1189 réponses à ce sujet

[Dendio1]

What a spectacle over nothing.

[GBGriffin]

 

Aznable Char wrote...


Gosh , honestly I'm impressed with the honesty and responsibility so far . If only we got this kind of apology and concrete action from BioWare .

 

In all absolute honesty, I agree. I respect that you are able to post an apology.

That being said:

Calmb4tehpwn wrote...

In reply to this, and to the accusations that we at HTL and the ones heading this initiative "don't get it" and that this is a ridiculous idea.

You might be right.

We've been focusing so much on getting an initiative started, something for people to support and rally behind, we lost track of the community.

We've taken this mistake for what it is and are moving into a brainstorming campaign. If you wish to join, and rally for your favorites, please join us at the Holdtheline forums.

It's clear this push for billboards was not the right move, and I am sincerely sorry that this wasn't realized before realizing that it could divide us.

The nature of the beast is that the "movement" as a whole is generally seen as, and being reported on as, actions being taken by the "fans". Again, going back to Monty Python, the distinction between Retake and HTL is something that I'd say the average person, and certainly the media if they decide to spin it, simply won't make. Heck, there are now divisons within these divisions, and while a divison might have a leader or governing force...the overall fan "movement" does not, and that's what makes organizing something on behalf of the fanbase in general such a danger. 

The community as a whole, as in, the fan community, not just HTL, BSN, what have you, needs to be taken into account for an action as....grand, I guess, as this. Again, the cupcakes...cheeky humor, I think. Playful. This...not so much, and the pricetag alone will draw attention. The lack of being able to mention BioWare or ME3 will draw the focus away from those two issues and straight onto the most glaring one, imo: fans donating $9,000 for a billboard. Contrary to an earlier post, that, to me, is a lot of money for something liek this, and it will draw attention...but more for that than actually accomplishing an end.

TL;DR , I had no idea HTL and Retake were distinct before that was pointed out to me today, and it wasn't just me. I'd urge people to wait until EC comes out before doing anything on a larger scale, but if a group feels something else MUST be done beyond what's been done already....please, think through the consequences for "the fans" in general, not just your movement within the movement.

[Melra]

Oh gosh... -.- Reaaally? I have no words to describe how silly this is.

[Syrin_]

I'd just like to comment on a couple of things.

I've seen a couple of people say 'HTL movement.' HTL is a forum for members of the Retake community, it's not a movement.

Also, the fact that this idea started on HTL is irrelevant. This, like everything else, was initiated by members of the community, it doesn't matter which social network they use.

I'm sorry that this has got out of hand and stirred quite a reaction (I'm actually also of the opinion that 'no billboard' should've been an option in the poll) but it's done now and I'm glad to see that after taking note of the complaints, the members running the initiative have suspended it.

Also, I hope people realise that the forums are open to everybody, both to chat socially and to discuss Retake.

[KaiserinKai]

To all of those who are complaining: you are not required to donate. This is for people who actually want to. This will be a separate Chip In from the Charity Drives.

Now if you are annoyed at the billboards excisting at all, this is something else entierly...

Modifié par KaiserinKai, 10 avril 2012 - 01:19 .

[GBGriffin]

AcesRedd wrote...

I like this idea a lot. I am disappointed that it is not going forward. The billboard itself would probably not have much of an effect on the people that saw it, but the media would surely pick up on it and it would be more negative press for whoever is responsible for the sucky ending.
.

Or, you know, more negative press for the people spending $9,000 on a billboard when the product and company they're protesting (again, not mentioned on the billboard). And, not just them, but fans like you and me. We'd be lumped in with this group, although you sound like you're ready to support it for the sake of doing something, consequences be damned...which is why people are objecting to this in genera, I think.

AcesRedd wrote...


Sure when nobody cares anymore (and we're already getting to that point)
that's the perfect time to try to get what we were promised.

Who do you mean by nobody? The public? Other fans? I think it's safe to say that fans of your...dedication, I suppose, will still care, and if it bombs, work to make peopel care again. IMO, there's no point in just fueling the fire, especially if it's negative, over something they'll be actually be working on in the meantime. 

[Aznable Char]

GBGriffin wrote...

 

Aznable Char wrote...


Gosh , honestly I'm impressed with the honesty and responsibility so far . If only we got this kind of apology and concrete action from BioWare .

 

In all absolute honesty, I agree. I respect that you are able to post an apology.

That being said:

Calmb4tehpwn wrote...

In reply to this, and to the accusations that we at HTL and the ones heading this initiative "don't get it" and that this is a ridiculous idea.

You might be right.

We've been focusing so much on getting an initiative started, something for people to support and rally behind, we lost track of the community.

We've taken this mistake for what it is and are moving into a brainstorming campaign. If you wish to join, and rally for your favorites, please join us at the Holdtheline forums.

It's clear this push for billboards was not the right move, and I am sincerely sorry that this wasn't realized before realizing that it could divide us.

The nature of the beast is that the "movement" as a whole is generally seen as, and being reported on as, actions being taken by the "fans". Again, going back to Monty Python, the distinction between Retake and HTL is something that I'd say the average person, and certainly the media if they decide to spin it, simply won't make. Heck, there are now divisons within these divisions, and while a divison might have a leader or governing force...the overall fan "movement" does not, and that's what makes organizing something on behalf of the fanbase in general such a danger. 

The community as a whole, as in, the fan community, not just HTL, BSN, what have you, needs to be taken into account for an action as....grand, I guess, as this. Again, the cupcakes...cheeky humor, I think. Playful. This...not so much, and the pricetag alone will draw attention. The lack of being able to mention BioWare or ME3 will draw the focus away from those two issues and straight onto the most glaring one, imo: fans donating $9,000 for a billboard. Contrary to an earlier post, that, to me, is a lot of money for something liek this, and it will draw attention...but more for that than actually accomplishing an end.

TL;DR , I had no idea HTL and Retake were distinct before that was pointed out to me today, and it wasn't just me. I'd urge people to wait until EC comes out before doing anything on a larger scale, but if a group feels something else MUST be done beyond what's been done already....please, think through the consequences for "the fans" in general, not just your movement within the movement.

The rather good news is that the fallout was relatively minimal considering it seems like if it wasn't for the rogue actions of one person , this would have been suspended HOURS ago and wouldn't have caused a shicrap storm . Though I think this also helps to highlight problems of legitimate frontmen for projects and who has the ability to speak for certain projects .

After all , anyone can pose to be a Retaker and speak on a forum somewhere and make a total fool of himself which in my opinion the OP on this thread did . Luckily there are mature people with quads like Michael who are actually in the leadership at HTL as opposed to some guy who apparently only came up with the idea but wasn't party to the implementation .

[CrutchCricket]

You know, here's one thing I don't get. The retake movement raised 80 grand for charity (awesome to be sure) and is now proposing to raise, what is it 30 grand more for these billboards... I'm just thinking, if we can get that kind of cash together, why don't we just pay Bioware for a new ending? I may not be versed in video game costs but $120,000 has to at least start you off. It just seems we're shooting money all around but not at the target we want.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 10 avril 2012 - 01:19 .

[DJBare]

KaiserinKai wrote...
To all of those who are complaining: you are not required to donate. This is for people who actually want to. This will be a separate Chip In from the Charity Drives.

So the rest of the community be damned is it?, I take it you missed Michaels posts in this thread?

[Shaigunjoe]

Calmb4tehpwn wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Sesshaku wrote...

Instead of a Billboard campaign, i would suggest to raise money for a new and better ending.

Something like the startkicker projects that are making for wasteland 2.

This an interesting idea, would you just hire modders to do it?  Text or VO?  Who would write the script? Who would be in charge of choosing what goes in/out?

Not against it, there is just a lot of things to consider when doing this.

Interestingly enough, an iniative of this sort -is- being undertaken in HTL. I am completely unrelated to that iniative, but they're already getting familiar with the code in an attempt to bring some fan endings to life.

Thats awesome, and good luck. To be honest, I feel like doing community made endings is more in the spirit of ME anyway, maybe a 'create your own' ending gui that would facilite and streamline what goes into the game's ending so people will have an easier time doing it.

[GBGriffin]

KaiserinKai wrote...

To all of those who are complaining: you are not required to donate. This is for people who actually want to. This will be a separate Chip In from the Charity Drives.

I thought this campaign was suspended? Or are you speaking for the movement like Keil/ "Jim" did?

Also, do you think the media will care to make the distinction? Are you still going to start up the ChipIn and begin raising $9,000 for, admittingly, not a charity? 
If anything, this will overshadow the charity drives.  

What happens if the plan is scrapped or changed? Who will be held accountable for the money?

[Sesshaku]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Sesshaku wrote...

Instead of a Billboard campaign, i would suggest to raise money for a new and better ending.

Something like the startkicker projects that are making for wasteland 2.

This an interesting idea, would you just hire modders to do it?  Text or VO?  Who would write the script? Who would be in charge of choosing what goes in/out?

Not against it, there is just a lot of things to consider when doing this.

Nah, let Bioware do it as an optional pre paid DLC in case Extended cut #@~€.
I don't think they will let us do modding, and we wouldn't have Voice actors.

But i don't know, we had 80K dollars in one month....let's say we raise 500K for November, perhaps more...that should be something....perhaps Bioware would accept if it doesn't cost them and makes their fans happy.
And since we would "produce it" they could make livecams of them working and deciding the tweeks, it could be the first ending produced by company and fans . Im just a dreamer, but that could be fun since i don't think we would care to see spoilers right now.

Modifié par Sesshaku, 10 avril 2012 - 01:23 .

[Syrin_]

GBGriffin wrote...

 

Aznable Char wrote...


Gosh , honestly I'm impressed with the honesty and responsibility so far . If only we got this kind of apology and concrete action from BioWare .

 

In all absolute honesty, I agree. I respect that you are able to post an apology.

That being said:

Calmb4tehpwn wrote...

In reply to this, and to the accusations that we at HTL and the ones heading this initiative "don't get it" and that this is a ridiculous idea.

You might be right.

We've been focusing so much on getting an initiative started, something for people to support and rally behind, we lost track of the community.

We've taken this mistake for what it is and are moving into a brainstorming campaign. If you wish to join, and rally for your favorites, please join us at the Holdtheline forums.

It's clear this push for billboards was not the right move, and I am sincerely sorry that this wasn't realized before realizing that it could divide us.

The nature of the beast is that the "movement" as a whole is generally seen as, and being reported on as, actions being taken by the "fans". Again, going back to Monty Python, the distinction between Retake and HTL is something that I'd say the average person, and certainly the media if they decide to spin it, simply won't make. Heck, there are now divisons within these divisions, and while a divison might have a leader or governing force...the overall fan "movement" does not, and that's what makes organizing something on behalf of the fanbase in general such a danger. 

The community as a whole, as in, the fan community, not just HTL, BSN, what have you, needs to be taken into account for an action as....grand, I guess, as this. Again, the cupcakes...cheeky humor, I think. Playful. This...not so much, and the pricetag alone will draw attention. The lack of being able to mention BioWare or ME3 will draw the focus away from those two issues and straight onto the most glaring one, imo: fans donating $9,000 for a billboard. Contrary to an earlier post, that, to me, is a lot of money for something liek this, and it will draw attention...but more for that than actually accomplishing an end.

TL;DR , I had no idea HTL and Retake were distinct before that was pointed out to me today, and it wasn't just me. I'd urge people to wait until EC comes out before doing anything on a larger scale, but if a group feels something else MUST be done beyond what's been done already....please, think through the consequences for "the fans" in general, not just your movement within the movement.

Whoever pointed that out to you is mistaken. They are NOT distinct. HTL is a forum for the Retake movement. It's nothing different and most members there are also members of BSN, Facebook group, Twitter etc. Michael is just a member of the HTL forums who started an initiative there, in just the same way the cupcake intiative happened to be started there. 

[paralitos]

hahaha

[GBGriffin]

DJBare wrote...

KaiserinKai wrote...
To all of those who are complaining: you are not required to donate. This is for people who actually want to. This will be a separate Chip In from the Charity Drives.

So the rest of the community be damned is it?, I take it you missed Michaels posts in this thread?

Michael, if you see this post, I'd urge you to get your people in line and not promote this campaign as actually happening if it is, indeed, suspended.

[GBGriffin]

Syrin_ wrote...


Whoever pointed that out to you is mistaken. They are NOT distinct. HTL is a forum for the Retake movement. It's nothing different and most members there are also members of BSN, Facebook group, Twitter etc. Michael is just a member of the HTL forums who started an initiative there, in just the same way the cupcake intiative happened to be started there. 

Damnit, now I have to go back and find those quotes, but I need to get to class...actually, I think there was a Forbes article on it...*grrr*

Again, I would stress that the confusion over it (not just by myself) and the fact that I don't think the media will make the distinction is reason enough to exercise caution when planning events of this scale and cost.

[Calmb4tehpwn]

Aznable Char wrote...

The rather good news is that the fallout was relatively minimal considering it seems like if it wasn't for the rogue actions of one person , this would have been suspended HOURS ago and wouldn't have caused a shicrap storm . Though I think this also helps to highlight problems of legitimate frontmen for projects and who has the ability to speak for certain projects .

After all , anyone can pose to be a Retaker and speak on a forum somewhere and make a total fool of himself which in my opinion the OP on this thread did . Luckily there are mature people with quads like Michael who are actually in the leadership at HTL as opposed to some guy who apparently only came up with the idea but wasn't party to the implementation .

I would like to amend this by saying one thing.
I make no claims to be HTL leadership in any way. I am a member of the creative team, and have a tendancy to take immaterial ideas, and turn them into practical campaigns. This means the campaign was my baby. I was the architect, and I take full responsibility for how badly is has represented the gaming community as a whole, but I do not claim leadership of the forums or any movements they may represent themselves.

Aside from that, I'm hoping we can work together as a community to repair this issue, and focus our energy on finding a campaign we can (mostly) all agree on.

[Chaoswind]

Is good to see this was canceled, honestly the creation of withhold the wallet and retakers adopting this same banner is the next step of this protest

[Gurneyslabb]

So many obvious trolls in this thread

[GBGriffin]

Melrache wrote...

Oh gosh... -.- Reaaally? I have no words to describe how silly this is.

Supposedly it's suspended, but the OP doesn't reflect that.


The fact that you posted as if it's still going on, though, is why the announcement needs to be in the OP, or the thread needs to be locked

(This is not an attack on you! This is me trying to make a point using your post as an example!)

[DJBare]

GBGriffin wrote...
Supposedly it's suspended, but the OP doesn't reflect that.

Cannot blame Michael for that, Jim needs to change the OP, but I guess he's getting some shut eye now.

[Calbeb]

Calmb4tehpwn wrote...

Aznable Char wrote...

The rather good news is that the fallout was relatively minimal considering it seems like if it wasn't for the rogue actions of one person , this would have been suspended HOURS ago and wouldn't have caused a shicrap storm . Though I think this also helps to highlight problems of legitimate frontmen for projects and who has the ability to speak for certain projects .

After all , anyone can pose to be a Retaker and speak on a forum somewhere and make a total fool of himself which in my opinion the OP on this thread did . Luckily there are mature people with quads like Michael who are actually in the leadership at HTL as opposed to some guy who apparently only came up with the idea but wasn't party to the implementation .

I would like to amend this by saying one thing.
I make no claims to be HTL leadership in any way. I am a member of the creative team, and have a tendancy to take immaterial ideas, and turn them into practical campaigns. This means the campaign was my baby. I was the architect, and I take full responsibility for how badly is has represented the gaming community as a whole, but I do not claim leadership of the forums or any movements they may represent themselves.

Aside from that, I'm hoping we can work together as a community to repair this issue, and focus our energy on finding a campaign we can (mostly) all agree on.

You've been responding to this really well. Honestly classy response.

I've been down on this entire thread largely because of the poster from your movement on here, and his comments that he was doing it for publicity fo ryour site and didn't really care about people who didn't like it.

But honestly, I don't fault you for having an idea and organizing it, and I think it's awesome that you have suspended it in the face of the criticism.

Cheers.

[GBGriffin]

 

DJBare wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...
Supposedly it's suspended, but the OP doesn't reflect that.

Cannot blame Michael for that, Jim needs to change the OP, but I guess he's getting some shut eye now.

I know. It wasn't an effort to blame Michael, though I wish he'd address this:

KaiserinKai wrote...

To all of those who are complaining: you are not required to donate. This is for people who actually want to. This will be a separate Chip In from the Charity Drives.

Now if you are annoyed at the billboards excisting at all, this is something else entierly...

Does this person speak on behalf of HTL/this campaign as well? Will the ChipIn donation still be set up to begin collecting funds while the campaign is suspended?

[Calmb4tehpwn]

Calbeb wrote...


You've been responding to this really well. Honestly classy response.

I've been down on this entire thread largely because of the poster from your movement on here, and his comments that he was doing it for publicity fo ryour site and didn't really care about people who didn't like it.

But honestly, I don't fault you for having an idea and organizing it, and I think it's awesome that you have suspended it in the face of the criticism.

Cheers.

I wont lie to you, having become aware of this in the last half an hour, I haven't seen anything before page 38, aside from the OP. I have only heard second hand what he has said, and it's not representive of what Hold the Line stands for.

Here's to hoping we can get the OP changed sooner than later.