1189 réponses à ce sujet

[The man of myth]

John Epler wrote...

A) If you have nothing constructive to post, please don't post. You aren't adding anything to the board or the thread.

That being said, anyone who you'd hope to make aware of your concerns via this method is aware of your concerns. At the end of the day, though, it's your money, and you can certainly spend it however you'd like. But if you're trying to spread your message this is not going to do much more than waste 5$ from 1800 people. Again, though - it's your money.

Unfortunately, I don't think they are capable/willing to listen.

[Grimskull89]

FabricatedWookie wrote...

Couple of things, can we agree that the retake idea started here? Holdtheline was just another place set up for retaker's to gather outside of BSN (especially to speak freely without the fear of banning because they were speaking badly about BW) and had a heavy dosage of communicating through civil discourse.

So in this, many members don't think about being officially retake or unofficially retake. being official is a creation of the Facebook/youtube/twitter group, for better are for worse. It doesn't really matter to me, I am a happy member of both. 

The thing i see here happening is that the billboard is seen as agressive, I have already talked to bsghotdog saying, imo, the cupcakes were fun and cheeky, but also a clear slap in the face to the company. There is no reason a billboard couldn't be cheeky. However, this doesn't really matter, the damage is done.

I think jim was invested in this idea. I think it probably hurt to hear the dislike of it, and in many ways this probably does serve as an odd parable to fan response to bioware.

If I can digress back to the official/unofficial thing. Holdtheline is not official because it is said to be more aggressive, however I believe that is a bit of mythos. I am on the facebook group, you can find angry posts there, and having 60,000 lieks alone will mean by sheer magnitude you will have more aggresive people (not necessarily by per capita). There are angry people here as well, and quick to judge. The point is, if you consider yourself a retaker you will always strive to remain calm, to make your arguments as civilly and best you can, regardless of what group you mingle with.

You seem like another reasonable person, like I said before.. Jim was not the best person to introduce this idea to BSN. As someone who only is a regular of BSN, Jim came off as somewhat of an elitist. Also ignored many people, and argubly hurt his own cause.

The problems between the camps of the official FB group and the HTL community are interesting, while the FB group did denounce HTL, their response was that they were being ignored and had to try to develop a relationship. This division cannot be ignored. If there cannot be unity, projects like this billboard will not get passed, however this was not a good route. I akin it to the FTC omplaint, it hurt everyone.. it was a step back.

I agree though that the angry people taking to FB and twitter is a horrible effect on our movement too, there is no stopping them unfortunately and if they were more reasonable they'd be here.

[Ukjack44]

Can we stop this now? Perhaps kill it with fire so it never comes back.

[Random Geth]

Christ, this is just embarrassing. Please just stop.

[DamonD7]

In my cycle, we had better fan protests oO_Oo

Modifié par DamonD7, 10 avril 2012 - 11:46 .

[veramis]

Two problems, one, most of the people won't know what the billboard is about and think it must be some kind of cult. Secondly, bioware is unworthy of such attention.

[GBGriffin]

Grimskull89 wrote...

You seem like another reasonable person, like I said before.. Jim was not the best person to introduce this idea to BSN. As someone who only is a regular of BSN, Jim came off as somewhat of an elitist. Also ignored many people, and argubly hurt his own cause.

The problems between the camps of the official FB group and the HTL community are interesting, while the FB group did denounce HTL, their response was that they were being ignored and had to try to develop a relationship. This division cannot be ignored. If there cannot be unity, projects like this billboard will not get passed, however this was not a good route. I akin it to the FTC omplaint, it hurt everyone.. it was a step back.

I agree though that the angry people taking to FB and twitter is a horrible effect on our movement too, there is no stopping them unfortunately and if they were more reasonable they'd be here.

He claims it was his idea. Why wouldn't he be the one to present it?

KeilxKey wrote...



Err um, I do repersent the movement. I was the one who first suggested the billboard campaign. My username is Jim on holdtheline.com, and if you go to war room you can see a 20+ page that I created...I wanted to be the backseat driver on this. I gave Micheal the "mike" so to speak.

Also,

jules_vern18 wrote...



The gaming press is going to be biased against us no matter what we do.  People cite the charity as an example of us doing something constructive, but this was also maligned and scoffed at by people with close ties to the gaming industry.

This "conflict" (if you would call it that) is between corporation and customer.  The only way that we are going to continue demonstrating to EA and Bioware that we are serious - and that this will affect future sales - is to use our wallets.  That's why the charity drive was so brilliant (and why a billboard or other exercise of spending power) would be heard.  It's not "ridiculous," it's one way to demonstrate a showing of spending power.

 

If they don't care about the media, and claim they will be negative regardless...should we?


(The answer is yes, btw)

Modifié par GBGriffin, 10 avril 2012 - 11:50 .

[ReavousX]

I think the age old saying "keep it simple, stupid" is fitting here. Let's look at past success we displeased fans have had at getting through to Bioware up to this point.

-Voicing our discontent through various ways on the internet. (Free)
-Raising money for a charity. (80k raised)
-Cupcakes with notes to Bioware. (That feeling when you forget how much those cupcakes cost.)

The amount of money for this billboard campaign is laughable. There are SO MANY OTHER WAYS you could use a fraction of that money to make an even louder statement! Billboards are going the way of the dinosaur. A snarky poster worth thousands of dollars isn't going to turn the tide here.

[Calbeb]

veramis wrote...

Two problems, one, most of the people won't know what the billboard is about and think it must be some kind of cult. Secondly, bioware is unworthy of such attention.

But it is worthy of repeatedly commenting on their forums?

[kyrieee]

This project makes everyone protesting the ending look extremely bad.
I hope it doesn't go through.

[veramis]

Calbeb wrote...

veramis wrote...

Two problems, one, most of the people won't know what the billboard is about and think it must be some kind of cult. Secondly, bioware is unworthy of such attention.

But it is worthy of repeatedly commenting on their forums?

No. Everyone should just let this shadow of a company die.

[D_Dude1210]

A bb really isn't a good idea, guys other than make your movement look like it's being run by angry adolescents. Best thing you can hope for is to post BB's for a charity organization or a public service announcement, etc and post "this public service announcement was brought to you by Hold the Line" for Mass Effect 3. Mass Effect 3 deserves a better ending or somesuch.

If you wanted something that would have a real impact, you were better off coordinating an organized boycott and anti-evangalism campaign. Maybe redirect members and their networks to a different developer/publisher/game.

[Calbeb]

veramis wrote...

Calbeb wrote...

veramis wrote...

Two problems, one, most of the people won't know what the billboard is about and think it must be some kind of cult. Secondly, bioware is unworthy of such attention.

But it is worthy of repeatedly commenting on their forums?

No. Everyone should just let this shadow of a company die.

Oh, okay. Bye then.

[Small_Starbuck]

If you have money to waste then give it to me - I could find a better use for it.

[DJBare]

Okay, many agree this will make the entire movement look bad, now apart from those who genuinely want this billboard idea to go through, who else do you think is going to vote in favour of the idea?, think.

[McAllyster]

DarkBladeX98 wrote...

I dont know about this.
I ignore billboards on a regular basis, and I don't know a whole lot of people that will take action because of a sign on the road.

Just saying, don't think this is the best way to spread the word.
We've got the freaking internet right here, guys.

This billboard idea could have generate more media coverage - because it is not an avarage action.

Facebook communities have some impact - but often you need "offline" acitons too. Sometimes you have to reinforce messages with offline actions. Sometimes online simply doesn't enough.

Let's face it: 
- Child's play movement was fantastic... but shutted down.
- Cupcake action was sweet, intelligent and funny... but Bioware evaded.

If the community thinks "billboard is too rude"... I don't agree with this opinion but I think we should drop it. We have act in unity.

However... if we drop this idea we have to find out a new action. Not a repeated action like new charity or new cupcakes but something entirely new thing.

Because we have to hold the line. We have to do new actions to generate again media coverage. Why? Because this heat the only way to influence the decision makers. There are tipping points where such a company like EA have to respond to their customers on the most appropriate way. We have to reach a point where the cost of "denial" is too much - where EA realises: the "cheaper" action is to create a new, satisfying ending.

Plus...

IMHO we should realize: this debate has a larger scale. This is not just about ME3 ending. This is about the whole industry.

If we lose... than the major publishers will learn one thing: with enough patience they can survive any controversy. They can do any new releases on the "usual way". Rushed development cycles, PR double-talkings, etc...

But if we win... that's a clear message to the studios: "You have to take care of your CUSTOMERS." Because we are not just "players", entitled fans, etc. We are PAYING CUSTOMERS. You have to answer well to our demands. 

So...

Let's put aside this billboard campaign idea. What kind of community action should we do next?

[FabricatedWookie]

Grimskull89 wrote...

FabricatedWookie wrote...

Couple of things, can we agree that the retake idea started here? Holdtheline was just another place set up for retaker's to gather outside of BSN (especially to speak freely without the fear of banning because they were speaking badly about BW) and had a heavy dosage of communicating through civil discourse.

So in this, many members don't think about being officially retake or unofficially retake. being official is a creation of the Facebook/youtube/twitter group, for better are for worse. It doesn't really matter to me, I am a happy member of both. 

The thing i see here happening is that the billboard is seen as agressive, I have already talked to bsghotdog saying, imo, the cupcakes were fun and cheeky, but also a clear slap in the face to the company. There is no reason a billboard couldn't be cheeky. However, this doesn't really matter, the damage is done.

I think jim was invested in this idea. I think it probably hurt to hear the dislike of it, and in many ways this probably does serve as an odd parable to fan response to bioware.

If I can digress back to the official/unofficial thing. Holdtheline is not official because it is said to be more aggressive, however I believe that is a bit of mythos. I am on the facebook group, you can find angry posts there, and having 60,000 lieks alone will mean by sheer magnitude you will have more aggresive people (not necessarily by per capita). There are angry people here as well, and quick to judge. The point is, if you consider yourself a retaker you will always strive to remain calm, to make your arguments as civilly and best you can, regardless of what group you mingle with.

You seem like another reasonable person, like I said before.. Jim was not the best person to introduce this idea to BSN. As someone who only is a regular of BSN, Jim came off as somewhat of an elitist. Also ignored many people, and argubly hurt his own cause.

The problems between the camps of the official FB group and the HTL community are interesting, while the FB group did denounce HTL, their response was that they were being ignored and had to try to develop a relationship. This division cannot be ignored. If there cannot be unity, projects like this billboard will not get passed, however this was not a good route. I akin it to the FTC omplaint, it hurt everyone.. it was a step back.

I agree though that the angry people taking to FB and twitter is a horrible effect on our movement too, there is no stopping them unfortunately and if they were more reasonable they'd be here.

In a sense the division can't be ignored because it is the reality. But my point is it is not a choice of the people who organize the website, and it certainly doesn't exist for want of trying. It was put the group in an awkward situation. They must be mindful of two groups, except one group they can't communicate with. Now they are subject to a mythology of being aggressive. Even though we have people that bring community questions with cookies. It is a division, but it is not an ideological division. Nobody disagrees with what the FB organizer says. the site is simply not accepted by the FB organizers. Thems the breaks.

I will only defend kellix with empathy, I am sure his heart was in the right place even if the conversation didn't go right.

My point is I have only seen a couple of people rage on the forum, and then they have calmed down. I have been chuffed to bits with the conversations that have gone on there, and I feel strongly about the quality of conversation in the community.

Not saying we can't get wrapped up in ourselves time to time, I just haven't seen anybody be afraid to apologize over there. Maybe there is something about going to a different board, get ideas about people being more combative and you set yourself up to be combative.

[GBGriffin]

McAllyster wrote...



Let's put aside this billboard campaign idea. What kind of community action should we do next?

...Waiting until summer?


*edit* Argh, my resolve to not post one-liners is slipping.

Seriously, what else is there to do collectively? We've done enough and we're getting something...it might not be exactly what we want, but tbh, we don't know that much about it.

They've announced what they'll be doing, so just post ideas in the sticky threads and see what they do with it. If it's a letdown, maybe a community action should happen then...but not now.

Modifié par GBGriffin, 10 avril 2012 - 11:59 .

[FabricatedWookie]

Gents I got it,COSPLAY THRILLER FLASHMOB, who is with me? P.s. gonna need somebody who can actually costume to makka me a volus.

[FabricatedWookie]

GBGriffin wrote...

McAllyster wrote...



Let's put aside this billboard campaign idea. What kind of community action should we do next?

...Waiting until summer?

I know waiting costs a turn but isn't that technically a non-action?

Griffen I can tell in your heart of hearts you want the starchild, the scourge of the citadel GONE, retconned to oblivion.I can sense it, I can smell it. Join the flash mob. UNLEASH YOUR INNER JACKSON (except not on the kiddies, whu-oh)

Modifié par FabricatedWookie, 10 avril 2012 - 12:01 .

[Qutayba]

BioWare is just starting to come out of bunker mode, and the lines of communication have become slightly more open since PAX. They've also promised to do something for the summer. This doesn't mean people can't still push for more, but a billboard is just a little too much and crosses the line into harassment, if you ask me. It will further damage the relationship with the fans, which is not a good thing at all.

[McAllyster]

GBGriffin wrote...

McAllyster wrote...



Let's put aside this billboard campaign idea. What kind of community action should we do next?

...Waiting until summer?

If wait until summer this will be a cold case. Waiting until summer is equal to accept EC.

[Mastermadskills]

Please.

Delete this thread:

Edit main topic ---->Erase All Contents----->Rename thread----->Please delete me.

Just wait. We WILL get negative press if it stays up.

[goofyomnivore]

Here is what I would do, since Patrick Weekes was nice enough to answer a lot of questions. I'd organize a chip in for these charities.. to show how at least saying something was appreciated.

You get your pub, thank Pat and help less fortunate.

Modifié par strive, 10 avril 2012 - 12:03 .

[DoomManiac]

Retake said on facebook that they don't want billboards,this is just pathetic