861 réponses à ce sujet

[Aramina]

Sparatus wrote...

I actually find it very disturbing when people brag about wiping out the quarians or geth. Even if they are a fictional race it comes off as very creepy.

Agreed. The hate on both sides of the argument is more than a little disturbing.

[GuardianAngel470]

moater boat wrote...

People are easily brainwashed by Bioware. Most people that can think for themselves would side with the quarians over the Geth.

My sympathy for the geth goes back to Mass Effect 1. Unless you want to tell me that I'm brainwashed because I listened to the conversation between Shepard and Tali on the geth, information that is presented to the player as fact, and that I should instead hate the geth regardless of what information I've been presented with about Bioware's universe, then I don't think your argument applies to me.

[4stringwizard]

Elite Midget wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

I forgot to add one more point: the Geth DO end up committing genocide if you side with them over the Quarians. So it seems the Geth are just as capable of the Quarians of committing atrocities.

Again, at best, both sides are equally peaceful/barbaric.

I suppose I should also give my stance too: if forced to choose, I definitely would have chosen the Quarians.

It was self-defence and the Geth were in the moment of being upgraded and breaking free from Reaper control. THey had no control on their actions, they acted  out of instict to perserve themselves. This is made adamantly clear in the Peace option where the Geth ignore the Quarian fleet when the Quarians pull back.

The Quarians on the other hand attack if you pick one or the other. The Geth aren't at fault even when their hand was forced because when the Quarians pull back no race is wiped out.

And the Geth respond by wiping out the Quarians if Shepard sides with the Geth....

Surprised if you haven't found the flaw in your own logic yet.  Oh, and it IS the Geth's fault.  They sided with the Reapers.  They could have tried to be diplomatic with the Quarians and said they wanted peace.  They could have tried to communicate before making the decisions.  Heck, they could have even fought the Reapers.  But they didn't.  They took the easy way out, in a sense. 

Modifié par 4stringwizard, 10 avril 2012 - 12:01 .

[wantedman dan]

Olueq wrote...

The geth are the only ones that willingly side with the reapers on a constant basis. The only thing the other races really have to worry about is indoctrination, which really isnt a problem in ship combat.

Yeah, only "true" believers of the cause, right?

[G Kevin]

Elite Midget wrote...

Exeider wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Brosome wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Brosome wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Brosome wrote...

I'll just say this:

NO ONE deserves extinction.

Though if you had to choose...

I personally would kill of the racist Quarians. They're worthless compared to the surperior Geth, who don't judge and carry out their orders to the very end, and they must live in special suit, where a single tear can kill them, and eat specific food types. The Geth are simply the better choice and also reinforce how wrong the Godchild was about Synthetics.

You disgust me.

You would let both die since you seem to lack the ability to choose. The Racist Quarians who, throughout ME1-ME3, never attempted diplomacy and tried to wipe out the Geth. Even when warned to stop attacking due to GEth upgrading they dig their own grave. The Quarians deserve their extinction due to their inability to let go of their hatred and racist tendencies.

What? Lack ability to- What?!

I choose peace every damn time. It's the ONLY option that doesn't end with my humanity being destroyed.

Than why are you even here? I told you that if you HAD to choose between one or the other and you pass it off because you went peace. I'm not discuessing the peace option I'm discuessing the ONE OR THE OTHER option. If you wont partake in that than there's no point in you replying.

then the logic of your question is circular because there is IN FACT a third option, in fact in reality there are limitless options available but only one outcome.

To directly answer your question, the answer is NONE, I wouldn't sacrifice one over the other, because in either case it's just wrong!!!!

-AE

False, that third option isn't open for most players or any new players. Either address the question or stop replying. I'm through trying to dish out logic with close minded people.

Not that anyone in here is close-minded in here but you can't dish out logic with close-minded people.

Just saying.

[rex285]

Olueq wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Olueq wrote...

Okay... you HAVE to be trolling. The quarians dont all wnat to fight and that is made obvious. The problem is that all the fleets rely on eachother to survive so the civilian fleet essentially is conscripted to fight for their survival. Again, this is CLEARLY stated on the dreadnaught.

Irony: I thought that about you, too. That does not, however, mitigate the fact that not wanting to fight and fighting still =/= consciencious objection.

Sorry for that inherent weakness in their society and their obvious flaw in strategy, but consequences matter.

If the civilian fleet dosnt help then the heavy fleet is destroyed and the then the civilian fleet defenceless and then is also destroyed. This is stated in game. SO the civilian fleet didnt have a choice. By your logic, either they died fighting, or they died running.

By your logic, Civilians are needed to defend Tanks because without civilans taking the damage the tanks can't defend the civilians.... 

[Brosome]

As far as I'm concerned, there is no choice between the quarians or the geth.

There is only one correct option, and that is peace. None of that "oh, well they started it!" or "they're just machines!" bull****.

If you find you can't broker peace, then get off your lazy ass, pop back in ME2, sit back down on your lazy ass, and fix your sh*t.

Oh, and while you're there, let Samara punch the **** out of Morinth's face.

[Topsider]

It's a real world vs videogame choice. In a game, you know there's not going to be serious consequences choosing one side or the other, except for a pretty cutscene. So you get these purely hypothetical arguments when nothing is on the line.

Now apply it to the real world. Millions of lives are at stake. No-one in their right mind would support a potentially dangerous race of synthetics whose motivations aren't fully understood. 

[wantedman dan]

Olueq wrote...

If the civilian fleet dosnt help then the heavy fleet is destroyed and the then the civilian fleet defenceless and then is also destroyed. This is stated in game. SO the civilian fleet didnt have a choice. By your logic, either they died fighting, or they died running.

Sorry for your luck. Shouldn't have gone in half-assed into a war; you truly are naïve.

[4stringwizard]

fr33stylez wrote...

MakeMineMako wrote...

Peace is THE ONLY OPTION as far as I'm concerned.

The Geth never asked for war. Nor did the Quarian people.

Saving both is they best route to take.

Of course. This should be the desired route to take.

But I think the focus of the thread is how the Geth's transgression are largely ignored, while the Quarians are villified.

Personally, they both have made terrible mistakes. The Quarians (at least their leadership) has continually been the agressor in the conflict.

The Geth ahve shown a propoensity to side with the Reapers on more than one occasaion.

^^^ THIS.  The whole point is how so many people seem to miss the Geth's mistakes while focusing solely on the Quarians'. 

[Elite Midget]

Sparatus wrote...

I actually find it very disturbing when people brag about wiping out the quarians or geth. Even if they are a fictional race it comes off as very creepy.

It's nott bragging, it's logic. THe Geth are the victims and the Quarians are digging their own grave. As shown in Peace where when the Quarians pull out the Geth LET THEM LIVE. Yet if you pick Quarians they wipe out the Geth than throw a huge party, where if you choose the Geth the Quarians attack and are wiped out.

The Quarians were in the wrong, their pulling out was the only way to end the conflict however unless you imported they all want the Geth destroyed even at the cost of their own lives.

[Tank207]

I chose peace. Regardless of what side did what to the other, genocide isn't acceptable. Which also meant that the 'destroy' ending wasn't an option for me.

[Olueq]

wantedman dan wrote...

Olueq wrote...

The geth are the only ones that willingly side with the reapers on a constant basis. The only thing the other races really have to worry about is indoctrination, which really isnt a problem in ship combat.

Yeah, only "true" believers of the cause, right?

Lets see... the geth have willingly sided with the reapers twice and have been brainwashed (or at least would have if not for shepard) twice as well. If anything, the geth are a liability.

Modifié par Olueq, 10 avril 2012 - 12:04 .

[Aramina]

4stringwizard wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

I forgot to add one more point: the Geth DO end up committing genocide if you side with them over the Quarians. So it seems the Geth are just as capable of the Quarians of committing atrocities.

Again, at best, both sides are equally peaceful/barbaric.

I suppose I should also give my stance too: if forced to choose, I definitely would have chosen the Quarians.

It was self-defence and the Geth were in the moment of being upgraded and breaking free from Reaper control. THey had no control on their actions, they acted  out of instict to perserve themselves. This is made adamantly clear in the Peace option where the Geth ignore the Quarian fleet when the Quarians pull back.

The Quarians on the other hand attack if you pick one or the other. The Geth aren't at fault even when their hand was forced because when the Quarians pull back no race is wiped out.

And the Geth respond by wiping out the Quarians if Shepard sides with the Geth....

Surprised if you haven't found the flaw in your own logic yet.  Oh, and it IS the Geth's fault.  They sided with the Reapers.  They could have tried to be diplomatic with the Quarians and said they wanted peace.  They could have tried to communicate before making the decisions.  Heck, they could have even fought the Reapers.  But they didn't.  They took the easy way out, in a sense. 

If you bring Legion with you in Tali's ME2 loyalty mission, he flat out says the Geth are willing to make peace....and most of the Quarians don't believe him. If someone is trying to wipe out your entire species, how many times are you supposed to sue for peace before it's "morally acceptible" to fight back?

Modifié par Aramina, 10 avril 2012 - 12:06 .

[G Kevin]

rex285 wrote...

Olueq wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

Olueq wrote...

Okay... you HAVE to be trolling. The quarians dont all wnat to fight and that is made obvious. The problem is that all the fleets rely on eachother to survive so the civilian fleet essentially is conscripted to fight for their survival. Again, this is CLEARLY stated on the dreadnaught.

Irony: I thought that about you, too. That does not, however, mitigate the fact that not wanting to fight and fighting still =/= consciencious objection.

Sorry for that inherent weakness in their society and their obvious flaw in strategy, but consequences matter.

If the civilian fleet dosnt help then the heavy fleet is destroyed and the then the civilian fleet defenceless and then is also destroyed. This is stated in game. SO the civilian fleet didnt have a choice. By your logic, either they died fighting, or they died running.

By your logic, Civilians are needed to defend Tanks because without civilans taking the damage the tanks can't defend the civilians.... 

Civilians either fight with their tanks and try to survive or flee while the enemy tanks completly annihilate you.

[Elite Midget]

4stringwizard wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

MakeMineMako wrote...

Peace is THE ONLY OPTION as far as I'm concerned.

The Geth never asked for war. Nor did the Quarian people.

Saving both is they best route to take.

Of course. This should be the desired route to take.

But I think the focus of the thread is how the Geth's transgression are largely ignored, while the Quarians are villified.

Personally, they both have made terrible mistakes. The Quarians (at least their leadership) has continually been the agressor in the conflict.

The Geth ahve shown a propoensity to side with the Reapers on more than one occasaion.

^^^ THIS.  The whole point is how so many people seem to miss the Geth's mistakes while focusing solely on the Quarians'. 

Heretics served the Reapers, a minority. The rest stayed on their planet and fought the Reaper control. In ME3 they were forced to serve the Reapers due to Quarians threatening Genocide. The Quarians were at fault YET AGAIN.

[4stringwizard]

wantedman dan wrote...

Olueq wrote...

If the civilian fleet dosnt help then the heavy fleet is destroyed and the then the civilian fleet defenceless and then is also destroyed. This is stated in game. SO the civilian fleet didnt have a choice. By your logic, either they died fighting, or they died running.

Sorry for your luck. Shouldn't have gone in half-assed into a war; you truly are naïve.

They didn't.  The Geth only gained the upper hand when they sided with the Reapers.  Hello?

And that doesn't justify genocide of the Quarians, or mean the Geth were innocent.  

[rex285]

4stringwizard wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

I forgot to add one more point: the Geth DO end up committing genocide if you side with them over the Quarians. So it seems the Geth are just as capable of the Quarians of committing atrocities.

Again, at best, both sides are equally peaceful/barbaric.

I suppose I should also give my stance too: if forced to choose, I definitely would have chosen the Quarians.

It was self-defence and the Geth were in the moment of being upgraded and breaking free from Reaper control. THey had no control on their actions, they acted  out of instict to perserve themselves. This is made adamantly clear in the Peace option where the Geth ignore the Quarian fleet when the Quarians pull back.

The Quarians on the other hand attack if you pick one or the other. The Geth aren't at fault even when their hand was forced because when the Quarians pull back no race is wiped out.

And the Geth respond by wiping out the Quarians if Shepard sides with the Geth....

Surprised if you haven't found the flaw in your own logic yet.  Oh, and it IS the Geth's fault.  They sided with the Reapers.  They could have tried to be diplomatic with the Quarians and said they wanted peace.  They could have tried to communicate before making the decisions.  Heck, they could have even fought the Reapers.  But they didn't.  They took the easy way out, in a sense. 

That's what they WANTED... The Geth didn't go to the reapers until the Dyson Sphere was destroyed, similar to NYC being hit by an ICBM. The Geth had no intention of starting a war. If the U.S. was attacked, or any country for that matter, I Guarentee you that they will respond with full and unrelenting force.

[4stringwizard]

Elite Midget wrote...

Heretics served the Reapers, a minority. The rest stayed on their planet and fought the Reaper control. In ME3 they were forced to serve the Reapers due to Quarians threatening Genocide. The Quarians were at fault YET AGAIN.

They weren't forced.  THEY CHOSE.  They had other options.  They just didn't use them. 

/Logic

[Elite Midget]

4stringwizard wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

I forgot to add one more point: the Geth DO end up committing genocide if you side with them over the Quarians. So it seems the Geth are just as capable of the Quarians of committing atrocities.

Again, at best, both sides are equally peaceful/barbaric.

I suppose I should also give my stance too: if forced to choose, I definitely would have chosen the Quarians.

It was self-defence and the Geth were in the moment of being upgraded and breaking free from Reaper control. THey had no control on their actions, they acted  out of instict to perserve themselves. This is made adamantly clear in the Peace option where the Geth ignore the Quarian fleet when the Quarians pull back.

The Quarians on the other hand attack if you pick one or the other. The Geth aren't at fault even when their hand was forced because when the Quarians pull back no race is wiped out.

And the Geth respond by wiping out the Quarians if Shepard sides with the Geth....

Surprised if you haven't found the flaw in your own logic yet.  Oh, and it IS the Geth's fault.  They sided with the Reapers.  They could have tried to be diplomatic with the Quarians and said they wanted peace.  They could have tried to communicate before making the decisions.  Heck, they could have even fought the Reapers.  But they didn't.  They took the easy way out, in a sense. 

You read nothing. If you aren't going to read than do yourself a favor and stop wasteing everyones time.

[Raiil]

I sympathise with the Quarians because having to spend your entire life Saran-wrapped for your own protection would massively suck. I sympathise with the Geth because the threat of being destroyed just as your starting to live would also massively suck.

I do not believe in revisiting the sins of the father, and those actually, initially responsible for setting the whole scenario up are now long dead. Peace must be achieved; the galaxy would never accept the Geth long term for blowing the Quarians up and out of existence, and the galaxy would never truly learn (in my opinion) the benefits and truth of real AI.


And even if I had to choose, my answer could never be easily summed up. Let the Geth destroy innocents, let the Quarians destroy those they created. I'll be honest and say my natural sympathies lie with the Geth, but it's not a black and white issue and really shouldn't be treated as one.

[G Kevin]

Aramina wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

I forgot to add one more point: the Geth DO end up committing genocide if you side with them over the Quarians. So it seems the Geth are just as capable of the Quarians of committing atrocities.

Again, at best, both sides are equally peaceful/barbaric.

I suppose I should also give my stance too: if forced to choose, I definitely would have chosen the Quarians.

It was self-defence and the Geth were in the moment of being upgraded and breaking free from Reaper control. THey had no control on their actions, they acted  out of instict to perserve themselves. This is made adamantly clear in the Peace option where the Geth ignore the Quarian fleet when the Quarians pull back.

The Quarians on the other hand attack if you pick one or the other. The Geth aren't at fault even when their hand was forced because when the Quarians pull back no race is wiped out.

And the Geth respond by wiping out the Quarians if Shepard sides with the Geth....

Surprised if you haven't found the flaw in your own logic yet.  Oh, and it IS the Geth's fault.  They sided with the Reapers.  They could have tried to be diplomatic with the Quarians and said they wanted peace.  They could have tried to communicate before making the decisions.  Heck, they could have even fought the Reapers.  But they didn't.  They took the easy way out, in a sense. 

If you bring Legion with you in Tali's ME2 loyalty mission, he flat out says the Geth are willing to make peace....and most of the Quarians don't believe him. If someone is trying to wipe out your enite species, how many times are you supposed to sue for peace before it's "morally acceptible" to fight back?

Trying to say Geth are peaceful when they were killing Quarians on another ship is hardly convincing.

[Olueq]

Aramina wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

I forgot to add one more point: the Geth DO end up committing genocide if you side with them over the Quarians. So it seems the Geth are just as capable of the Quarians of committing atrocities.

Again, at best, both sides are equally peaceful/barbaric.

I suppose I should also give my stance too: if forced to choose, I definitely would have chosen the Quarians.

It was self-defence and the Geth were in the moment of being upgraded and breaking free from Reaper control. THey had no control on their actions, they acted  out of instict to perserve themselves. This is made adamantly clear in the Peace option where the Geth ignore the Quarian fleet when the Quarians pull back.

The Quarians on the other hand attack if you pick one or the other. The Geth aren't at fault even when their hand was forced because when the Quarians pull back no race is wiped out.

And the Geth respond by wiping out the Quarians if Shepard sides with the Geth....

Surprised if you haven't found the flaw in your own logic yet.  Oh, and it IS the Geth's fault.  They sided with the Reapers.  They could have tried to be diplomatic with the Quarians and said they wanted peace.  They could have tried to communicate before making the decisions.  Heck, they could have even fought the Reapers.  But they didn't.  They took the easy way out, in a sense. 

If you bring Legion with you in Tali's ME2 loyalty mission, he flat out says the Geth are willing to make peace....and most of the Quarians don't believe him. If someone is trying to wipe out your enite species, how many times are you supposed to sue for peace before it's "morally acceptible" to fight back?

The geth never try to negotiate. The only contact anyone ever gets with the geth is throught the heretic so how can you blame people for not trusting the geth? Would you really go against everything you ahve been told and ever expereience you have everr had with the geth just because ONE geth syas otherwise? The fact that shepard just believes legion right away proves how stupid he is.

[MakeMineMako]

Elite Midget wrote...

MakeMineMako wrote...

Peace is THE ONLY OPTION as far as I'm concerned.

The Geth never asked for war. Nor did the Quarian people.

Saving both is they best route to take.

Actually the Quarian People did ask for War, they started it. They support War as well unless you change their views in ME2. In ME3 they're deefault all for war but a small minority just like they were before you talked them out of it in ME2.

In fact, that is exactly what I did in ME2.

Everybody needed to be concerned with the REAL THREAT. Which would be the Reapers.

The Quarian invasion was a useless waste in a time when the Galaxy is burning. But I guess when things go to sh*t is when people tend to take more stupid pills than normal. Just look at Cerberus, and where their playing with fire got them.

And that is just on top of the questionable desire to wipe out one race or another, when there are options to work for.

[Elite Midget]

4stringwizard wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Heretics served the Reapers, a minority. The rest stayed on their planet and fought the Reaper control. In ME3 they were forced to serve the Reapers due to Quarians threatening Genocide. The Quarians were at fault YET AGAIN.

They weren't forced.  THEY CHOSE.  They had other options.  They just didn't use them. 

/Logic

No, they were forced. The Quarians were threatening to wipe them out and Legion was captured and forced to feed information to push the Geth to join the Reapers. Had the Geth not obeyed the Quarians would have wiped them out.