440 réponses à ce sujet

[Geneaux486]

Excpet the billion year old race's backup plan is what we currently have.

It would make no sense for the reapers to simply sit on outdated FTL technology for billions of years though.

Their main purpose is to reap, and being faster would help with that. They would instinctively gravitate towards trying to improve themselves in that area. Yet the best they could come up with is the Relay's and FTL at 30 lys.

For billions of years they could do no better than double our standard FTL(outside of relays), why do you think that the curernt civilization can do better in much(did I mention MUCH?) less time than that?

You're assuming that the Reapers were trying to come up with faster means of travel than what they had, but there is no evidence to support this. When their trap is sprung perfectly, it doesn't matter how fast they are, because they're using the Mass Relays to hit each system immediately one after another. When they aren't, as you put it, "reaping", they conserve their resources by hibernating in dark space. Vigil said this itself.

[taliefer]

even if they manage to somehow give a plausible reason for travel without the relays....i dont like the idea of mass effect, without the mass relays. the intro of the first game introduces us to the technology of the mass relays and names the series after it. without the mass relays, mass effect becomes a star wars clone(with a better explanation of the force, aka biotics, but still a star wars clone). like stargate without the stargates.

sure they can go that route if they want....but id lose all interest in any further stories in the mass effect universe

[Exeider]

@ Everyone,

The overall logistics problems include
1) Knowledge of relay principles and construction
2) Capability of Relay Construction
3) Ability of moving relay or construction fleet out to relay build site.
4) Resources to build Relays

So even if we KNEW how to build these damn things, there is still the problem of factories to build the components, resources for the relays (mainly the Humongous Eezo cores), and moving them out to the relay site that you want OR sending a fleet to build them on site, in which case the fleet has to find the resources on site or close to site, or bring it with them.

the long and short of it, is that to rebuild this system is going to take lots of time, if they could do it at all.

-AE

[Exeider]

@ Everyone,

I just thought of something, this is extremely cheesy, but I'm sure bioware will use it, given their penchant for cheeze. but I'm sure they will invent something to explain how the Citadel got to Earth so quickly, and in effect state that, "Oh gee, we can use XXXX to get the Mass Relays out to their location, uh-hyuk."

-AE

Modifié par Exeider, 10 avril 2012 - 02:36 .

[Palathas]

Exeider wrote...

@ Everyone,

I just thought of something, this is extremely cheesy, but I'm sure bioware will use it, given their penchant for cheeze. but I'm sure they will invent something to explain how the Citadel got to Earth so quickly, and in effect state that, "Oh gee, we can use XXXX to get the Mass Relays out to their location, uh-hyuk."

-AE

Well the Citadel is it's own mass relay so it hurled itself at the Sol realy....

[CapnManx]

Fawx9 wrote...



Excpet the billion year old race's backup plan is what we currently have.

It would make no sense for the reapers to simply sit on outdated FTL technology for billions of years though.

Their main purpose is to reap, and being faster would help with that. They would instinctively gravitate towards trying to improve themselves in that area. Yet the best they could come up with is the Relay's and FTL at 30 lys. 

For billions of years they could do no better than double our standard FTL(outside of relays), why do you think that the curernt civilization can do better in much(did I mention MUCH?) less time than that?

You assume the Reapers do things like research new technology and try to improve themselves (even if it's just making themselves better at killing stuff).  I've always seen Reapers as stagnation in giant cuttlefish form.

They just show up, kill things, make new Reapers, then go back to sleep for fifty thousand years.  They do not behave like a normal intelligent species; despite their ability to strategise and communicate.  They are simply a hegemonising swarm with a superiority complex.

[Alessar1288]

The reapers wanted civilizations to continue to use the relays to keep them to a network they could control. If technology doesn't ever differentiate or try to exceed what is already available it makes the reapers job of harvesting and destroying civilization that much easier.

If you destroyed all technology and had to start from scratch there is no guarantee that you reach the end goal through the same steps.

[Exeider]

taliefer wrote...

even if they manage to somehow give a plausible reason for travel without the relays....i dont like the idea of mass effect, without the mass relays. the intro of the first game introduces us to the technology of the mass relays and names the series after it. without the mass relays, mass effect becomes a star wars clone(with a better explanation of the force, aka biotics, but still a star wars clone). like stargate without the stargates.

sure they can go that route if they want....but id lose all interest in any further stories in the mass effect universe

damn striaght, i said the same thing, stargate without stargates. It loses its charm. the whole idea of the mass relay harkens back to the day of Babylon 5 and the JumpGate.

-AE

[Geneaux486]

Okay, found a decent clip of Legion explaining multiple technological paths. Hopefully this will explain what I've been saying a little better:

Modifié par Geneaux486, 10 avril 2012 - 02:42 .

[CapnManx]

Exeider wrote...


Not a poor estimate, if you look at the map, the crescent nebula is in the wrong place, its located 90 degrees clockwise from Sol on the galactic plane.

the REAL crescent nebula is only 5k LY away, but I'm talking about using the ME galactic map, its in the wrong place and its WAY farther away then its supposed to be.

your 10 year estimate is based off constant speed, FTL cores can ONLY OPERATE FOR 50 HOURS and must be shutdown and discharged. And since discharge sites are not located in the void between galactic arms, You must travel up one arm out to the arm in question you want to travel to, and then down that arm to your destination.

-AE

That's true of most of the real locations noted on the ME map.  The Rosetta Nebula is only 5200 ly from Earth, but it's one of Rannoch's closest neighbours.

[Nobrandminda]

 I don't know if it's been brought up in this thread already, but consider this:

Sovereign considered it easier to resurrect an extinct species so he could have someone mind meld with it, rather than fly to Ilos from the next closest relay.

If Mass Relays were merely convenient as opposed to necessary, here's how Mass Effect 1 would have gone:  

Presumably, Saren figured out where Ilos was thanks to the Eden Prime beacon.  He may not have known where the Mu Relay was, but who cares?  With Sovereign's cruising speed of 30 Lightyears per day, they could get from the Hawking Eta Cluster to the Pangea Expanse in a matter of months.  He could have set out immediately, stopping just long enough to destroy the Virmire Beacon and phone in his testimony to the Council.  

Shepard would have wasted all of his time looking for Saren, because he has to be somewhere right?  He didn't just fly off into uncharted space, that would be crazy!  The codex says so.  You never know when you might run into a black hole or something... unless you're a reaper in which case you have better knowledge of the galaxy than all of the spacefaring races combined.  A few months later Sovereign would have gotten to Ilos, dropped Saren off, taken the Mass Relay back into known space, met up with his geth forces, and coordinated his attack on the citadel, all without anyone, not even Shepard, having any idea what was coming.

Modifié par Nobrandminda, 10 avril 2012 - 02:43 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

Fawx9 wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

SaladinDheonqar wrote...

It will be quite tragic if they go back on what they've already established to try and fix the mess that is the ending. I fear this is indeed what they'll do though, for how can it salvaged any other way?. Perhaps they think we're stupid enough to buy it, or maybe they just don't give a damn. One thing I know for sure: more space magic ain't going to fix a damn thing.

They aren't going back on anything. DO THE DAMN MATH.

Sorry, I'm losing patience.

Thew codex and in game characters clearly state it takes decades- centuries to cross the galaxy.
Just because you can theoretically do it in less time (one way trip, trading in real time is still screwed), doesn't mean it's actually viable.

Point a) If you can't dischangre because you ran into a patch of darkspace bewteen nebulas you're dead. It deosn't matter if you had the supplies you simply got unlucky.

It's going to take centuries simply to get new trade routes up and running which are safe to travel along.

So, If I answer your first point for a second time, will you read what I wrote then?

"Point a)" Yep. You got me. A telescope and 5000 years of Starcharts pshh, no one could figure out how to use those. It's best to hope for the best and fly off randomly: there's no way to see stars ahead of time

*Face Desk*
*Face Desk*
*Face Desk*

Yes, it will take some time to set Galactic civilization back up. Your point?

[Exeider]

My attempt at a mass relay, anybody know ascii art and could make a better one?

==ʘ======

-AE

[KingDan97]

LucasShark wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

The Mass Relays are convenient in that they can get you from point A to point B from system to system without you having to use your fuel for it. The Reapers kept them around because they were ideal not only for transportation but also for setting their traps. Organics have not developed other ways yet not because they can't, but because they've not tried. The relays to most are simply a useful travel network passed down from a previous race, no reason to fix what doesn't look broken.  So no, rejecting the idea that there are other ways to travel through the galaxy is not the logical route to take.

So you honestly think NO-ONE looked into it?  I mean seriously: bypassing the current barriers to exploration into the untapped depths of the galaxy and simaltainously bypassing the major choke points of armed conflict has no humongous pay-off?

You have near instantaneous travel across hundreds if not thousands of lightyears. No. You would not look at alternatives "just cuz".

[RogueBot]

Didn't it say in the script that Stargazer came 10,000 years after ME3? If that was true, then Bioware/Patrick Weekes' statement that Relays aren't necessary is probably more due to fan backlash than anything else.

But whatever. If Bioware says they're optional, then they're optional. If Bioware says they can be rebuilt quickly, they can be. Even if they're only trying to make us feel better, it's their story.

[Geneaux486]

RogueBot wrote...

Didn't it say in the script that Stargazer came 10,000 years after ME3? If that was true, then Bioware/Patrick Weekes' statement that Relays aren't necessary is probably more due to fan backlash than anything else.

But whatever. If Bioware says they're optional, then they're optional. If Bioware says they can be rebuilt quickly, they can be. Even if they're only trying to make us feel better, it's their story.

[Fawx9]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

SaladinDheonqar wrote...

It will be quite tragic if they go back on what they've already established to try and fix the mess that is the ending. I fear this is indeed what they'll do though, for how can it salvaged any other way?. Perhaps they think we're stupid enough to buy it, or maybe they just don't give a damn. One thing I know for sure: more space magic ain't going to fix a damn thing.

They aren't going back on anything. DO THE DAMN MATH.

Sorry, I'm losing patience.

Thew codex and in game characters clearly state it takes decades- centuries to cross the galaxy.
Just because you can theoretically do it in less time (one way trip, trading in real time is still screwed), doesn't mean it's actually viable.

Point a) If you can't dischangre because you ran into a patch of darkspace bewteen nebulas you're dead. It deosn't matter if you had the supplies you simply got unlucky.

It's going to take centuries simply to get new trade routes up and running which are safe to travel along.

So, If I answer your first point for a second time, will you read what I wrote then?

"Point a)" Yep. You got me. A telescope and 5000 years of Starcharts pshh, no one could figure out how to use those. It's best to hope for the best and fly off randomly: there's no way to see stars ahead of time

*Face Desk*
*Face Desk*
*Face Desk*

Yes, it will take some time to set Galactic civilization back up. Your point?

Yes, because all that darkspace that they haven't explored (due to the relay's being there) is magically going to be well charted on their maps.

[Leafs43]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Destroying the mass relays doesn't magically open another door.

The reapers are considered  close to perfection and far more advanced than any current species and they still use the mass relay network for the main way of travel.  They use the citadel as a giant mass relay in ME1.  They use the alpha relay in ME2 arrival's dlc.  So it is canon that the reapers use the mass relay system.


So by saying the mass relays are optional, you admit that the citadel races, which are considerably less advanced than the reapers, can somehow think up of a better idea for travel.  That idea is complete horse pockey and deserves to be rejected as a logical conclusion..

You confuse a dominant technology for an exclusive technology.

The mass relays are the dominant and exclusive technology.


The reapers have millions of years of advancement over the current races.

There is nothing the current races could come up with in a thousand years that will rival the mass relays.  Why is this so hard to understand?  Removing the mass realys and saying, "Psssh no big deal" is delusional psychosis.

Modifié par Leafs43, 10 avril 2012 - 02:49 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

Fawx9 wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

SaladinDheonqar wrote...

It will be quite tragic if they go back on what they've already established to try and fix the mess that is the ending. I fear this is indeed what they'll do though, for how can it salvaged any other way?. Perhaps they think we're stupid enough to buy it, or maybe they just don't give a damn. One thing I know for sure: more space magic ain't going to fix a damn thing.

They aren't going back on anything. DO THE DAMN MATH.

Sorry, I'm losing patience.

Thew codex and in game characters clearly state it takes decades- centuries to cross the galaxy.
Just because you can theoretically do it in less time (one way trip, trading in real time is still screwed), doesn't mean it's actually viable.

Point a) If you can't dischangre because you ran into a patch of darkspace bewteen nebulas you're dead. It deosn't matter if you had the supplies you simply got unlucky.

It's going to take centuries simply to get new trade routes up and running which are safe to travel along.

So, If I answer your first point for a second time, will you read what I wrote then?

"Point a)" Yep. You got me. A >>>>telescope<<<< and 5000 years of Starcharts pshh, no one could figure out how to use those. It's best to hope for the best and fly off randomly: there's no way to see stars ahead of time

*Face Desk*
*Face Desk*
*Face Desk*

Yes, it will take some time to set Galactic civilization back up. Your point?

Yes, because all that darkspace that they haven't explored (due to the relay's being there) is magically going to be well charted on their maps.

[MyChemicalBromance]

Leafs43 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Destroying the mass relays doesn't magically open another door.

The reapers are considered  close to perfection and far more advanced than any current species and they still use the mass relay network for the main way of travel.  They use the citadel as a giant mass relay in ME1.  They use the alpha relay in ME2 arrival's dlc.  So it is canon that the reapers use the mass relay system.


So by saying the mass relays are optional, you admit that the citadel races, which are considerably less advanced than the reapers, can somehow think up of a better idea for travel.  That idea is complete horse pockey and deserves to be rejected as a logical conclusion..

You confuse a dominant technology for an exclusive technology.

The mass relays are the dominant and exclusive technology.


The reapers have millions of years of advancement over the current races.

There is nothing the current races could come up with in a thousand years that will rival the mass relays.  Why is this so hard to understand?  Removing the mass realys and saying, "Psssh no big deal" is delusional psychosis.

It will change things, but it is not a death sentence. Please attempt to do the math before you decide that the species of the galaxy can't live without the Reapers.

[Geneaux486]

Leafs43 wrote...

The mass relays are the dominant and exclusive technology.


The reapers have millions of years of advancement over the current races.

There is nothing the current races could come up with in a thousand years that will rival the mass relays.  Why is this so hard to understand?  Removing the mass realys and saying, "Psssh no big deal" is delusional psychosis.

Even the game's lore contradicts what you're saying:

[RoboticWater]

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"

[CapnManx]

Nobrandminda wrote...

 I don't know if it's been brought up in this thread already, but consider this:

Sovereign considered it easier to resurrect an extinct species so he could have someone mind meld with it, rather than fly to Ilos from the next closest relay.

If Mass Relays were merely convenient as opposed to necessary, here's how Mass Effect 1 would have gone:  

Presumably, Saren figured out where Ilos was thanks to the Eden Prime beacon.  He may not have known where the Mu Relay was, but who cares?  With Sovereign's cruising speed of 30 Lightyears per day, they could get from the Hawking Eta Cluster to the Pangea Expanse in a matter of months.  He could have set out immediately, stopping just long enough to destroy the Virmire Beacon and phone in his testimony to the Council.  

Shepard would have wasted all of his time looking for Saren, because he has to be somewhere right?  He didn't just fly off into uncharted space, that would be crazy!  The codex says so.  You never know when you might run into a black hole or something... unless you're a reaper in which case you have better knowledge of the galaxy than all of the spacefaring races combined.  A few months later Sovereign would have gotten to Ilos, dropped Saren off, taken the Mass Relay back into known space, met up with his geth forces, and coordinated his attack on the citadel, all without anyone, not even Shepard, having any idea what was coming.

They didn't know what or where the conduit was; that's why they needed the Prothean beacons and the cypher.  By the time they'd figured out where they needed to go, Shepard was already onto them; and would have beaten them to it if they hadn't used the relay.

The Racchni were primarily made to provide Saren with an army; the fact that the queen knew where the Mu relay was is just a happy coincidence.

[Koyutsuji]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Excpet the billion year old race's backup plan is what we currently have.

It would make no sense for the reapers to simply sit on outdated FTL technology for billions of years though.

Their main purpose is to reap, and being faster would help with that. They would instinctively gravitate towards trying to improve themselves in that area. Yet the best they could come up with is the Relay's and FTL at 30 lys.

For billions of years they could do no better than double our standard FTL(outside of relays), why do you think that the curernt civilization can do better in much(did I mention MUCH?) less time than that?

You're assuming that the Reapers were trying to come up with faster means of travel than what they had, but there is no evidence to support this. When their trap is sprung perfectly, it doesn't matter how fast they are, because they're using the Mass Relays to hit each system immediately one after another. When they aren't, as you put it, "reaping", they conserve their resources by hibernating in dark space. Vigil said this itself.

That would mean they also dosn't have to make any safety switches for relays becouse they plan is/was "perfect". As you said. If they do not came up with back up plan there is no need for them to worry about destruction of the mass relays. They newer think they can lost.

Btw. Sorry for all my misspells and grammar error.

[Leafs43]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

The mass relays are the dominant and exclusive technology.


The reapers have millions of years of advancement over the current races.

There is nothing the current races could come up with in a thousand years that will rival the mass relays.  Why is this so hard to understand?  Removing the mass realys and saying, "Psssh no big deal" is delusional psychosis.

Even the game's lore contradicts what you're saying:

/facepalm

Has been discussed already and blown out of the water.

Multiple path theory is bunk because the reapers would have already found a better way for their own personal travel.

And Legion even admits in ME3 with the reaper code the reapers are so far advanced installing the reaper code jumps geth thenology up ten fold, which only contradicts the multiple path theory.