861 réponses à ce sujet

[Elite Midget]

Brosome wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Brosome wrote...

I'll just say this:

NO ONE deserves extinction.

Though if you had to choose...

I personally would kill of the racist Quarians. They're worthless compared to the surperior Geth, who don't judge and carry out their orders to the very end, and they must live in special suit, where a single tear can kill them, and eat specific food types. The Geth are simply the better choice and also reinforce how wrong the Godchild was about Synthetics.

You disgust me.

You would let both die since you seem to lack the ability to choose. The Racist Quarians who, throughout ME1-ME3, never attempted diplomacy and tried to wipe out the Geth. Even when warned to stop attacking due to GEth upgrading they dig their own grave. The Quarians deserve their extinction due to their inability to let go of their hatred and racist tendencies.

[backlash13]

wantedman dan wrote...

1) There is such a quality as consciencious objection, of which there was none. 

2) There is such a quality as consciencious objection, of which there was none.

1&2) Each and every Quarian that stayed there effectively endorsed the actions of Han'Gerrel. Are you advocating that the SS, who assisted in the Holocaust, should not be to blame because they were just following orders?

3) lolwut? Apparently the delusion of war isn't the only plague you're suffering from. 

We know nothing of how the quarian military works, many cultures in our history have treat CO's badly, when their homeworld is at stake who know what Gerrel or other war advocators will do.

[Exeider]

Esker02 wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Actually, in your squad, everyone is more happy if you kill the Geth.

Yeah, I noticed and enjoyed this too. Only EDI was miffed. Garrus even seemed a litlte happy, and I think Ashley was close to that too if I remember right.

You list good reasons. Unless we're retconning things, the geth committed some serious atrocities on the quarians. Oh it was so kind of them to allow them to flee their impending systematic extinction. There is no indication that when the tides started turning the geth ever offered terms of surrender, or anything close to that. The fact that they had to totally abandon the planet TELLS you just how much undiscriminatory slaughter was going on by the geth on the quarians. They are not innocent, although it can be easy to forget some of this after they poured it on so thick with that collective sequence.

Plus, even their seemingly best and brightest, Legion, eventually succumbed to the desire to incorporate reaper coding into itself. I guess that whole self determination, find your own way thing was empty rhetoric. Then again, for a character that shares its name with a demon we're all very quick to think it so pure and innocent. The geth are species that have displayed at every turn an obsession with the reapers, or at the very least, a willingness to work with them. I'm sorry, but they get no sympathy from me.

don't you all see the back and forth here, Geth kill Quarians and take their land, Quarians kill Geth and take it back.

On and on the cycle goes.  The ultimate goal is to stop the cycle of bloodshed. Because in perpetual war, how can anyone BE FREE? It will always take a back seat to the war.

I don't know how many people worked toward the mutual peace ending for the Q/G War, but I believe it to be the best outcome because both sides stopped fighting, and would of learned to work together had it not been for the Relays going up.

-AE

[Olueq]

wantedman dan wrote...

Olueq wrote...

1. Lol. The quarians were winning and would have won, were it not for the geth allying with the reapers. Again though, the ONLY reasont hey stayed was because of gerrel. So blame HIM, not millions of innocent people. What dont you get?

2. No, they didnt have the option to leave because gerrel forced them stay. Did you even loisten to the dialogue ont he dreadnaught? And again that was 300 years ago, this is now. Use ur brain plox.

3. u mad u wrong?

1) There is such a quality as consciencious objection, of which there was none. 

2) There is such a quality as consciencious objection, of which there was none.

1&2) Each and every Quarian that stayed there effectively endorsed the actions of Han'Gerrel. Are you advocating that the SS, who assisted in the Holocaust, should not be to blame because they were just following orders?

3) lolwut? Apparently the delusion of war isn't the only plague you're suffering from. 

1. Yes, there was. But if the civilian fleet didnt help gerrel they would lose all their defences, not to mention a large portion of their population. Also, if it werent for the reapers they would have won easily.

2. Again, gerrel forced them to stay. The only people you can blame are the member of the heavly fleet for doing what Horis (their admiral) told them to do. Again, you are saying everyone in germany was guily for WW2. or, everyone in the US is guilty for Iraq.

3. I win?

[Elite Midget]

Dranks wrote...

It was a terrible choice to have to make. In the end though I would have to choose Quarians (won't have to though because I make SURE that my Paragon is high enough to broker peace). In the end, despite how terrible I would feel, the geth can be recreated. They are synthetic. If the Quarian race died, they're gone. You can't just rebuild a Quarian. They're gone forever.

Horrible logic. The Quarians started the war and chose to continue the war with no end in sight outside the destruction of the Geth. And like the Geth the Quarians can be remade, through cloning and the process that remade Sheperd in the far future. Though why anyone would want to revive a foolish and racist race is mindblowing.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 09 avril 2012 - 11:46 .

[rex285]

G Kevin wrote...

rex285 wrote...

Olueq wrote...

bclagge wrote...

MY Shep made it clear all along that she supported the Geth in their bid for independence. I never wanted the Quarians to be defeated and attempted to broker peace continually. But at every turn the Quarians ignored my orders and attempted to exterminate the Geth, even to the point of nearly killing me when I was in the Geth Dreadnaught. So when the Quarians were going to take advantage of the Geth's weakened state and exterminate them, behaving as evilly as any cruel conqueror in history, I had no choice but to step in and support the Geth. They brought it upon themselves.

It was a tragedy that Tali took her own life, but ultimately that was pretty selfish of her. Even though her people had (deservedly) been decimated she still had a duty to the entire galaxy, to ME. Are the Quarians all that mattered to her? She abandoned me in my hour of need! In the darkest days of the Reaper invasion! I'm commander ****ing Shepard! I can't believe I meant so little to her, not to mention the rest of the crew. What about poor Garrus? He'll be so lonely.

People like you are disgusting. Yes, millions of innocents deserve to die because of ONE person. Gerrel was the only reason the quarians were still there. The entire civilian fleet didnt even want to fight. Honestly you people are a digrace.

Yes Gerrel pushed for war, but not a SINGLE quarian tried to stop him. The other pilots could have said, "**** this" and left or he could have been imprisoned for trying to drag their entire race into war because as you said, "he was a single person"... But alas, not a single Quarian tried to stop the war besides saying they disagreed. 

It does not work that way. The public DID say that they were against the war but the admirals went on anyway. The thing to keep in mind is the Quarians had nobody left to help them but their leaders. They HAD NO CHOICE.

There were plenty of other Quarians who were on the command deck who could have done something. In most military codes, there is a rule that allows for a mutiny if their CO goes bat**** insane and starting a genocidal war that the majority of the people believe is wrong sounds like a good reason for a mutiny. Besides, as was said, "He was only ONE person.

[wantedman dan]

backlash13 wrote...

We know nothing of how the quarian military works, many cultures in our history have treat CO's badly, when their homeworld is at stake who know what Gerrel or other war advocators will do.

Irrelevant. You either conscienciously stand, or you silently approve in a situation such as that. There is no in between.

[Brosome]

Elite Midget wrote...

Brosome wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Brosome wrote...

I'll just say this:

NO ONE deserves extinction.

Though if you had to choose...

I personally would kill of the racist Quarians. They're worthless compared to the surperior Geth, who don't judge and carry out their orders to the very end, and they must live in special suit, where a single tear can kill them, and eat specific food types. The Geth are simply the better choice and also reinforce how wrong the Godchild was about Synthetics.

You disgust me.

You would let both die since you seem to lack the ability to choose. The Racist Quarians who, throughout ME1-ME3, never attempted diplomacy and tried to wipe out the Geth. Even when warned to stop attacking due to GEth upgrading they dig their own grave. The Quarians deserve their extinction due to their inability to let go of their hatred and racist tendencies.

What? Lack ability to- What?!

I choose peace every damn time. It's the ONLY option that doesn't end with my humanity being destroyed.

[G Kevin]

Dranks wrote...

It was a terrible choice to have to make. In the end though I would have to choose Quarians (won't have to though because I make SURE that my Paragon is high enough to broker peace). In the end, despite how terrible I would feel, the geth can be recreated. They are synthetic. If the Quarian race died, they're gone. You can't just rebuild a Quarian. They're gone forever.

This too. Shepard is in no position to eliminate a certain race from the galaxy.

[Exeider]

Elite Midget wrote...

Brosome wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Brosome wrote...

I'll just say this:

NO ONE deserves extinction.

Though if you had to choose...

I personally would kill of the racist Quarians. They're worthless compared to the surperior Geth, who don't judge and carry out their orders to the very end, and they must live in special suit, where a single tear can kill them, and eat specific food types. The Geth are simply the better choice and also reinforce how wrong the Godchild was about Synthetics.

You disgust me.

You would let both die since you seem to lack the ability to choose. The Racist Quarians who, throughout ME1-ME3, never attempted diplomacy and tried to wipe out the Geth. Even when warned to stop attacking due to GEth upgrading they dig their own grave. The Quarians deserve their extinction due to their inability to let go of their hatred and racist tendencies.

And yet, your statement right there actually feeds the godchild's logic, because in your mind there is no coexistance possible, thus proving the godchild correct, when you know the opposite is in fact true.

Why?

-AE

[fr33stylez]

TudorWolf wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

While I found the Quarians (except Tali and a few others) very annoying, justifying the Geth turning to the Reapers out of 'desperation' is ridiculous.

How many people would be fine if the Krogan turned to the Reapers for help to fight the Salarians? Hell, isn't this what Wrex essentially proposed on Vimire in ME1?

Legion of all people knew the Reapers capabilities. How could he possibly agree? It's like Shepard agreeing with Saren/Synthesis.

As the OP said, the Geth already converted to the Heretics before. And in ME3, they showed that if backed in a corner, they would sign with the most evil entity in the universe. Not really trustworthy to me.

Yo said it yourself, they were backed into a corner. What do you expect them to do, just placidly sit there and let the Quarians genocide them? It's not like anyone is gonna come to their aid. Shepard and co. are the only ones who (potentially) have any idea about the Geth ideology.

Besides, it was the Reapers who extended the offer, the Geth didn't go to them. And Legion also mentions that it wasn't an easy decision to make. When the alternative is extinction, all bets are off

Again, the Reapers are the single most evil entity in the ME trilogy. They're everything you fight again. Shepard HIMSELF (paragon) destroys the Collector base with the principle that goes directly AGAINST what the Geth did.

The Geth were losing a war with the Quarians and made a deal with the Reapers for help.

The Quarians are not innocent, I've  never beleived so. But saying it's okay to go to the Reapers for help when you're backed into a corner goes against everything Shepard has been fighting for over the course of the 3 games.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Olueq wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Answer my two questions. And see where that takes you.

yes and yes.

You did enter the consensus, so you have seen how the geth interpret the Morning War. And you have also played ME1. In that case you also have heard the story from the side of the quarians (Tali). The interesting bit about that is that both parties in the conflict tell the same story. But you are unable to draw the logical conclusions. You can read my post on page one, what that story was.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 09 avril 2012 - 11:54 .

[MakeMineMako]

Peace is THE ONLY OPTION as far as I'm concerned.

The Geth never asked for war. Nor did the Quarian people.

Saving both is they best route to take.

[Elite Midget]

Brosome wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Brosome wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Brosome wrote...

I'll just say this:

NO ONE deserves extinction.

Though if you had to choose...

I personally would kill of the racist Quarians. They're worthless compared to the surperior Geth, who don't judge and carry out their orders to the very end, and they must live in special suit, where a single tear can kill them, and eat specific food types. The Geth are simply the better choice and also reinforce how wrong the Godchild was about Synthetics.

You disgust me.

You would let both die since you seem to lack the ability to choose. The Racist Quarians who, throughout ME1-ME3, never attempted diplomacy and tried to wipe out the Geth. Even when warned to stop attacking due to GEth upgrading they dig their own grave. The Quarians deserve their extinction due to their inability to let go of their hatred and racist tendencies.

What? Lack ability to- What?!

I choose peace every damn time. It's the ONLY option that doesn't end with my humanity being destroyed.

Than why are you even here? I told you that if you HAD to choose between one or the other and you pass it off because you went peace. I'm not discuessing the peace option I'm discuessing the ONE OR THE OTHER option. If you wont partake in that than there's no point in you replying.

[G Kevin]

rex285 wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

rex285 wrote...

Olueq wrote...

bclagge wrote...

MY Shep made it clear all along that she supported the Geth in their bid for independence. I never wanted the Quarians to be defeated and attempted to broker peace continually. But at every turn the Quarians ignored my orders and attempted to exterminate the Geth, even to the point of nearly killing me when I was in the Geth Dreadnaught. So when the Quarians were going to take advantage of the Geth's weakened state and exterminate them, behaving as evilly as any cruel conqueror in history, I had no choice but to step in and support the Geth. They brought it upon themselves.

It was a tragedy that Tali took her own life, but ultimately that was pretty selfish of her. Even though her people had (deservedly) been decimated she still had a duty to the entire galaxy, to ME. Are the Quarians all that mattered to her? She abandoned me in my hour of need! In the darkest days of the Reaper invasion! I'm commander ****ing Shepard! I can't believe I meant so little to her, not to mention the rest of the crew. What about poor Garrus? He'll be so lonely.

People like you are disgusting. Yes, millions of innocents deserve to die because of ONE person. Gerrel was the only reason the quarians were still there. The entire civilian fleet didnt even want to fight. Honestly you people are a digrace.

Yes Gerrel pushed for war, but not a SINGLE quarian tried to stop him. The other pilots could have said, "**** this" and left or he could have been imprisoned for trying to drag their entire race into war because as you said, "he was a single person"... But alas, not a single Quarian tried to stop the war besides saying they disagreed. 

It does not work that way. The public DID say that they were against the war but the admirals went on anyway. The thing to keep in mind is the Quarians had nobody left to help them but their leaders. They HAD NO CHOICE.

There were plenty of other Quarians who were on the command deck who could have done something. In most military codes, there is a rule that allows for a mutiny if their CO goes bat**** insane and starting a genocidal war that the majority of the people believe is wrong sounds like a good reason for a mutiny. Besides, as was said, "He was only ONE person.

And who says the Quarians follow the chain of command like we do now? It's not like the civilians could pack up and leave.

[Olueq]

rex285 wrote...

Olueq wrote...

rex285 wrote...

Olueq wrote...

bclagge wrote...

MY Shep made it clear all along that she supported the Geth in their bid for independence. I never wanted the Quarians to be defeated and attempted to broker peace continually. But at every turn the Quarians ignored my orders and attempted to exterminate the Geth, even to the point of nearly killing me when I was in the Geth Dreadnaught. So when the Quarians were going to take advantage of the Geth's weakened state and exterminate them, behaving as evilly as any cruel conqueror in history, I had no choice but to step in and support the Geth. They brought it upon themselves.

It was a tragedy that Tali took her own life, but ultimately that was pretty selfish of her. Even though her people had (deservedly) been decimated she still had a duty to the entire galaxy, to ME. Are the Quarians all that mattered to her? She abandoned me in my hour of need! In the darkest days of the Reaper invasion! I'm commander ****ing Shepard! I can't believe I meant so little to her, not to mention the rest of the crew. What about poor Garrus? He'll be so lonely.

People like you are disgusting. Yes, millions of innocents deserve to die because of ONE person. Gerrel was the only reason the quarians were still there. The entire civilian fleet didnt even want to fight. Honestly you people are a digrace.

Yes Gerrel pushed for war, but not a SINGLE quarian tried to stop him. The other pilots could have said, "**** this" and left or he could have been imprisoned for trying to drag their entire race into war because as you said, "he was a single person"... But alas, not a single Quarian tried to stop the war besides saying they disagreed.

No, gerrel FORCED them to stay. Do you remember the dialogue ont he dreadnaught. Raan even yelled at him for it.

No, he ordered them to stay. They could have told him to **** off, ignored him, thrown him in the brig, or even killed him, but deep down every Quarian wanted to go along with him or they would have tried to stop him.

No, the entire civilian fleet wanted to leave. You are making rather odd assumptions. It was made very clear on the dreadnaught that he ordered the heavly fleet to stay, whcih would have made the civilian fleet vulnerable, so they HAD to help him. The only ones you can really blame are the members of the heavy fleet, and even then they were just doing what they were ordered to do.

Modifié par Olueq, 09 avril 2012 - 11:50 .

[wantedman dan]

Olueq wrote...

1. Yes, there was. But if the civilian fleet didnt help gerrel they would lose all their defences, not to mention a large portion of their population. Also, if it werent for the reapers they would have won easily.

2. Again, gerrel forced them to stay. The only people you can blame are the member of the heavly fleet for doing what Horis (their admiral) told them to do. Again, you are saying everyone in germany was guily for WW2. or, everyone in the US is guilty for Iraq.

3. I win?

lolno

No, there was an inherent lack of consciencious objection. We heard not of any Quarian ships pulling away out of disgust, or any civilians jumping ship (figuratively, with life pods or what have you). The important distinction you're not making is that not all of the population of Germany or of the United States was, or has ever been, involved in a conflict such as that of the Geth/Quarian war in the examples you stated. 

It's like you're intentionally being this obtuse, but no, you've been arguing this line since the thread's constitution.

[GuardianAngel470]

This boils down to a disturbing question in the end.

Do you judge a group on the merit of their actions or the function of their form?

Whether the OP and the rest of you know this or not, this argument has been going around for years on this forum. Geth or Quarian, Quarian or Geth. Who's right and who's wrong?

Every time, it boils down to a difference of opinion on the above question. Why would I pick a synthetic over an organic? The geth aren't sentient. The geth aren't deserving of protection. If your toaster/computer/phone/electrical-mechanical device gained sentience, you'd freak out.

All of these are old arguments.

Ultimately, the only thing that matters is where you stand on that question.

Answer honestly, if you were part of a single blind experiment in which the actions of two species were presented to you without context on the nature of those species, who would you side with? Species A, the geth, or Species B, the quarians? If all you knew about them was their actions toward each other, who would you side with?

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 09 avril 2012 - 11:50 .

[Mr. C]

G Kevin wrote...

Dranks wrote...

It was a terrible choice to have to make. In the end though I would have to choose Quarians (won't have to though because I make SURE that my Paragon is high enough to broker peace). In the end, despite how terrible I would feel, the geth can be recreated. They are synthetic. If the Quarian race died, they're gone. You can't just rebuild a Quarian. They're gone forever.

This too. Shepard is in no position to eliminate a certain race from the galaxy.

Good thing he doesn't. The Quarians, by Gerral's order, wipes out the Geth. All Shepard does is prevent Legion from uploading the Reaper-Code.  It's closer to murdering your good buddy rather than his entire species!
.............. LEGION WHYYYYY

[Elite Midget]

MakeMineMako wrote...

Peace is THE ONLY OPTION as far as I'm concerned.

The Geth never asked for war. Nor did the Quarian people.

Saving both is they best route to take.

Actually the Quarian People did ask for War, they started it. They support War as well unless you change their views in ME2. In ME3 they're deefault all for war but a small minority just like they were before you talked them out of it in ME2.

[AtreiyaN7]

Shallyah wrote...

You have to be mentally challenged to actually be defending computer programs over intelligent live beings, regardless their mistakes.

That is really all I have to say. I can understand making roleplay choices, like some people chose to shoot Mordin in the back, but if you chose the Geth because you, in real life, believe the Geth have more right to exist, I sure as hell want to know who you are to not have anything to do with you in my life. Might as well go have a drink with Hannibal Lecter or other murdering sociopaths.

You realize, don't you, that we're essentially biological machines with our "programming" stored in our mammalian brains, right? What unmitigated gall to suggest that anyone who believes that all intelligent beings deserve a chance at life is a sociopath. And since I don't like narrow-minded, prejudiced bigots, I'm so glad that I don't have people like you in my life.

[backlash13]

G Kevin wrote...

rex285 wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

rex285 wrote...

Olueq wrote...

bclagge wrote...

MY Shep made it clear all along that she supported the Geth in their bid for independence. I never wanted the Quarians to be defeated and attempted to broker peace continually. But at every turn the Quarians ignored my orders and attempted to exterminate the Geth, even to the point of nearly killing me when I was in the Geth Dreadnaught. So when the Quarians were going to take advantage of the Geth's weakened state and exterminate them, behaving as evilly as any cruel conqueror in history, I had no choice but to step in and support the Geth. They brought it upon themselves.

It was a tragedy that Tali took her own life, but ultimately that was pretty selfish of her. Even though her people had (deservedly) been decimated she still had a duty to the entire galaxy, to ME. Are the Quarians all that mattered to her? She abandoned me in my hour of need! In the darkest days of the Reaper invasion! I'm commander ****ing Shepard! I can't believe I meant so little to her, not to mention the rest of the crew. What about poor Garrus? He'll be so lonely.

People like you are disgusting. Yes, millions of innocents deserve to die because of ONE person. Gerrel was the only reason the quarians were still there. The entire civilian fleet didnt even want to fight. Honestly you people are a digrace.

Yes Gerrel pushed for war, but not a SINGLE quarian tried to stop him. The other pilots could have said, "**** this" and left or he could have been imprisoned for trying to drag their entire race into war because as you said, "he was a single person"... But alas, not a single Quarian tried to stop the war besides saying they disagreed. 

It does not work that way. The public DID say that they were against the war but the admirals went on anyway. The thing to keep in mind is the Quarians had nobody left to help them but their leaders. They HAD NO CHOICE.

There were plenty of other Quarians who were on the command deck who could have done something. In most military codes, there is a rule that allows for a mutiny if their CO goes bat**** insane and starting a genocidal war that the majority of the people believe is wrong sounds like a good reason for a mutiny. Besides, as was said, "He was only ONE person.

And who says the Quarians follow the chain of command like we do now? It's not like the civilians could pack up and leave.

Especially when "packing up and leaving" could result in the destrucition of a huge portion of your population, their government, friends, family, culture and future survival.

[WE_Belisarius]

Some opinions here are very questionable.
Completly black and white picture of the universe...

[Brosome]

Elite Midget wrote...

Brosome wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Brosome wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Brosome wrote...

I'll just say this:

NO ONE deserves extinction.

Though if you had to choose...

I personally would kill of the racist Quarians. They're worthless compared to the surperior Geth, who don't judge and carry out their orders to the very end, and they must live in special suit, where a single tear can kill them, and eat specific food types. The Geth are simply the better choice and also reinforce how wrong the Godchild was about Synthetics.

You disgust me.

You would let both die since you seem to lack the ability to choose. The Racist Quarians who, throughout ME1-ME3, never attempted diplomacy and tried to wipe out the Geth. Even when warned to stop attacking due to GEth upgrading they dig their own grave. The Quarians deserve their extinction due to their inability to let go of their hatred and racist tendencies.

What? Lack ability to- What?!

I choose peace every damn time. It's the ONLY option that doesn't end with my humanity being destroyed.

Than why are you even here? I told you that if you HAD to choose between one or the other and you pass it off because you went peace. I'm not discuessing the peace option I'm discuessing the ONE OR THE OTHER option. If you wont partake in that than there's no point in you replying.

First off, this thread is NOT a "pick quarian or geth" discussion. It's a "Why quarian hate/ geth sympathy" discussion.

... then again, I haven't exactly stayed on THAt topic either...

[Olueq]

wantedman dan wrote...

Olueq wrote...

1. Yes, there was. But if the civilian fleet didnt help gerrel they would lose all their defences, not to mention a large portion of their population. Also, if it werent for the reapers they would have won easily.

2. Again, gerrel forced them to stay. The only people you can blame are the member of the heavly fleet for doing what Horis (their admiral) told them to do. Again, you are saying everyone in germany was guily for WW2. or, everyone in the US is guilty for Iraq.

3. I win?

lolno

No, there was an inherent lack of consciencious objection. We heard not of any Quarian ships pulling away out of disgust, or any civilians jumping ship (figuratively, with life pods or what have you). The important distinction you're not making is that not all of the population of Germany or of the United States was, or has ever been, involved in a conflict such as that of the Geth/Quarian war in the examples you stated. 

It's like you're intentionally being this obtuse, but no, you've been arguing this line since the thread's constitution.

Okay... you HAVE to be trolling. The quarians dont all wnat to fight and that is made obvious. The problem is that all the fleets rely on eachother to survive so the civilian fleet essentially is conscripted to fight for their survival. Again, this is CLEARLY stated on the dreadnaught.