certain death did they begin fighting back. Even in some occasions they only faught back to protect their Quarian Masters. 

 
2.  The Geth weren't "innocent" in all this.  They sided with the Reapers not once, but TWICE over the course of the trilogy.  Yeah, the first ones to side were the "heretics", but even still, they were once true Geth.  if they could turn, why couldn't the true Geth?  At best, this shows the Geth to be untrustworthy.  As far as ME3, even if the Geth were desparate, they sided with the Reapers knowing full well what their intentions were.  Nobody is even bothered by this?  Again, this shows the Geth to be untrustworthy.  What would have stopped them from waging war against organics later to better themselves?

 

So by your logic, If I were to go on a killing spree in the name of the Russian Government. I could blame you and say that you were just as guilty because you are also a human being who could also commit the same atrocities.

 
Yes, they sided with the reapers and knew what would happen, but they did so because it was either submit to their will or face extinction at the hands of the Reapers. Anyway, what gives the Quarians the right to send the Geth to extinction? Legion even states that they have no intentions of going to war with the Quarians and would be more than willing to accept them back to Rannoch. The Geth even went as far as to clean up and restore Rannoch to what it was before the Morning war. 

 
3.  Another pro-Geth argument I've heard is that the Geth were peaceful and let the Quarians live during the first war, when they had to chance to pursue them or wipe them out.  Well, Legion himself says the ONLY reason the Geth didn't wipe out the Quarians was because they weren't smart enough to make that decision at the time.  Even during the game, Legion basically admits to Shepard that the Geth aren't any better than organics.  (This occurs after Shepard finds out that Legion had his something from him.)  The Geth wouldn't have been more useful.  The Quarians had the largest fleet in the galaxy and the Geth were weakened if they had been destroyed rather than re-written.  

 
 
 
Start watching at 3:40

Legion states that they didn't wipe out the Quarians because they had attained freedom and the threat of the Quarians was over. He never once states that they didn't do it because they weren't smart enough. He says that they couldn't caluculate the FUTURE problems that could occur from sending the Quarians in to extinction. 

Yes, the Quarians had the largest fleet, but their fleet was made up of old ships that had been jury-rigged to stay together. The codex states that many of their ships are from the original exodus from the Morning war. Also counting that basically their entire population lives on the ships, I guarentee that the majority are not war ships. While the Geth had massive numbers of ships, not up to par with the quarians, but their ships could definately handle themselves well as we see in the Battle of the Citadel. 

[G Kevin]

Hogge87 wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

This. Should people think someone is a terrible person if his/her father was one?

Thing is: ME3 starts off with the Quarians trying to do the same darned thing again.

The Admirals attacked. The majority of the Quarians were not in favor of the war but the stupid Admirals went with it anyway.

[AngryFrozenWater]

G Kevin wrote...

Why did the Geth never tell anyone that they meant no harm? Instead killing any ship that came into the Veil.

The geth did so time after time. They got no response, other than violence from the quarians. Hence the Morning War. The geth also ended that war. They let the remaining quarians go. It appears to me that after that they do not own anyone an apology or a peace attempt. They have done their best.

[Olueq]

[quote]Hogge87 wrote...

[quote]G Kevin wrote...

those quarians died 300 years ago...

[/quote]

This. Should people think someone is a terrible person if his/her father was one?

[/quote]
Thing is: ME3 starts off with the Quarians trying to do the same darned thing again.

[/quote]
maybe because they are dying? The whole galaxy hates them and their ships wont last forever. Alo, no one except Tali knows the geth are even considering peace. And even that is only going by the word of ONE geth. Also, most of the quarians didnt want to got to war.

[Elite Midget]

Well, the Quarians tried to wipe them out and even when Legion proved that not all Geth as servants of the Reapers they still wanted to wipe them out. Than the Quarian leader not letting go even though Legion and the Geth were willing to erase their dark history with their creators and start anew.

That and the Quarians captured Geth and performed horrible experiments on them, even taking many a part and destroying what made them "Geth" for SCIENCE even though they already know everything about Geth.

[Minnakht]

Mr. C wrote...

@fr33- Precisely why I let Gerral wipe them out. I grew tired of their fickle loyalties. "It was the Heretics that sided with the Reapers, we're innocent!" - Legion, ME2

"LOL jk" - Majority Geth, ME3

More like

"You broke our Dyson sphere, quarians! Why? Did we - not counting a few idiots - ever do something to you? Oh it's ON"

Quarians started both wars. It's hard to be loyal when you're under attack and desperate.

...although I have to admit the propaganda mission, a very immersive one, was convincing - so I might be biased.

This, and... we're players. In the end, we aren't so immersed in the game world.
Tell me, who's more interesting? A purely virtual species of actually pretty simple programs which takes all decisions via consensus, or space nomads which look like two-fingered humans? In full-body suits?
Some people might pick geth just because they're so unique.

...that said, I find that the 'upgrade', making them 'proper individuals', detracts from that charm, makes them more normal and more boring. Just usual AIs. Geth were interesting in how they were unintended - simple VIs, as dumb as Avina and whatever, which evolved complex intelligence by banding together.

[Olueq]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

Why did the Geth never tell anyone that they meant no harm? Instead killing any ship that came into the Veil.

The geth did so time after time. They got no response, other than violence from the quarians. Hence the Morning War. The geth also ended that war. They let the remaining quarians go. It appears to me that after that they do not own anyone an apology or a peace attempt. They have done their best.

lol? No they didnt. They never, ever tried to communicate with the quarians. Or anyone else for that matter. The only contact anyone ever has with the geth is with the heretics, so youc ant blame peopel for hating the geth. Legion is the one exception, but he was only sent to talk to Shepard, and that was only after he killed sovereign.

[wantedman dan]

Olueq wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Did the OP watch the scenes during the Geth Consensus mission?

1. those were people that died 300 years ago
2. There were quarians that defended the geth
3. What we DIDNT see was the geth murdering millions of innocents, even children.

1) Whoopdie Sh*t. Are you saying history sets no precedent for the present?

2) And their sacrifice was noted, according to Legion. That still does not account for the fact that a vast majority of the Quarians STARTED WAR against a race they saw as subservient, and lost, and got pissed off about it.

3) Out of self-defense. What part of that don't you get? Innocent casualties happen; it's war. It's not pretty. Grow a set and get out of your phantasmagorical representation of it. What you're not taking account for is the fact that the killing stops as soon as the Quarians fled.

Modifié par wantedman dan, 09 avril 2012 - 11:27 .

[Edolix]

If I had to choose between the quarians and the geth, I would choose the quarians. Consider the long-term implications of siding with the geth. The geth are synthetics with REAPER TECH. They may be commited to stopping the reapers, but once the reapers have been delt with who can guess what they would do afterwards? Without the quarians to keep the geth in check who knows what they would do?

It's kinda irrelevent to me, because I will always fly the white flag of peace.

[FatalX7.0]

I could never choose one over the other.

But seeing what the Quarians did to the Geth when they saw that they were gaining sentience...I lost a lot of respect for them.

[Olueq]

Elite Midget wrote...

Well, the Quarians tried to wipe them out and even when Legion proved that not all Geth as servants of the Reapers they still wanted to wipe them out. Than the Quarian leader not letting go even though Legion and the Geth were willing to erase their dark history with their creators and start anew.

That and the Quarians captured Geth and performed horrible experiments on them, even taking many a part and destroying what made them "Geth" for SCIENCE even though they already know everything about Geth.

No one knows the geth want peace, rememeber? Maybe the geth should have told them instead of letting the heretics make all the contact with everyone. Youa re also blaming all of them for what only some of them wanted or did.

[wantedman dan]

G Kevin wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Did the OP watch the scenes during the Geth Consensus mission?

Probably, however, in those scene all I saw was the Quarian military leaders being very stupid. I can understand why they attacked the Geth but killing off your own people who disagree with you?

I'm willing to bet the OP skimmed or didn't pay attention.