11 réponses à ce sujet

[Leafs43]

Destroying the mass relays doesn't magically open another door.

The reapers are considered  close to perfection and far more advanced than any current species and they still use the mass relay network for the main way of travel.  They use the citadel as a giant mass relay in ME1.  They use the alpha relay in ME2 arrival's dlc.  So it is canon that the reapers use the mass relay system.


So by saying the mass relays are optional, you admit that the citadel races, which are considerably less advanced than the reapers, can somehow think up of a better idea for travel.  That idea is complete horse pockey and deserves to be rejected as a logical conclusion..

[Allan Schumacher]

Delta_V2 wrote...

See, I never saw the need to destroy the Relays.  Sure, it was likely by the end of the game, but I didn't see it as a necessity.  The Relays are just tools, and weren't inherently evil.  They were used for an evil purpose by the Reapers, but if you can get rid of the Reapers, I see no reason not to use these tools.

I don't know if it's so much as "choosing" to destroy the relays, but rather it was just a consequence that would happen when the Crucible fired.

I'm sure if civilizations could still use them, they wouldn't have any issues with it.  JMO.

[Allan Schumacher]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

But the Relays were designed so the Reapers can control us. Remember what Sovereign said?

Yes the tech is not inherently bad, but we didn't earn it, and the Reapers used that fact to exploit us.

To be fair, though, the Reapers are no longer a part of the equation.  That they have tools left behind that we find convenient I think makes their existence inconsequential.  Even if it makes us ignore other alternatives to transportation technology.

[Allan Schumacher]

Warrior Craess wrote...

But then we get into the mechanics of why the relays explode. As far as I can see with out there being a significant explosion (nova level as opposed to supernova - but everyones still screwed anyway.) there really isn't any reason for the relays to explode. 

This is something I haven't given too much thought of, because a device like the Crucible is innately impossible to understand.  Which is my reservation for it being the primary plot device in the main game, but it's what we're given so we have to go with it.

[Allan Schumacher]

Leafs43 wrote...

Read the post above.


The reapers couldn't even figure that out.


It's utmost hubris to believe after millions of years after inventing the mass relays, the reapers copuldn't make that technological leap, yet somehow humans, who have been in space for maybe 200 years if you want to go back to the 1960's that really have no idea how mass relays really work can make that leap in a couple of months.

What's the prevent the current cycle from replicating (or near replicating) the Mass Relays themselves?

[Allan Schumacher]

DaeJi wrote...

Nothing, and in fact if the Relays remained destroyed after the Extended Cut DLC that's probably what BioWare will have the galaxy do next. Which, again, makes destroying them pointless.

You'll need to elaborate on the "pointlessness" of it.  I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.  Having the galaxy recover from the aftermath of the reaper conflict, even if it means the reconstruction of the relays, doesn't strike me as being something that is pointless.  It's just part of the narrative, and if we want to drill down far enough we could argue that any piece of fiction is pointless.

We do know that Reapers are still active between harvestings, even
if at a reduced levels. Look at the Collectors, beings who ran
experiments for the Reapers. As well, the codex also mentions that the Reapers don't really need to use the Relays but use them anyway due to convenience.

Wouldn't the bolded indicate that the Relays aren't a requirement then?

[Allan Schumacher]

DaeJi wrote...

I agree with the premature sarcasm, but it's okay I'm sure you'll get the hang of it. And yes, Harbinger was active. The Reapers were active in that case, just not all of them or most of them. Harbinger is not an island, he is part of the Reapers forces and likely their leader after Starchild. What he does isn't of benefit to him alone.

Was this ever really disputed though?  Weren't the Reapers "awakened" in the end of ME1, with the collectors running around in ME2?

(I'll admit I'm probably much less versed in the details of the lore than others, so I may be mistaken)

[Allan Schumacher]

DaeJi wrote...

I find it pointless in the sense of the narrative. Why have an action take place if that action is then undone. It would be better to not have that situation at all and instead devote resources to an action that will have a more lasting effect. Rebuilding the Relays makes their destruction pointless since there is no narrative fallout save a time lag in restoring the status quo. A better action to take would have been to destroy Earth but keep the Relays, since you cannot rebuild a planet.

This is not really an uncommon event in any sort of narrative, because it's not really an uncommon event in our reality.

I think it's safe to say that the relays aren't going to be rebuilt tomorrow, and I think everyone can agree that the current rate of travel is very complicating to the galaxy right now.  The only real benefit is that we can still communicate in real time.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 10 avril 2012 - 05:03 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Geneaux486 wrote...

No you're right about that, but it wasn't what we were arguing.  I pointed out that the Reapers are in hibernation between cycles, and DaeJi said that the Collectors being active was proof that all the Reapers were at least still partly active in between cycles.  They still very well could be, but the Collectors and Harbinger's controlling them are not proof of that. 

Hmmm, what were the collectors doing before the Reapers were reawakened?  Is it really a reflection that the Reapers were partially active?

[Allan Schumacher]

Ubergrog wrote...

A good question, allow me to provide the list of current stalls on such an endeavor.

1. (and this is the most important) The entire galactic infrastructure has been smashed to tiny bits. Fuel stations, mining operations, shipyards... most have been reduced to rubble. In order for something so large as a mass relay to be built, it needs to have these resources avaliable and in large numbers to make it possible.

Societies throughout history have recovered after being ravaged through war.

2. No one has ever actually studied how the mass relays work(though they may have theories), they know how to turn them on, and off. Now, they are all floating bits of useless junk in space, unless the effects of their destruction did not result in the delicate internal systems being also smashed to bits.

I'm not sure why this would prevent another species from ever developing it.  It makes the assumption that only the Reapers were capable of building them.

3. They have more pressing matters to worry about. Continuation and conservation of ecosystems, governments and culture. Refugee support, rebuilding and security.  They probably are more concerned with making sure the two or three billion of each race currently without food or shelter can survive when the centers of their empires have been reduced to blasted pieces of rubble.

I don't think anyone has said that it'd be something that starts tomorrow.

That's three good reasons. want more?

Sure.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 10 avril 2012 - 05:21 .

[Allan Schumacher]

in the mean time, a galactic holocaust is going on, resources will be razor thin, and really those same scientists attention, assuming they are still alive will be required for other more immediate concerns.

I suppose it would depend on how much value the other species would have on getting home at all costs (if any).

I agree it won't be happening overnight.

[Allan Schumacher]

Exeider wrote...

Doesn't matter what the value is, it doesn't change the amount of resources you have access to.

Of course it matters.  If they deem it the top priority, it's what they'll focus their efforts on.

Earth; is about to have to try and take cake of a few million new residents, some of which cannot eat Earth based food, plus it has been seriously damaged, also there is no Eezo deposits in Sol, so they are going to have to go get it if they are going to rebuild their relay (assuming they can rebuild them at all)

Earth also has also lost its share of residents.  As did the fleet up above.  I believe two Quarian live ships came as well, and if they survived (I love this idea as a consequence to Koris being rescued), they're able to provide food for the Dextro based races.

Colonies (ANY RACE): these places are short on supplies as it is, consisting of colonists ranging in the dozens, to hundreds sometimes thousands, but they do not have major infrastructure or starships so there fore expecting them to rebuild their relays is all but impossible, hell travel to nearby systems may also be exceedingly difficult.

Other race's homeworlds: depending on what race your talking about will determine if they have the technological capacity or know how to rebuild their relays.

Rannoch: The quarians just got back there, assuming the civilian fleet was left behind while the military fleet went to earth, the quarians have NO infrastructure on this planet, they won't be rebuilding ANYTHING for quite some time.

Tuchanka: Is a nuclear wasted hell hole, plus have you ever met a Krogan Scientist? yeah, me neither.

Sur'kesh: Ah the Salarians, if anyone could bail us out it's the Salarian scientists, right? Well, while they have the intelligence they do not have the know how to rebuild a mass relay, they don't have major Eezo deposits for it's core, and they can't communicate that infomation to anyone else.

I stopped here because I've heard otherwise regarding communications.  Why wouldn't they be able to communicate?