861 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

Pottumuusi wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

If people attack you, and you kill most of the people that attack you, it's not really the same as "genocide". Genocide is extermination.

And where are you getting this "99%" figure from, exactly?

If genocide is extermination then I suppose the Holocaust wasn't a genocide, hmm?

I actually couldn't give less of a f*** who started it, it doesn't justify genocide (or murder or whatever you wish to call it, lets not start arguing semantics).

Do you not understand words?

How do you get from "genocide is extermination" to "I suppose the Holocaust wasn't a genocide"? The Holocaust WAS extermination. You know how I know? Because they had extermination camps. So, math.

Next time, think before you chime in.

[JBPBRC]

moater boat wrote...

No, not really. The quarians were ideally suited for Rannoch and vice-versa, the Geth, on the other hand, can literally live almost anywhere in the galaxy.

Covered this before, Geth have nowhere to go.

Council space? Not gonna happen.

Terminus Systems? LOL even the Turians, the strongest military in the galaxy, don't mess with that area of space.

Dark space? Oh wait.

If the Geth REALLY cared about peace or if they REALLY wanted to be friendly with the Quarians, like they pretend at the end of the Rannoch campaign, they would have just LEFT RANNOCH. But they didn't, because they ONLY care about themselves.

Because Quarians TOTALLY care about the greater good of the galaxy and not themselves.

Oh wait, starting a war in the middle of a Reaper invasion. NVM.

I'm not saying the quarians were all innocent victims (though a larger percentage of those that were killed probably were) All I am saying is that the Geth are xenophic, two-faced, genocidal, self-centered ****holes that are not to be trusted.

As are the majority of Quarians. Even Tali, after all the Geth information you can give her in ME1, make her a hero of the galaxy for helping defeat Saren and delay the Reapers, totally rips off the Normandy's stealth systems when she goes back to end her Pilgrimage and doesn't say a word to Shepard about it.

As much as I hate Ashley...damn she was right in that one case.

Modifié par JBPBRC, 16 mai 2012 - 05:01 .

[Arlionis]

moater boat wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...


If people attack you, and you kill most of the people that attack you, it's not really the same as "genocide". Genocide is extermination.

And where are you getting this "99%" figure from, exactly?

Genocide doesn't need to kill EVERYONE for it be genocide.

The 99% comes from the quarian pre-war population and the quarian post war population. They went from several billion to 17 million.

Considering we saw them having no problems with killing their own people as "collateral damage" during the consensus mission memories, I wouldn't be surprised if the Quarians nuked their own cities in order to destroy Geth clusters, they're that fundie. Nuclear war is the reason why it took the Geth so many years to clean the planet. 

[Siansonea]

ubermensch007 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

ubermensch007 wrote...

j_rod2588 wrote...

I always save both, but prefer the geth.

How can you prefer the geth? The quarians are a beautiful race. An highly gifted and intelligent race. Self-reliant to the nth degree. And unlike the krogan who divided after the genophage. The quarians united after their great crisis -- The Morning War.

You never hear the quarians blaming the geth for everything.Like the krogan blame the genophage for next to everything that's wrong in their society. <_<

We humans may not be able to procreate with quarians -- but our two species can still -- well -- you know... Have a lot of fun together.

Typical. <_<

Seems like I played a different game. I seem to recall a lot of yammering by quarians (mainly Tali'Zorah vas Puberty) about the geth this and the geth that, and they're so mean, and they're so bad, blah blah blah. Meanwhile, we find out the quarians brought everything on themselves with their blind hatred and panic.

And "beautiful race"? I've never seen a quarian, just their outfits. Which are meh, in my opinion. Plus, their hands and feet are gross. And regardless, appearance does not impart worth. Even if they were "beautiful", if they're despicable jerks, I don't care how beautiful they are. And Daro'Xen and Han'Gerrel show that the leadership of the quarians is at least 50% Despicable, and Sweet Little Tali will shun you if you do the moral thing and reveal Rael'Zorah's war crimes to the Admiralty Board. If we were talking about organics, if Rael'Zorah had been performing vivisection on organics rather than synthetics, he would be Josef Mengele. But because it's synthetics, it's totally okay with people.

Typical. <_<

I don't know if you ever saw Battle: Los Angeles (Great film, I thought it was just going to be a bunch of pro-military proporganda.But I was wrong.) but their is a very disturbing scene where Aaron Eckhart's character manages to take down one of the alien invaders and decides to do an impromptu  live autopsy.In order to find out how to kill the damn thing. Now that might turn your stomach and say what you will. but if I were in his place.I would hope that I would have had the stones to do as he did.Because the intel he gathered was invaluable to Earth's resistence forces.

I have no idea why everyone was acting like what Rael did was so wrong.It makes sense to find out if your weapons are going to have any destructive affect on your enemies. Where Admiral Rael Zorah crossed the line. Was by doing all this "off the books" and endangering the fleet.

Well, your username certainly makes a lot more sense now.

[moater boat]

Arlionis wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...


If people attack you, and you kill most of the people that attack you, it's not really the same as "genocide". Genocide is extermination.

And where are you getting this "99%" figure from, exactly?

Genocide doesn't need to kill EVERYONE for it be genocide.

The 99% comes from the quarian pre-war population and the quarian post war population. They went from several billion to 17 million.

Considering we saw them having no problems with killing their own people as "collateral damage" during the consensus mission memories, I wouldn't be surprised if the Quarians nuked their own cities in order to destroy Geth clusters, they're that fundie. Nuclear war is the reason why it took the Geth so many years to clean the planet. 

The Quarians that sided with the Geth were a minority, so even if every single sympathizer was killed (incredibly unlikely) and even if the Quarians wiped out a full third of their own people with nukes (even more unlikely) That still leaves billions of quarian deaths (many of them children, wounded, or infirm) completely unexplained. Just face it. The only possible explanation is the cruel and ruthless extermination of billions of quarians by the Geth.

[DieHigh2012]

I'd say it's 50/50 as far as blame goes. The geth could have just left, we found out they don't even stay on the planets they took from the Quarian. Making there genocide meaningless. The Quarians flaws are quite obvious as well. Both are to blame for the cycle of pain and loss.

(sorry just finished watching Battlestar Galactica, great show if you have yet to watch it)

[JBPBRC]

moater boat wrote...
The only possible explanation is the cruel and ruthless extermination of billions of quarians by the Geth.

...Or the Quarians nuking their own cities, which was just brought up. We've seen in game that the Quarians were willing to risk their ENTIRE POPULATION in an attack against the Geth during the REAPER INVASION. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Quarians nuked Rannoch if they thought it would mean victory against the Geth.

Modifié par JBPBRC, 16 mai 2012 - 05:15 .

[Siansonea]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

I'd say it's 50/50 as far as blame goes. The geth could have just left, we found out they don't even stay on the planets they took from the Quarian. Making there genocide meaningless. The Quarians flaws are quite obvious as well. Both are to blame for the cycle of pain and loss.

(sorry just finished watching Battlestar Galactica, great show if you have yet to watch it)

So, you admit you're judging Mass Effect by the precedent set in Battlestar Galactica? Okay, thanks for playing.

"The geth could have just left"—and gone where, exactly? From everything they can tell, they are the only machine intelligence in the galaxy, and the galaxy is full of organics who have decided that they're a threat. They have no allies, no safe haven. All they can do is hunker down where they are, and defend the area they've secured. They weren't expansionistic, or intent on exterminating their creators or organics in general. You can't apply the Cylon situation to the geth-quarian conflict. Sure, there are parallels of sorts, because it's obvious that the writers "borrowed" quite a bit from Battlestar Galactica, but it's not the same situation at all. The geth didn't instigate a surprise attack, preemptive strike on Rannoch, Haestrom and the other quarian colonies. To say that the blame is 50/50 is downplaying the quarian's culpability, in my view.

[moater boat]

JBPBRC wrote...

moater boat wrote...
The only possible explanation is the cruel and ruthless extermination of billions of quarians by the Geth.

...Or the Quarians nuking their own cities, we was just brought up. We've seen in game that the Quarians were willing to risk their ENTIRE POPULATION in an attack against the Geth during the REAPER INVASION. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Quarians nuked Rannoch if they thought it would mean victory against the Geth.

So less than 1% nuked the other 99%?<_<

Okay, I get it. This is obviously not an intelligent discussion anymore. I'm out.

[JBPBRC]

Siansonea II wrote...

You can't apply the Cylon situation to the geth-quarian conflict. Sure, there are parallels of sorts, because it's obvious that the writers "borrowed" quite a bit from Battlestar Galactica, but it's not the same situation at all. The geth didn't instigate a surprise attack, preemptive strike on Rannoch, Haestrom and the other quarian colonies. To say that the blame is 50/50 is downplaying the quarian's culpability, in my view.

If anything its a reverse Battlestar Galactica. Instead of the machines revolting its the creators striking first against the created. (TAKE THAT CATALYST), and afterwards, the Quarians continue to attack the Geth at every available opportunity, much like the Cylons attacked the Colonials at every chance they could get.

[JBPBRC]

moater boat wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

moater boat wrote...
The only possible explanation is the cruel and ruthless extermination of billions of quarians by the Geth.

...Or the Quarians nuking their own cities, we was just brought up. We've seen in game that the Quarians were willing to risk their ENTIRE POPULATION in an attack against the Geth during the REAPER INVASION. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Quarians nuked Rannoch if they thought it would mean victory against the Geth.

So less than 1% nuked the other 99%?<_<

Why not? Less than 1% is enough to get the entire Quarian race EXTERMINATED if Shepard decides to not make peace and back the Geth.

Okay, I get it. This is obviously not an intelligent discussion anymore. I'm out.

Good, you weren't even listening to the other side at all. Its time for Spider-Man anyway.

[Arlionis]

moater boat wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

moater boat wrote...
The only possible explanation is the cruel and ruthless extermination of billions of quarians by the Geth.

...Or the Quarians nuking their own cities, we was just brought up. We've seen in game that the Quarians were willing to risk their ENTIRE POPULATION in an attack against the Geth during the REAPER INVASION. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Quarians nuked Rannoch if they thought it would mean victory against the Geth.

So less than 1% nuked the other 99%?<_<

Okay, I get it. This is obviously not an intelligent discussion anymore. I'm out.

Yeah, that's actually how scorched earth military tactics work out, specially if the ones implementing it are as zealous and warmongering as the Quarians. Gerrel was willing to sacrifice the entire civilian fleet, same as his ancestors sacrificed most of their people in a pointless extermination war. 

[ubermensch007]

JBPBRC wrote...

moater boat wrote...

No, not really. The quarians were ideally suited for Rannoch and vice-versa, the Geth, on the other hand, can literally live almost anywhere in the galaxy.

Covered this before, Geth have nowhere to go.

Council space? Not gonna happen.

Terminus Systems? LOL even the Turians, the strongest military in the galaxy, don't mess with that area of space.

Dark space? Oh wait.

If the Geth REALLY cared about peace or if they REALLY wanted to be friendly with the Quarians, like they pretend at the end of the Rannoch campaign, they would have just LEFT RANNOCH. But they didn't, because they ONLY care about themselves.

Because Quarians TOTALLY care about the greater good of the galaxy and not themselves.

Oh wait, starting a war in the middle of a Reaper invasion. NVM.

I'm not saying the quarians were all innocent victims (though a larger percentage of those that were killed probably were) All I am saying is that the Geth are xenophic, two-faced, genocidal, self-centered ****holes that are not to be trusted.

As are the majority of Quarians. Even Tali, after all the Geth information you can give her in ME1, make her a hero of the galaxy for helping defeat Saren and delay the Reapers, totally rips off the Normandy's stealth systems when she goes back to end her Pilgrimage and doesn't say a word to Shepard about it.

As much as I hate Ashley...damn she was right in that one case.

I kind have to let that one slide though. In part because in  ME2 Tali helps improve the Normandy SR2 performance. Why shouldn't she take what she's learned about turian/human shipbuilding and use that information to improve upon quarian ship functionality.

Plus you don't see Shep and Co being shy about asking if the geth and others can share any technology with them, to help give them better odds at survivng going threw the unmapped Omega 4 relay. The key difference of course.Is that Shepard ask.He doesn't just take.

The quarians do have all kinds of convient double standards.They immigrate to many aliens worlds.But few aliens are allowed to vist the homes. The whole concept of their Pilgrimage doesn't exactly give them any good publicity.When you consider that the primary purpose of it is for them to despartely try to aquire some alien technology that will strengthen the Migrant Fleet.Probably "By any means necesary."

The one I don't forgive is Captain (now Major) Kirahee. We learn that he and his STG team that we saved on Virmire totally scanned the Normandy SR-1 to learn its secrets. I'm strongly considering going back to ME1 and not saving his ass on Virmire. <_<

Modifié par ubermensch007, 16 mai 2012 - 05:32 .

[JBPBRC]

ubermensch007 wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

moater boat wrote...

No, not really. The quarians were ideally suited for Rannoch and vice-versa, the Geth, on the other hand, can literally live almost anywhere in the galaxy.

Covered this before, Geth have nowhere to go.

Council space? Not gonna happen.

Terminus Systems? LOL even the Turians, the strongest military in the galaxy, don't mess with that area of space.

Dark space? Oh wait.

If the Geth REALLY cared about peace or if they REALLY wanted to be friendly with the Quarians, like they pretend at the end of the Rannoch campaign, they would have just LEFT RANNOCH. But they didn't, because they ONLY care about themselves.

Because Quarians TOTALLY care about the greater good of the galaxy and not themselves.

Oh wait, starting a war in the middle of a Reaper invasion. NVM.

I'm not saying the quarians were all innocent victims (though a larger percentage of those that were killed probably were) All I am saying is that the Geth are xenophic, two-faced, genocidal, self-centered ****holes that are not to be trusted.

As are the majority of Quarians. Even Tali, after all the Geth information you can give her in ME1, make her a hero of the galaxy for helping defeat Saren and delay the Reapers, totally rips off the Normandy's stealth systems when she goes back to end her Pilgrimage and doesn't say a word to Shepard about it.

As much as I hate Ashley...damn she was right in that one case.

I kind have to let that one slide though. In part because in  ME2 Tali helps improve the Normandy SR2 performance. Why shouldn't she take what she's learned about turian/human shipbuilding and use that information to improve upon quarian ship functionality.

Plus you don't see Shep and Co being shy about asking if the geth and others can share any technology with them, to help give them better odds at survivng going threw the unmapped Omega 4 relay. The key deference of course.Is that Shepard ask.he doesn't just take.

The quarians do have all kinds of convient double standards.They immigrate to many aliens worlds.But few aliens are allowed to vist the homes. The whole concept of their Pilgrimage doesn't exactly give them any good publicity.When you consider that the primary purpose of it is for them to despartely try to aquire some alien technology that will strengthen the Migrant Fleet.Probably "By any means necesary."

The one I don't forgive is Captain (now Major) Kirahee. We learn that he and his STG team that we saved on Virmire totally scanned the Normandy SR-1 to learn its secrets. I'm strongly considering going back to ME1 and not saving his ass on Virmire. <_<

Oh, don't get me wrong I understand the reasoning behind it. There's a reason that the galaxy mainly sees Quarians as a bunch of thieves and beggars, its just how Quarian culture has evolved over the centuries to deal with living on a fleet. Its not talking with Shepard about it that irks me.

[Arlionis]

ubermensch007 wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

moater boat wrote...

No, not really. The quarians were ideally suited for Rannoch and vice-versa, the Geth, on the other hand, can literally live almost anywhere in the galaxy.

Covered this before, Geth have nowhere to go.

Council space? Not gonna happen.

Terminus Systems? LOL even the Turians, the strongest military in the galaxy, don't mess with that area of space.

Dark space? Oh wait.

If the Geth REALLY cared about peace or if they REALLY wanted to be friendly with the Quarians, like they pretend at the end of the Rannoch campaign, they would have just LEFT RANNOCH. But they didn't, because they ONLY care about themselves.

Because Quarians TOTALLY care about the greater good of the galaxy and not themselves.

Oh wait, starting a war in the middle of a Reaper invasion. NVM.

I'm not saying the quarians were all innocent victims (though a larger percentage of those that were killed probably were) All I am saying is that the Geth are xenophic, two-faced, genocidal, self-centered ****holes that are not to be trusted.

As are the majority of Quarians. Even Tali, after all the Geth information you can give her in ME1, make her a hero of the galaxy for helping defeat Saren and delay the Reapers, totally rips off the Normandy's stealth systems when she goes back to end her Pilgrimage and doesn't say a word to Shepard about it.

As much as I hate Ashley...damn she was right in that one case.

I kind have to let that one slide though. In part because in  ME2 Tali helps improve the Normandy SR2 performance. Why shouldn't she take what she's learned about turian/human shipbuilding and use that information to improve upon quarian ship functionality.

 

You can not recruit her in ME2 and the Quarians will still have that tech in ME3, which means that she stole it from the SR1. 

 
Plus you don't see Shep and Co being shy about asking if the geth and others can share any technology with them, to help give them better odds at survivng going threw the unmapped Omega 4 relay. The key difference of course.Is that Shepard ask.He doesn't just take.

 

Exactly, tech exchange is one thing, espionage is another. 

[Beerfish]

Why all the Quarian hatred/Geth sympathy?


Geth = Mages
Quarian = The Chantry

[JesseLee202]

Arlionis wrote...
Quarians, a hideous race of racist slavers that tried to exterminate them when they were forming their consciousness state.

There is a word used to describe people like you... I think I'll let you figure that out on your own. 

[MrDavid]

I find it funny how so many people claim that Renegade=Evil in ME3, yet here we are in a thread where so many people approve of the "Renegade" option.
Funny enough, in my 1st playthrough my "Renegade" Shepard actually sided with the Quarians. Seeing as both Tali and Legion were dead and that he encouraged the Quarians to go to war, I (he) had less reason to trust the Geth.
That, and I wanted to keep Gerrel as a punching bag

[mjh417]

I just never understood why the Quarians couldn't just make peace with them

[G Kevin]

mjh417 wrote...

I just never understood why the Quarians couldn't just make peace with them

Most of their people were killed by the Geth.

After that, I'm not sure peace would be the first thing that comes to mind.

Hell, you see hate like this nowadays.

Think about all the issues that turn into black vs white.

Modifié par G Kevin, 16 mai 2012 - 09:31 .

[Catamantaloedis]

The Geth/Synthetics are an abomination.

[darkchief10]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The Geth/Synthetics are an abomination.

oh its you. how are you doing today?

I believe machines are capable of a soul, which is why i always go  for peace, neither race deserves to die, as in any struggle both sides share the blame, the geth defended themselves into the quarians near extinction and the quarian admiralty(excluding tali and qwuib qwuib) are idiots who refuse to find another way. sometimes you need a third party to tell bopth sides they are stupid for not pursuing peace and in the case of han'gerrel tell that ignorant idiot to shut the **** up, that or send some -redacted- agents and destroy them all for humanity.

[G Kevin]

darkchief10 wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The Geth/Synthetics are an abomination.

oh its you. how are you doing today?

I believe machines are capable of a soul, which is why i always go  for peace, neither race deserves to die, as in any struggle both sides share the blame, the geth defended themselves into the quarians near extinction and the quarian admiralty(excluding tali and qwuib qwuib) are idiots who refuse to find another way. sometimes you need a third party to tell bopth sides they are stupid for not pursuing peace and in the case of han'gerrel tell that ignorant idiot to shut the **** up, that or send some -redacted- agents and destroy them all for humanity.

I think it's much easier to ignore him.

Let's not forget here that the general Quarian consensus was to not go to war. The admiralty dragged them in, and we shouldn't blame all the Quarians for the poor choices of a few men and women.

[darkchief10]

G Kevin wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The Geth/Synthetics are an abomination.

oh its you. how are you doing today?

I believe machines are capable of a soul, which is why i always go  for peace, neither race deserves to die, as in any struggle both sides share the blame, the geth defended themselves into the quarians near extinction and the quarian admiralty(excluding tali and qwuib qwuib) are idiots who refuse to find another way. sometimes you need a third party to tell bopth sides they are stupid for not pursuing peace and in the case of han'gerrel tell that ignorant idiot to shut the **** up, that or send some -redacted- agents and destroy them all for humanity.

I think it's much easier to ignore him.

Let's not forget here that the general Quarian consensus was to not go to war. The admiralty dragged them in, and we shouldn't blame all the Quarians for the poor choices of a few men and women.

which is why i solely blame the admiralty, you would think the civilian board could have done something to prevent a war during the end of the galaxy(reaper invasion)

[justafan]

darkchief10 wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The Geth/Synthetics are an abomination.

oh its you. how are you doing today?

I believe machines are capable of a soul, which is why i always go  for peace, neither race deserves to die, as in any struggle both sides share the blame, the geth defended themselves into the quarians near extinction and the quarian admiralty(excluding tali and qwuib qwuib) are idiots who refuse to find another way. sometimes you need a third party to tell bopth sides they are stupid for not pursuing peace and in the case of han'gerrel tell that ignorant idiot to shut the **** up, that or send some -redacted- agents and destroy them all for humanity.

I think it's much easier to ignore him.

Let's not forget here that the general Quarian consensus was to not go to war. The admiralty dragged them in, and we shouldn't blame all the Quarians for the poor choices of a few men and women.

which is why i solely blame the admiralty, you would think the civilian board could have done something to prevent a war during the end of the galaxy(reaper invasion)

Sadly, such an apocalyptic scenario would be the perfect grounds for power to be transfered to the military, AKA Han'Gerrel's heavy fleet, and the admiralty already had power over issues of fleet security.  The civilian captains always have the right to leave the flotilla, but in a galaxy occupied by the reapers, going anywhere without military protection is tantamount to suicide.