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The Credit Glitch - Repurcussions?


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#76
TranceOrphen

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Quxorda wrote...
I'm not defending the cheaters, but why does it effect you in any way? It's a co-op game, not competitive, and even if you joined a game full of people who bought stought using credits gained from said exploit.. those items are still balanced, they aren't given god mode or insta-kill weapons simply by credit glitching.

/shrug, maybe it's just me but I really don't see how someone else glitching credits does any harm to me in this game.


If a man kills someone completely unrelated to you, it doesn't harm you in the slightest, yet he is still punished.

The rules are there for a reason.

#77
Duhfensive

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Quxorda wrote...

Duhfensive wrote...

There is a credit glitch (Not Going to Tell it) where players can get to round 10 and keep repeating round 10 on gold for $45000 credits immediately. It is EXTREMELY unfair for legit players and I am wondering what BIoware will do to these cheaters. It ruins the fun of the game when people have to cheat.

Bioware, are you aware of this glitch and what will you do?


I'm not defending the cheaters, but why does it effect you in any way? It's a co-op game, not competitive, and even if you joined a game full of people who bought stought using credits gained from said exploit.. those items are still balanced, they aren't given god mode or insta-kill weapons simply by credit glitching.

/shrug, maybe it's just me but I really don't see how someone else glitching credits does any harm to me in this game.


I can see why people would cheat in a competetive game, it's fun to run around and kill people with godmode, etc. But cheating in a cooperative game makes it seem like what you're doing is pointless. The whole point of MP is to try to get all the guns, rank up, etc. So when a cheater can get 450,000+ credits in the time it takes you to get 70,000.....

Why spend 20-40 minutes on a gold to get 70,000 credits when a glitcher can get 45000 every 2-3 minutes. It kind defeats the purpose of MP and makes me want to go play another game. 

#78
Aj90lfc

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PaperAlien wrote...

It affects us because we can possibly be banned by EA just for playing in these games, and we have to constantly check our credit number to see if it hasn't suddenly risen by a ludicrous amount.


Not really, i'm pretty sure if you kept having a wave of enemies with an objective it'd obvious unless you're a complete m***n

#79
vware

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I just looked it up. Who is desperate enough to go through all that...

#80
James D Sidious

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vware wrote...

I just looked it up. Who is desperate enough to go through all that...


through all what? it's basically three button presses?:bandit:

#81
astheoceansblue

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AxisEvolve wrote...

jamesfrom818 wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

saturos2 wrote...

who cares? its not like its PvP.

You have to be pretty childish to cheat in a co-op mode to begin with. 

You'd have to be pretty childish to care about what other people do in a co-op mode. 

You'd have to be pretty childish to care about what a random person on the internet thinks is childish.

See what I'm doing? Don't like what I say? Move on.


He was merelky pointing out how pointless it is to worry about other's loadouts in a co-op game that's based around beating the rounds as fast as you can AS A TEAM to win credit to unlock stuff.

If anything a teammate having a b.Widow X is going to be beneficial to you as YOU get to win more often.

Also, there are rich people out there who will spend xxx dollars to get the stuff  they want, what would you do if you came across one of those?

You can allways build up a friends list and just play with people who share your mindset.

Instead of getting upset about what others have, why not work with what YOU'VE got?

#82
Rohirrim

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Impulse and Compulse wrote...

There's been enough unrest about the contents of the packs themselves (especially character cards) for Bioware to know that their system isn't perfect. If you're lazy enough to pay money for stuff you could earn for free by playing a game, I doubt you'd have the time to repeatedly beat round 10 on gold over and over again in the first place.

Dear god, stop acting like people are pushing a button and getting credits. They're still beating the game on the hardest difficulty, not hurting anyone (except apparently EA, who is losing so much money off of people being slightly less defeated at the pathetic drop rates), why get so angry? It's a game, they don't criticize you for the way you play, let them enjoy the damn game that they paid for without shoving your stupid guidelines down their throats. They're not hacking, they're not modifying the game, they're just skipping the boring, easy levels. If EA wasn't so uptight about the PC version being exactly like the console version, I guarantee you that something like this would be running 24/7 on PC servers.

And no, I haven't tried it yet, but I plan on it some time, especially if I can't get the DLC stuff with all the credits I saved up. I know it's free, but dangling a "free" carrot in front of our face that we're not actually meant to get and then telling us that we need to pay you if we want to get it immediately is underhanded.

tl:dr it's a coop shooter, they're still playing the normal, unmodified game, it's within everyone's power to do it, the only harm it does to you is the harm you inflict on yourself agonizing over a pointless issue, who cares if your partner's sniper rifle is 3 levels higher than yours, etc.

 
Agreed. Wave 10 is usually the most interesting of all and certainly the hardest. I find Silver challenging enough, but if guys play wave 10 on Gold over and over instead of FB: White farming, it's the same thing - just more interesting and less repetitive, I guess.

#83
Rohirrim

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BiO_MaN wrote...

Should rename the title to "Reapercussions"

oh oh I know, I'm sorry. I'll just be going now. :wizard:


I like it. :)

#84
Rohirrim

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TranceOrphen wrote...

Quxorda wrote...
I'm not defending the cheaters, but why does it effect you in any way? It's a co-op game, not competitive, and even if you joined a game full of people who bought stought using credits gained from said exploit.. those items are still balanced, they aren't given god mode or insta-kill weapons simply by credit glitching.

/shrug, maybe it's just me but I really don't see how someone else glitching credits does any harm to me in this game.


If a man kills someone completely unrelated to you, it doesn't harm you in the slightest, yet he is still punished.

The rules are there for a reason.


The man in your example obviously harmed SOMEBODY in our society and should be punished. A player of a cooperative video game using a glitch to earn credits faster than she/ he normally would does not harm anybody.

#85
ElementL09

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Its more of an exploit, I pretty sure Biowares aware of it and may plan to patch it along with some other issues in multiplayer.

Additionally, doing the exploit doesn't effect other players. All of the players have to play through wave 10, which on gold is pretty rough, so players are still playing game as intended. This is cooperative multiplayer, not competitive multiplayer. There is a difference in how one players actions effects anothers experience. The worse thing a person can do in a cooperative multiplayer is not be a teammate or kick you for no reason at all, even though your readied up. While exploits and glitches are frowned upon, I don't think (a general players point of view) that its a bannable offense.

To me, its just farming credits but in a different way. I could choose my Geth Engineer and choose a small map with Geth as enemies and do really well on it and consistently earn credits. While I may be playing the game as intended, its still farming because I play it over and over again. To me, this exploit or glitch is just farming credits in a different/quicker way. Player are still playing the game at the end of day.

Its going to be patched regardless and even if players do farm credits there are players who shell out actual money for ingame merchandise. What I'm trying to say is that it really doesn't matter when it comes down to it. If players want to spend time farming credits then so be it, there are plenty other players who will spend even less time with the game by buying packs with actual money.

#86
Zerox Z21

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Seems a shame if it gets patched/punished for. It's partly the devs fault for allowing it to happen, so punishing players for playing the game in their own way seems harsh, they're not having an effect on anyone apart from themselves.

Besides that, this and the Firebase White/Geth farming are happening because the unlock system for items is so poorly implemented and people just actually want the damn class and weapons they want to use and play with. I still have not even unlocked half the unlock characters and less than half of the weapons. I have to a reasonable extent been farming. I'll stop as soon as I get the single weapon and class I want to use, which I haven't in over a month of farming. I don't play all the time or obsessively, so surely that says something about the system?

Monetary gain reasons are dumb because A. you're not obliged to buy the packs and B. their random nature makes spending real money really offputting. If there was a part of the system that wasn't as random as it is I'd be more inclined to.

There's just far too much to unlock on a random system, especially when you get unwanted repeats.

I justwant to have fun and play casually but for now I'm forced to use characters and weapons that I don't find fun until I get the ones I really want. The fact it takes as long is this is just outrageous.

Modifié par Zerox Z21, 17 avril 2012 - 11:01 .


#87
StingerSplash01

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Zerox Z21 wrote...

Seems a shame if it gets patched/punished for. It's partly the devs fault for allowing it to happen, so punishing players for playing the game in their own way seems harsh, they're not having an effect on anyone apart from themselves.

Besides that, this and the Firebase White/Geth farming are happening because the unlock system for items is so poorly implemented and people just actually want the damn class and weapons they want to use and play with. I still have not even unlocked half the unlock characters and less than half of the weapons. I have to a reasonable extent been farming. I'll stop as soon as I get the single weapon and class I want to use, which I haven't in over a month of farming. I don't play all the time or obsessively, so surely that says something about the system?

Monetary gain reasons are dumb because A. you're not obliged to buy the packs and B. their random nature makes spending real money really offputting. If there was a part of the system that wasn't as random as it is I'd be more inclined to.

There's just far too much to unlock on a random system, especially when you get unwanted repeats.

I justwant to have fun and play casually but for now I'm forced to use characters and weapons that I don't find fun until I get the ones I really want. The fact it takes as long is this is just outrageous.


Why would they check to see if when the Host leaves in the first 10 seconds of game, a game he has complete control of the settings for, to see if by doing so it requests old data from a buffer/cache that causes you to play the last enemy and wave you faced in the previous game. The act goes against logic which is why they didn't think to check it during testing.

As for the system it is a progression based system, because as you obtain the lower ranked weapons and characters and slowly max them out, your chance for getting the rarer weapons and characters goes up as well. The fact that you want a specific weapon and class/character combo is factored into the system as well. Ever notice that you seem to get more of the weapon types you don't use?

The randomness of the system is also designed to keep you playing as if you could just purchase the character and weapon you want you would have no reason to spend your credits on anything else as you got what you want. This also causes the negative response that the game gets boring quicker, since you have your weapon and charcter the gameplay gets staler quicker.

You are supposed to progress through multiplayer in much the same way as other games. You start off playing bronze to earn cash to buy recruit packs (this maxes out your starter weapons and characters very quickly), after that is done your progress to silver where you begin buying veteran packs (which net you silvers regularly  and golds occasionly), after that you progress to gold or stay on silver and start buying Spectre Packs which at this point will should almost exclusivly give you golds and N7 Stripes, Ultra-rares, since your characters up to this point should all almost have all of their appearance customizations and if they are all twenty they shouldn't give characters that you have all customizations for, you at this point should have all the mods maxed making them not appear, leaving just weapons to obtain and once you have all the golds maxed that just leaves N7-stripes to obtain.

The progression is incredibily sound, and the randomiztion stretches out the length of time it takes to complete to around 4-5 months from when you start.

End of Zero Reply

On to new post

As for the glitch I have done it a few times (I'll admit it but nowhere near the extent I have seen or heard of other people doing it). I probably made at most 500000 to 1.5M doing it over the past month or so (nearer the low end though), and I'm only a third of the way, if that,  through progression (I mainly did it to unlock the characters I was missing just so I could try them out).

HOWEVER it affects a few systems and measurements for Bioware (not even looking at EA). To start off it obviously screws progression, since this is the first time they have done multiplayer and the first time they have doing a system like this (outside of ME1 progression system for weapons) the metric they lose out on is how long it takes to complete progression since this glitch screws that timing up. What through statistical probability should have taken months for people to complete now they are doing in weeks, if not days.

The glitch also indirectly affects leaderboards and the single player campaign, by obtaining the Ubers earlier than normal, progressing characters becomes that much easier. This higher than normal (for a given timeframe) amount of promoted characters means that people are beginning to skyrocket through the leaderboards due to inherit boost to their N7 ratings from easier leveling. This heavier progression means that people would need to complete even less of the campaign (their pride and joy also this is not to invite discussions of the ending, let us leave that dog of a topic sleeping) to achieve the best endings.

Finally as I mentioned before, it also affects replayability of the MP. Due to people obtaining the Ubers earlier than intended, it means that you will possibily grow tired of the MP quicker than normal, since you are no longer swapping older weapons for better ones anywhere near as contantly for standard progression is. This last reason is why I stopped doing it, it was ruining the Multiplayer for me by making it less fun and almost like a job so I decided it was no longer worth doing. Spending 4 hours with new to the game randoms on bronze to buy a single Resurgence pack today was a ton of fun and the credits I was earned was a bonus.

Also for those who say that turning off data collection will not nessecarily prevent from telling you are doing the glitch. Once you start spending your credits, there are a number of way they can tell all because purchasing the packs still queries their server, as does starting a match or entering a match, which they can monitor that way using filters. Say for instance you have made millions doing the glitch, and your begin buying packs. Your purchase sends a query to their server telling them, possibily, what pack you just purchased. A large amount of purchases inbetween games, or even a larger than normal for gold runners (complete games on gold which net you at most a set amount of credits), can send a red flag to bioware, which could then put you on a watch list. Once on that watch list, if they are able to track game starts and finishes irregardless of datamine settings, they can compare the match times to the known fastest gold run averages with approximations on when these speed runners reached wave 3,6, and 10. If you are spending more on average than what these speed runners make or spend in the same amount of time (most likely against wave 3 times and credit values) then you are most likely glitching (or saving up a huge of credits for what????). Of course with datamining on these checks would be easier and more foolproof, however people who turn off datamining can't participate in events or earn extra xp so actually having them off is a moot point.

#88
InfamousResult

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You broke your Terms of Service, you deserve to get banned.

It's not rocket science and it's not morals. It's just that simple.

#89
Scalabrine

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Well what if i told you, that they don't have any way to monitor this?

#90
RazRei

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How about they fix the store and all the other bugs that's been around since launch then worry about people exploiting the game?

#91
dday3six

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RazRei wrote...

How about they fix the store and all the other bugs that's been around since launch then worry about people exploiting the game?


I second this.

#92
InfamousResult

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RazRei wrote...

How about they fix the store and all the other bugs that's been around since launch then worry about people exploiting the game?


How about they do both, since they likely have two separate teams for handling those specific problems? I mean, why would you think that the guys who fix bugs are the same exact guys who ban players? That's silly.

Scalabrine wrote...

Well what if i told you, that they don't have any way to monitor this?


You'd be wrong.

inb4 "hurr durr you just have to turn feedback off that totally works"

Modifié par InfamousResult, 23 avril 2012 - 02:04 .


#93
StingerSplash01

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InfamousResult wrote...

You broke your Terms of Service, you deserve to get banned.

It's not rocket science and it's not morals. It's just that simple.


Banning is a little harsh, especially for a company like Bioware/EA who are under a lot of flak right now. The best course of action for something like this (since it is not adversely affecting millions of people at once from overuse and doesn't adversely affect other players) is to implement a staggered/tiered punsihment system, escpecially since warnings a given on almost any online service to deter unwanted behaviour without removing the users completely. A system like (for each transgression after annoucement of active enforcement):
1.) 3 day ban (you actually have to play multiple games in a day for it to count as time served) from earning credits and xp

2.) 7 day ban from earning xp and credits PLUS ineligibility in one or two N7 weekends,

3.) 1 month ban (realtime have to play multiple games in a week at this point) PLUS ineligibilty for all N7 weekends (or this will be a place to definitely start multiplayer resets),

3 or 4.) Complete Reset of Multiplayer Progression

4 or 5.) Ban from Multiplayer completely

Just outright banning people (considering the sheer number of people doing it) would further alienate their already angry fanbase, which could cause them to simply stop playing Bioware games completely. This is also goes against their belief in supporting a thriving community, since at the start of outright bans the forums would just get filled with why did I get banned threads choking the other topics out of the front page. I would accept a reset for what I have already done (as this doesn't remove a user from it), but a ban seems a little harsh unless you have glitched tens of millions (15m+) over a couple week period since it was found or have subsequently turned off datamining in an attempt to hide what your doing (since this is an admission of guilt and active neglect of ToS since you are trying to hide your actions in much the same way that a thief will cover their tracks). Also banning from multiplayer completely is more likely to cause problems with legit players, when someone who has made all their credits legitly gets banned for simply earning them a little too fast. There is also the ex post facto part where if they ban people for doing it before they annouce active enforcement (before the punishment is made clear on Bioware's part since EA will mainly ban the heaviest abusers outright) this could cause even more flak to be thrown their way, and not just from their fanbase considering the press their other controversies have already garnered around ME3. Also since this is Bioware's first true multiplayer component to a game (excluding Bioware Austin from this as well as the Old Republic), going right to banhammers for the first exploit found within their first multiplayer component could be seen very negatively as well.

Modifié par StingerSplash01, 23 avril 2012 - 02:14 .


#94
InfamousResult

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Banning is a little harsh


Oh, I'm not saying it wouldn't be "a little harsh".

I just said they deserved to be banned. Or, maybe something that people would prefer to hear: Bioware and EA would be fully within their rights to ban any or all of these people, because they broke the Terms of Service.

In addition: BECAUSE these people broke the contract, they have given EA/Bioware the right to ban them at any time. They could choose not to ban all the players who abused the exploit for the exact reason you mentioned: Public outcry. But all the people who abused the exploits have given EA/Bioware every right to ban them at any time, down the road, for no reason if they want to. And they wouldn't be obligated to give a reason, either.

#95
joshynoob

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TranceOrphen wrote...

Quxorda wrote...
I'm not defending the cheaters, but why does it effect you in any way? It's a co-op game, not competitive, and even if you joined a game full of people who bought stought using credits gained from said exploit.. those items are still balanced, they aren't given god mode or insta-kill weapons simply by credit glitching.

/shrug, maybe it's just me but I really don't see how someone else glitching credits does any harm to me in this game.


If a man kills someone completely unrelated to you, it doesn't harm you in the slightest, yet he is still punished.

The rules are there for a reason.


I would hardly equate getting a few more packs a day than someone else to MURDERING another individual. Seriously, who allowed you to post in these forums<_<

#96
StingerSplash01

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InfamousResult wrote...

Banning is a little harsh


Oh, I'm not saying it wouldn't be "a little harsh".

I just said they deserved to be banned. Or, maybe something that people would prefer to hear: Bioware and EA would be fully within their rights to ban any or all of these people, because they broke the Terms of Service.

In addition: BECAUSE these people broke the contract, they have given EA/Bioware the right to ban them at any time. They could choose not to ban all the players who abused the exploit for the exact reason you mentioned: Public outcry. But all the people who abused the exploits have given EA/Bioware every right to ban them at any time, down the road, for no reason if they want to. And they wouldn't be obligated to give a reason, either.


I have edited my post to include more information, but it is important to know where to draw the line since a person could join into a glitch game by accident (this is how I was introduced to it). When they recieve 45,000 credits out of blue, human nature is to stay with it when something is benficial to you (this is why Pyramid schemes, drug donkeys, and other illegal things work so well) since the inherint risk is less than the reward. So most people would initially stay to continue to benefit since they fell into it. They may, or may not, realize what is going on. I stopped once I realized it was ruining my experience completely (inhernit risk now outweighs the reward). Also the ToS is never explicitly expressed in the 360 version (it may be in the manual but in game no as far as I know), and most people (we are talking about 65-95%) never read the ToS (they simply accept it blindly as it is a hinderence to playing multiplayer since gamers tend to be an impatient lot). As I said I fully accept a multiplayer reset (Multiplayer rank reset, loss of all characters and weapons (outside of those earned from other sources BF3 character, purchased packs (in my case I actually got a widow and salarian infiltrator from purchased packs), bonus content from other purchases (collector rifle, etc.)) as those would stem from outside purchases and shouldn't be removed but if they were I'd still accept that as I made the mistake of staying in the lobby once I found out was going on (in my case I think that the BF3 should remain unlocked no matter what since that is a special promotion character).

#97
xX 7heGuy Xx

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Im surprised they BW hasn't acted out against it yet to be honest. Personally idk, nor did i care thru the halo reach crap. But i wouldn't dare do it as i know the banhammer is coming. Think about it, people can spend real money in the store and with this glitch people are not going to be as likely to give in and buy the packs with cash so that clearly hurts BW potential profit. If BW does nothing i'll be surprised.

#98
A Wild Snorlax

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You can't blame people for credit glitching with the way the store works.I'm not doing it because it's very tedious, besides every pack I get is bs character cards now for probably 100 packs in a row and it doesn't look like my luck is going to change any time soon so I might as well just play normally instead of grinding for credits that will give me nothing in return.

But i can't blame people for doing it at all. The unlock system is ****ing bs, especially after you've maxed the gold items. Character cards as far as the eye can see.....

#99
InfamousResult

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Also the ToS is never explicitly expressed in the 360 version


Pretty sure you have to accept the ToS to join up with EA Online Services ( or "Origin" ), which is a requirement for the Multiplayer. If I'm wrong and you didn't have to do that, feel free to correct me- but if you already had an account before you bought ME3, you still accepted the ToS. It spans across all games that use the service.

Regardless, my point continues to stand- they would have every right to ban these people, if they chose to.

#100
RazRei

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InfamousResult wrote...

RazRei wrote...

How about they fix the store and all the other bugs that's been around since launch then worry about people exploiting the game?


How about they do both, since they likely have two separate teams for handling those specific problems? I mean, why would you think that the guys who fix bugs are the same exact guys who ban players? That's silly.

Scalabrine wrote...

Well what if i told you, that they don't have any way to monitor this?


You'd be wrong.

inb4 "hurr durr you just have to turn feedback off that totally works"


Because they're slow as **** to fix anything in this game.  So why not use all the "man power" to actually fix an issue and move on to the next one.