44 réponses à ce sujet

[David Gaider]

Koyasha wrote...
It's not really an offer, he wants to make you an abomination.

This. You need that kind of help like a kick in the head, probably.

Not to say that it sounds like every demon/mage union would have to be so one-sided.  Given that demons and spirits are technically the same thing, differentiated only because demons feed off "negative" emotions, a mutually beneficial partnership similar to Wynne's is entirely reasonable, if you could find a demon that's willing to accept such terms.

True.

[Maria Caliban]

Do such demons exist? I don't just mean hypothetically possible, but actual demons who would say 'sure, I'm down for such a deal.'

[Saurel]

For some reason I was more under the impression they just want to take you over as opposed to say "Hey Mass Murderer, I'll help you out if you let me tag around: just make sure you keep with with slashy slashy"

[KnightofPhoenix]

It's a shame there wasn't such an option. Because right now, my blood mage, libretarian, character doesn't know who he wants to side with, as he hates both the Templars and those who submit to the rule of the Chantry.



Having a thrid option in any situation is always better than having only 2.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Do such demons exist? I don't just mean hypothetically possible, but actual demons who would say 'sure, I'm down for such a deal.'

We have seen demons that are willing to negotiate. And they don't break those arrangements.
I have no trouble imagining a demon being bound to a powerful mage, where both of them get what they want . The demon would see the world in mortal eyes, while the mage gets demonic power.
 
In fact, didn't the Tevinter mages have some sort of agreements with the demons? Seeing as they used blood magic quite extensively.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 05 décembre 2009 - 05:03 .

[Maria Caliban]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

We have seen demons that are willing to negotiate. And they don't break those arrangements.
I have no trouble imagining a demon being bound to a powerful mage, where both of them get what they want . The demon would see the world in mortal eyes, while the mage gets demonic power.

In fact, didn't the Tevinter mages have some sort of agreements with the demons? Seeing as they used blood magic quite extensively.

We have no idea if demons break their word or not. It would be interesting of that were the case, but meeting a demon who didn't break her/its word isn't enough evidence for me.

The Lady of the Forest was a demon originally, but her nature seems to have changed. I find that's a far better indication that a compromising demon is possible.

However, part of me wonders if such an arrangement is possible. It seems to me that when a spirit/demon and a person combines, the end result involves elements of both parties. Even if the demon didn't actively seek control, the person might be altered in a significant way.

[soteria]

I was a little disappointed by the abominations, myself. The codex and the templars build them up to be this awesomely powerful enemy, but in practice they die quickly and don't have terribly dangerous attacks. I think I died more (at lower levels) from multiple exploding dead abominations than from their actual attacks.

[Maria Caliban]

I went to Kenloch first, and found them very easy. I assume that they scale like many other badies and I just found the whimpy versions.



Gaxkang was an abomination, wasn't it?

[Mnemnosyne]

Maria Caliban wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

We have seen demons that are willing to negotiate. And they don't break those arrangements.
I have no trouble imagining a demon being bound to a powerful mage, where both of them get what they want . The demon would see the world in mortal eyes, while the mage gets demonic power.

In fact, didn't the Tevinter mages have some sort of agreements with the demons? Seeing as they used blood magic quite extensively.

We have no idea if demons break their word or not. It would be interesting of that were the case, but meeting a demon who didn't break her/its word isn't enough evidence for me.

The Lady of the Forest was a demon originally, but her nature seems to have changed. I find that's a far better indication that a compromising demon is possible.

However, part of me wonders if such an arrangement is possible. It seems to me that when a spirit/demon and a person combines, the end result involves elements of both parties. Even if the demon didn't actively seek control, the person might be altered in a significant way.

Well, Wynne seems to have retained herself, basically.  Of course, we don't really get to know her before and after, and she wouldn't exactly be the most impartial judge of whether she's changed or not.  Still, if she's any indication, such a melding wouldn't necessarily mean the destruction of the self of either of the two individuals involved.  She certainly seems to behave as though the spirit is a separate entity joined with her, not as though she and the spirit have literally become one mind and person.

As for demons keeping their word, the desire demon in Redcliffe never technically breaks hers, as far as we are aware.  Sophia keeps her word if you do.  On the other hand, "Kitty" breaks her word if you tell her you'll release her but she needs to leave the girl, so they're clearly not actually bound to abide by their agreements - at least not verbal agreements.  So, from the evidence we have they are no more or less trustworthy than anyone else.

[Maria Caliban]

Koyasha wrote...

Well, Wynne seems to have retained herself, basically.  Of course, we don't really get to know her before and after, and she wouldn't exactly be the most impartial judge of whether she's changed or not.  Still, if she's any indication, such a melding wouldn't necessarily mean the destruction of the self of either of the two individuals involved.  She certainly seems to behave as though the spirit is a separate entity joined with her, not as though she and the spirit have literally become one mind and person.

As you say, as we have no idea what she was like before, we don't know if she's changed at all, we don't know how long she's had the spirit in her (though it seems to have not been that long) and we don't know what type of spirit it is.

If a caring and compassionate person has a spirit of compassion in them, there wouldn't be a major personality shift. If a caring and compassionate person has a rage demon in them, even if it's not in control of them, you might see a strong change in personality.

Moreover, I didn't say that they'd merge until they were unable to think of themselves as anything but a single being.

Have you ever seen Star Trek? In it is a species called the Trill who are able to become host to another organism with a vast memory and its own personality, which is also called a Trill. I imagine a spirit inhabiting a person that it hasn't taken control of like that.

[Taleroth]

I wouldn't mind being an abomination. Don't even have to think about it, the demon moves you around for you. That'd be the easy life, totally.  Like a sedan chair for life.

Modifié par Taleroth, 05 décembre 2009 - 06:09 .

[Maria Caliban]

It's like driving the highway of life in cruise control.

[soteria]

I've actually had similar thoughts about demons. My partial conclusion is that they aren't so much evil as having interests that are contrary to mine--I want to live, and apparently they feed on humans in some way. I suppose the chicken I had for dinner last night would call me evil, wouldn't it? The difference is of course that chickens are not sentient, but still...

[Chragen]

I kinda like the idea of you gathering your own army to fight the blight and to hell with the whole Landsmeet. Hopefully they got far enough that modders can dig it up and add in the Abominations later.

I mean how cool wouldn't it be to have Abominations, Werewolfs the Cult of Andraste and I guess Golems and crazy dwarfs.

Would have been a fun twist. Just screw politics and fight evil with evil.

[Rhys Cordelle]

Behindyounow wrote...

Whether you side with the templars or the mages, the mages are still controlled by the chantry, or worse.

I'm guessing you haven't played the game through as a mage?

As you say, as we have no idea what she was like before, we don't
know if she's changed at all, we don't know how long she's had the
spirit in her (though it seems to have not been that long) and we don't
know what type of spirit it is.

You meet her at Ostagar, admittedly not for long but she seems largely unchanged the next time you meet her. Also, if you speak to the other woman that's with her when she joins you, you find out that this spirit has only just joined with Wynne during the attack on the Circle, while Wynne was defending the other mage.

[Behindyounow]

Rhys Cordelle wrote...


I'm guessing you haven't played the game through as a mage?

I have, and I did choose independance for the circle as my boon. All I got was a maybe.

That may be due to me choosing Anora over Alistair though.

[Rhys Cordelle]

Alistair assures it, or if you do the ending where your mage is the one to die then it's assured, even if Anora is the queen.

[T1l]

David Gaider wrote...

And, anyway, my horror stories would still not be as bad as Chris Avellone's.

I'm assuming you've met Chris on more than one occasion, and given the work history, you've probably worked with him.

Interesting you bring him up, David. You remind me of him, in a way. Both writers. Both very good with the community. Open. Understanding.

[TuringPoint]

I suspect that, like in real life, if you have a clear idea of what you want you won't be spontaneously overtaken by a demon and transformed into an abomination.  It seems that demons connect with extreme emotions, and it seems that in the case of Flemeth, a demon itself can almost be a person - or just a reflection of a person that wants to survive?  A reflection of their desire to survive?  

Modifié par Alocormin, 05 décembre 2009 - 02:38 .

[GoldenusG]

David Gaider wrote...
And, anyway, my horror stories would still not be as bad as Chris Avellone's.

True, at least you haven't had Ron Perlman threaten to kill you, your family and your dog.