1189 réponses à ce sujet

[FabricatedWookie]

GBGriffin wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Oh gosh... -.- Reaaally? I have no words to describe how silly this is.

Supposedly it's suspended, but the OP doesn't reflect that.


The fact that you posted as if it's still going on, though, is why the announcement needs to be in the OP, or the thread needs to be locked

(This is not an attack on you! This is me trying to make a point using your post as an example!)

like I said, pretty sure dude is sleeping

[Syrin_]

GBGriffin wrote...

Syrin_ wrote...


Whoever pointed that out to you is mistaken. They are NOT distinct. HTL is a forum for the Retake movement. It's nothing different and most members there are also members of BSN, Facebook group, Twitter etc. Michael is just a member of the HTL forums who started an initiative there, in just the same way the cupcake intiative happened to be started there. 

Damnit, now I have to go back and find those quotes, but I need to get to class...actually, I think there was a Forbes article on it...*grrr*

Again, I would stress that the confusion over it (not just by myself) and the fact that I don't think the media will make the distinction is reason enough to exercise caution when planning events of this scale and cost.

I'm sorry that this has got confused; I'm disappointed to see that one failed initiative has caused people to think HTL is a seperate movement entirely. It's unfair and a mistake to say this is a HTL initiative instead of a member-led initiative as it implies that we are indeed distinctively separate.

I jsut want to add, the media won't make the distinction because there isn't one - we are all members of the Retake community.

I'd also like to make it clear that nobody in this post (aside from myself) is part of the admin staff at HTL - this is a member-led initative, like they all are. 

[CrutchCricket]

Opsrbest wrote...
120 000 dollars is not enough for a new ending that would involve gameplay because lets face it it start with the game play of where the current ending initiates it's swangsong. But Bioware wouldn't take the money. They have more class then that.

People really need to get over what they don't like and make the decision themselves of where they stand and what they are going to do. Bioware has stated how they will resolve the issue and if people don't like the idea of the EC thats fine. But you can't attempt to force Bioware to make a decision or change there decision at this point.

I didn't realize added gameplay was required. It'd be nice but I wouldn't say it's mandatory. What we need is for the story to end in a way that makes some goddamned sense. Boss battles are a secondary concern.

I do have to question the underlined though. Really? You think they would really turn down money? Or that they'd be allowed to by EA? I'm appealing to straightup capitalism. Why don't we just buy what we want, if we can get the money together?

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 10 avril 2012 - 01:33 .

[GBGriffin]

Calmb4tehpwn wrote...

I wont lie to you, having become aware of this in the last half an hour, I haven't seen anything before page 38, aside from the OP. I have only heard second hand what he has said, and it's not representive of what Hold the Line stands for.

Here's to hoping we can get the OP changed sooner than later.

In general, I tried to cite Keil as often as I could in recent posts. I would encourage you to begin to read it around page 10 or so.

Also, yes or no on beginning to collect donations while the campaign is suspended?

[Nyctyris]

If this went through it would count as harassment imo.

[AcesRedd]

GBGriffin wrote...

AcesRedd wrote...

I like this idea a lot. I am disappointed that it is not going forward. The billboard itself would probably not have much of an effect on the people that saw it, but the media would surely pick up on it and it would be more negative press for whoever is responsible for the sucky ending.
.

Or, you know, more negative press for the people spending $9,000 on a billboard when the product and company they're protesting (again, not mentioned on the billboard). And, not just them, but fans like you and me. We'd be lumped in with this group, although you sound like you're ready to support it for the sake of doing something, consequences be damned...which is why people are objecting to this in genera, I think.

AcesRedd wrote...


Sure when nobody cares anymore (and we're already getting to that point)
that's the perfect time to try to get what we were promised.

Who do you mean by nobody? The public? Other fans? I think it's safe to say that fans of your...dedication, I suppose, will still care, and if it bombs, work to make peopel care again. IMO, there's no point in just fueling the fire, especially if it's negative, over something they'll be actually be working on in the meantime. 

What I mean to say is that as the days pass by I see there is a clear decline in the talk related to how much the ending sucks. I'm not saying people are changing their minds or even pleased with the results (though I'm sure some might be.) But I think that just like with everything that our short attention spans fixate on people are simply losing interest and moving on to a different game or drama.

The game came out right now, it did not meet expectations, but much more importantly it betrayed what had been a great series. Whether people enjoyed the ending or not, they were lied to and given a subpar product, right now while the iron is hot we can still cause a change (hopefully  more than what I think the community has already done,) but three months from now I don't think even a very passionate group will be able to rally the support to cause any effect whatsoever. 

That being said I've seen a few discussions on the billboard and I feel it is a bad idea. Still, I would be very open to put my money toward something that will have an effect. Though I am passionate about what I want, I don't think it is unreasonable (though it might be from someone else's point of view.) 

What I want personally, is someone who is responsible for all this BS. Either the executive whatever or the head of whatever, be that from EA or EAware. Someone who says "I rushed them", or "I cut their budget" or "I simply got lazy." Whatever, accepts responsibility and goes looking for new job opportunities.

The other thing I want is for them to just come out and say something vaguely resembling, "alright fans, look it was bull ****. We knew it was gonna suck, we just didn't realize how much you'd hate it. We will fix it, we're sorry for all the bull****, we were just scared and there were budgets and deadlines and it sucks, but forget the artistic bull****, we're sorry. We really mean it and we will do our best to fix this."

[GBGriffin]

Opsrbest wrote...
The thread doesn't need to be locked. And it is in the OP to a degree it just doesn't specifically statethat it has been suspended when I checked about 10 minutes ago. And by checked I mean checked the OP for the current status of the project.

Either way the thread doesn't need to be locked the topic should change though. Focusing a billboard campiegn to where only Bioware or EA would see it isn't going to generate anyones intrest. There are ways to purchase actual magazine space where RTM or HTL could get actual storyies placed in them. Be creative enough and buy ad space. Forbes supports them to a degree, well lets see how much they really do. Let's see how industry related magazines like IGN, GamePro, etc feel about having the ads.

RTM or HTL needs to be clear, be concise, but most of all make sure they don't come off as petty or pedantic and your just outrightly refusing what Bioware is offering because at the end of the day you just don't like what you are being given.

If this is really War for these people then they need to start waging it off the forums. Create the identity off the forums.

It's why I quoted the posts of people reacting to it as though it hadn't been suspended. I know "Jim" is sleeping, but it needs to be directly stated that this campaign isn't being "discussed"...it's suspended.

Also, will it begin collecting donations while it is suspended? I feel that's important to address for any potential donors.

[DJBare]

GBGriffin wrote...
Does this person speak on behalf of HTL/this campaign as well? Will the ChipIn donation still be set up to begin collecting funds while the campaign is suspended?

From my perspective no, Jim had already shot himself in the foot early in the thread, I attempted to reason with him through PM and also saw Michael try to reason with him on HTL, Jim was a lone gunman, I suspect he figured his reasons were sincere, and I also understand how crushed a person can feel when their apparantly great idea gets shot down.

The main thing now, is to let this calm down, everyone take a moment to themselves, we're not exactly out of the woods yet.

[FabricatedWookie]

Syrin_ wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

Syrin_ wrote...


Whoever pointed that out to you is mistaken. They are NOT distinct. HTL is a forum for the Retake movement. It's nothing different and most members there are also members of BSN, Facebook group, Twitter etc. Michael is just a member of the HTL forums who started an initiative there, in just the same way the cupcake intiative happened to be started there. 

Damnit, now I have to go back and find those quotes, but I need to get to class...actually, I think there was a Forbes article on it...*grrr*

Again, I would stress that the confusion over it (not just by myself) and the fact that I don't think the media will make the distinction is reason enough to exercise caution when planning events of this scale and cost.

I'm sorry that this has got confused; I'm disappointed to see that one failed initiative has caused people to think HTL is a seperate movement entirely. It's unfair and a mistake to say this is a HTL initiative instead of a member-led initiative as it implies that we are indeed distinctively separate.

I jsut want to add, the media won't make the distinction because there isn't one - we are all members of the Retake community.

I'd also like to make it clear that nobody in this post (aside from myself) is part of the admin staff at HTL - this is a member-led initative, like they all are. 

That may be my bad, I recognized that what exists is an orginizational division not an ideological division. That despite attempts otherwise, the FB group chooses not to associate with the htl forum. It may lead to people thinking it is in fact a seperate movement >.>

[FabricatedWookie]

GBGriffin wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...
The thread doesn't need to be locked. And it is in the OP to a degree it just doesn't specifically statethat it has been suspended when I checked about 10 minutes ago. And by checked I mean checked the OP for the current status of the project.

Either way the thread doesn't need to be locked the topic should change though. Focusing a billboard campiegn to where only Bioware or EA would see it isn't going to generate anyones intrest. There are ways to purchase actual magazine space where RTM or HTL could get actual storyies placed in them. Be creative enough and buy ad space. Forbes supports them to a degree, well lets see how much they really do. Let's see how industry related magazines like IGN, GamePro, etc feel about having the ads.

RTM or HTL needs to be clear, be concise, but most of all make sure they don't come off as petty or pedantic and your just outrightly refusing what Bioware is offering because at the end of the day you just don't like what you are being given.

If this is really War for these people then they need to start waging it off the forums. Create the identity off the forums.

It's why I quoted the posts of people reacting to it as though it hadn't been suspended. I know "Jim" is sleeping, but it needs to be directly stated that this campaign isn't being "discussed"...it's suspended.

Also, will it begin collecting donations while it is suspended? I feel that's important to address for any potential donors.

Is there a chip in link up or something?

[Calmb4tehpwn]

GBGriffin wrote...

Calmb4tehpwn wrote...

I wont lie to you, having become aware of this in the last half an hour, I haven't seen anything before page 38, aside from the OP. I have only heard second hand what he has said, and it's not representive of what Hold the Line stands for.

Here's to hoping we can get the OP changed sooner than later.

In general, I tried to cite Keil as often as I could in recent posts. I would encourage you to begin to read it around page 10 or so.

Also, yes or no on beginning to collect donations while the campaign is suspended?

Great Question!!
Can't believe I've never thought to address this.

While suspended, no funds are to be collected. This campaign is on a complete freeze and anything that was planned for it is null for the time being.

I would also like to note that we had plans to donate to the Save Point foundation with any money gathered over our goal (or everything if we hadn't gathered enough). All of this was to be completely transparent in the chip in, and is completely null and void now. I just want to make it clear that we were not simply taking people's money here, and we didn't poke our head out of the sand enough to realize this could be viewed as more aggressive as a move (especially considering the cost), and found few members on the forums that were hesitant about the campaign.

Here we are. Mistakes have been made: Namely mine, but I implore to you help us move past this point. I am a member of Retake. I am also a member of HTL. And I sincerely hope we can stand united on a future campaign.

[AcesRedd]

Opsrbest wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Oh gosh... -.- Reaaally? I have no words to describe how silly this is.

Supposedly it's suspended, but the OP doesn't reflect that.


The fact that you posted as if it's still going on, though, is why the announcement needs to be in the OP, or the thread needs to be locked

(This is not an attack on you! This is me trying to make a point using your post as an example!)

The thread doesn't need to be locked. And it is in the OP to a degree it just doesn't specifically statethat it has been suspended when I checked about 10 minutes ago. And by checked I mean checked the OP for the current status of the project.

Either way the thread doesn't need to be locked the topic should change though. Focusing a billboard campiegn to where only Bioware or EA would see it isn't going to generate anyones intrest. There are ways to purchase actual magazine space where RTM or HTL could get actual storyies placed in them. Be creative enough and buy ad space. Forbes supports them to a degree, well lets see how much they really do. Let's see how industry related magazines like IGN, GamePro, etc feel about having the ads.

RTM or HTL needs to be clear, be concise, but most of all make sure they don't come off as petty or pedantic and your just outrightly refusing what Bioware is offering because at the end of the day you just don't like what you are being given.

If this is really War for these people then they need to start waging it off the forums. Create the identity off the forums.

I like the idea of magazine ads. If the gaming magazines refused to print them that'd be a story in it of itself, it'd generate great publicity and more ill will toward the "journalists" and the "artists." 

I guess the problem though, would be what to do put in those ads, since everyone has their own particular views.

[Mastermadskills]

Dear lord.

What a mess.

What a mess INDEED.

[Mastermadskills]

Come join the only protest with any chance at working.

See my sig for details.

Ditch all this drama. We won't stand for it at HTW.

[GBGriffin]

AcesRedd wrote...

What I mean to say is that as the days pass by I see there is a clear decline in the talk related to how much the ending sucks. I'm not saying people are changing their minds or even pleased with the results (though I'm sure some might be.) But I think that just like with everything that our short attention spans fixate on people are simply losing interest and moving on to a different game or drama.

The game came out right now, it did not meet expectations, but much more importantly it betrayed what had been a great series. Whether people enjoyed the ending or not, they were lied to and given a subpar product, right now while the iron is hot we can still cause a change (hopefully  more than what I think the community has already done,) but three months from now I don't think even a very passionate group will be able to rally the support to cause any effect whatsoever. 

That being said I've seen a few discussions on the billboard and I feel it is a bad idea. Still, I would be very open to put my money toward something that will have an effect. Though I am passionate about what I want, I don't think it is unreasonable (though it might be from someone else's point of view.) 

What I want personally, is someone who is responsible for all this BS. Either the executive whatever or the head of whatever, be that from EA or EAware. Someone who says "I rushed them", or "I cut their budget" or "I simply got lazy." Whatever, accepts responsibility and goes looking for new job opportunities.

The other thing I want is for them to just come out and say something vaguely resembling, "alright fans, look it was bull ****. We knew it was gonna suck, we just didn't realize how much you'd hate it. We will fix it, we're sorry for all the bull****, we were just scared and there were budgets and deadlines and it sucks, but forget the artistic bull****, we're sorry. We really mean it and we will do our best to fix this."

So, you feel that the forums should be filled with daily reminders of how much the endings suck, even as people have admitted to wanting to just wait for EC? 

People know the endings suck; it's why we started protesting . The difference is that maybe people don't feel as passionately about it as you do because something finally happened. They commented on it, they announced the EC, and while you might feel it isnt enough for you personally...I don't think people are just going to forget about the EC. If your goal is to keep people in a constant state of anger until then...I don't think that's healthy for anyone.

My point is, protest it then and turn up the heat then, not before. Otherwise, it truly is whining about getting something for free that is the direct result of a prior protest. You might have to accept that some people, shockingly enough, are willing to let it go, and that's even without the DLC in their hands!

If you're expecting them to fire someone because you didn't get what you want, after they've defended their work, I don't think it'll happen. If your happiness and enjoyment rides on the hope of someone getting fired...that's not healthy. As for a concession, they aren't going to state anything like that in those terms. Take the EC as your concession, because they didn't even have that, and maybe try to calm down a bit and just be patient. Lack of patience leads to awful ideas like this; staying angry for the sake of being angry isn't good.

[Vilegrim]

John Epler wrote...

A) If you have nothing constructive to post, please don't post. You aren't adding anything to the board or the thread.

That being said, anyone who you'd hope to make aware of your concerns via this method is aware of your concerns. At the end of the day, though, it's your money, and you can certainly spend it however you'd like. But if you're trying to spread your message this is not going to do much more than waste 5$ from 1800 people. Again, though - it's your money.

Then why was the response a flat no to the issues raised? Also known as we have to agree with space hitler?

[GBGriffin]

Last post before I go; I'll respond to more later, but: 

Syrin_ wrote...


Whoever pointed that out to you is mistaken. They are NOT distinct. HTL is a forum for the Retake movement. It's nothing different and most members there are also members of BSN, Facebook group, Twitter etc. Michael is just a member of the HTL forums who started an initiative there, in just the same way the cupcake intiative happened to be started there. 

Calmb4tehpwn wrote...


Here we are. Mistakes have been made: Namely mine, but I implore to you help us move past this point. I am a member of Retake. I am also a member of HTL. And I sincerely hope we can stand united on a future campaign.

 

Can you see how this would be confusing?

[Calbeb]

AcesRedd wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

AcesRedd wrote...

I like this idea a lot. I am disappointed that it is not going forward. The billboard itself would probably not have much of an effect on the people that saw it, but the media would surely pick up on it and it would be more negative press for whoever is responsible for the sucky ending.
.

Or, you know, more negative press for the people spending $9,000 on a billboard when the product and company they're protesting (again, not mentioned on the billboard). And, not just them, but fans like you and me. We'd be lumped in with this group, although you sound like you're ready to support it for the sake of doing something, consequences be damned...which is why people are objecting to this in genera, I think.

AcesRedd wrote...


Sure when nobody cares anymore (and we're already getting to that point)
that's the perfect time to try to get what we were promised.

Who do you mean by nobody? The public? Other fans? I think it's safe to say that fans of your...dedication, I suppose, will still care, and if it bombs, work to make peopel care again. IMO, there's no point in just fueling the fire, especially if it's negative, over something they'll be actually be working on in the meantime. 

What I mean to say is that as the days pass by I see there is a clear decline in the talk related to how much the ending sucks. I'm not saying people are changing their minds or even pleased with the results (though I'm sure some might be.) But I think that just like with everything that our short attention spans fixate on people are simply losing interest and moving on to a different game or drama.

The game came out right now, it did not meet expectations, but much more importantly it betrayed what had been a great series. Whether people enjoyed the ending or not, they were lied to and given a subpar product, right now while the iron is hot we can still cause a change (hopefully  more than what I think the community has already done,) but three months from now I don't think even a very passionate group will be able to rally the support to cause any effect whatsoever. 

That being said I've seen a few discussions on the billboard and I feel it is a bad idea. Still, I would be very open to put my money toward something that will have an effect. Though I am passionate about what I want, I don't think it is unreasonable (though it might be from someone else's point of view.) 

What I want personally, is someone who is responsible for all this BS. Either the executive whatever or the head of whatever, be that from EA or EAware. Someone who says "I rushed them", or "I cut their budget" or "I simply got lazy." Whatever, accepts responsibility and goes looking for new job opportunities.

The other thing I want is for them to just come out and say something vaguely resembling, "alright fans, look it was bull ****. We knew it was gonna suck, we just didn't realize how much you'd hate it. We will fix it, we're sorry for all the bull****, we were just scared and there were budgets and deadlines and it sucks, but forget the artistic bull****, we're sorry. We really mean it and we will do our best to fix this."

I don't think it's cool to want someone fired because people don't like the ending of the game, especially when the writing in the rest of it was (imo) pretty solid. It sucks that the ending wasn't very good, but the EC is a direct response to that. I know it won't make everyone happy but there it is.

As for someone coming out and taking the blame, the thing that always amazes me about that accusation is that people assume one or two people are somehow responsible. Maybe they didn't think it sucks. Maybe they lost perspective on the game as a whole, which is definately possible while in a crunch. Maybe they thought some things would end up being executed better than it was and they were stuck with it.

Who can say. But honestly, the only real blame that Bioware has to take from this is the fact that they made a bunch of dumb PR comments about the ending prior to the game's release. If they hadn't done that it would just be another weak ending. As is it's something that they need to rectify, and clearly a free dlc expansion is an attempt to do just that.

[Calbeb]

Vilegrim wrote...

John Epler wrote...

A) If you have nothing constructive to post, please don't post. You aren't adding anything to the board or the thread.

That being said, anyone who you'd hope to make aware of your concerns via this method is aware of your concerns. At the end of the day, though, it's your money, and you can certainly spend it however you'd like. But if you're trying to spread your message this is not going to do much more than waste 5$ from 1800 people. Again, though - it's your money.

Then why was the response a flat no to the issues raised? Also known as we have to agree with space hitler?

*I clearly misread you, my bad* *bow*

Modifié par Calbeb, 10 avril 2012 - 01:52 .

[jkflipflopDAO]

John Epler wrote...

A) If you have nothing constructive to post, please don't post. You aren't adding anything to the board or the thread.

That being said, anyone who you'd hope to make aware of your concerns via this method is aware of your concerns. At the end of the day, though, it's your money, and you can certainly spend it however you'd like. But if you're trying to spread your message this is not going to do much more than waste 5$ from 1800 people. Again, though - it's your money.

Nooooooooooooo!!!!!

The point here is THAT YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT. Arg! How thick are you Bioware people? This is maddening!

[FabricatedWookie]

Calbeb wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

John Epler wrote...

A) If you have nothing constructive to post, please don't post. You aren't adding anything to the board or the thread.

That being said, anyone who you'd hope to make aware of your concerns via this method is aware of your concerns. At the end of the day, though, it's your money, and you can certainly spend it however you'd like. But if you're trying to spread your message this is not going to do much more than waste 5$ from 1800 people. Again, though - it's your money.

Then why was the response a flat no to the issues raised? Also known as we have to agree with space hitler?

Did you just refer to Bioware as Hitler because they didn't do what the fans said they should?

You don't have to buy their games if you don't want to.

Bioware isn't in space. I believe space hitler is the tiny ghost child telling you to kill alllllll the geth of or make organic and synthetic one. TO HAVE A MASTER RACE!

[Calbeb]

FabricatedWookie wrote...

Calbeb wrote...

Vilegrim wrote...

John Epler wrote...

A) If you have nothing constructive to post, please don't post. You aren't adding anything to the board or the thread.

That being said, anyone who you'd hope to make aware of your concerns via this method is aware of your concerns. At the end of the day, though, it's your money, and you can certainly spend it however you'd like. But if you're trying to spread your message this is not going to do much more than waste 5$ from 1800 people. Again, though - it's your money.

Then why was the response a flat no to the issues raised? Also known as we have to agree with space hitler?

Did you just refer to Bioware as Hitler because they didn't do what the fans said they should?

You don't have to buy their games if you don't want to.

Bioware isn't in space. I believe space hitler is the tiny ghost child telling you to kill alllllll the geth of or make organic and synthetic one. TO HAVE A MASTER RACE!

Kk. Comment retracted.