86 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

I just played KOA again and it occured to me that rather than have fixed classes it would be more interesting to combine skills into classes.

For those unfamiliar with KOA it works something like this. There are three paths, Warrior,Rogue and Mage. Getting X skills in a path or combination of paths gives you a class in the form of a card. That card has certain ability modifiers or changes in how the character operates. For example Mages teleport rather than dodge (like D&D blink).

You still have you basic 3 paths for people who are married to the idea of a class system. But you also have a lot of room to play around with different skills to form customised classes.

Specialisations under this system would effectively be one of those cards with relevent abilities.

For example Ranger would be X number of Warrior points and X number of Rogue points - which would open up the ranger card and add the ability to charm an animal companion and track.

Bard would be X number of Mage and X number of Rogue - which would allow for over time effects via singing or spreading self buffs to the party.

Allowing the option to respec would probably not be a bad idea either.

[klebaart]

I don't know about that, it would completely change the gameplay but also assume that the PC is a mage, as not everyone is able to use magic in Thedas.

[Mmw04014]

klebaart wrote...

I don't know about that, it would completely change the gameplay but also assume that the PC is a mage, as not everyone is able to use magic in Thedas.

This.

You can simply unlock being a mage. It isn't something to be learned.

Modifié par Mmw04014, 10 avril 2012 - 12:43 .

[ohmaaan]

What about the class specific quests (if Bioware chose to do them) or class specific dialogue?
It would'nt work then. I also heard someone mentioning that when you're a bloodmage people will know it instead of just saying nothing, as was the case in DA2...I think thats a big improvement.

[mutermath]

ohmaaan wrote...
 I also heard someone mentioning that when you're a bloodmage people will know it instead of just saying nothing, as was the case in DA2...I think thats a big improvement.

Really? that happens? i never noticed, have to play the game again

[Mmw04014]

mutermath wrote...

ohmaaan wrote...
 I also heard someone mentioning that when you're a bloodmage people will know it instead of just saying nothing, as was the case in DA2...I think thats a big improvement.

Really? that happens? i never noticed, have to play the game again

No, he meant it doesn't happen in DA2, but Bioware said they wanted it to have an impact if you chose it in the next game.

[ohmaaan]

Im sorry, what I meant was that in DA2 noone really acknowledges you being a blood mage. That is supposed to change in DA:The next thing.

[GodWood]

Yes. Limitations and handicaps are fun.

[ohmaaan]

GodWood wrote...

Yes. Limitations and handicaps are fun.

If the limitations and handicaps are for the sake of better story, character interaction and world interaction overall then yes. I would very much enjoy seeing my companions reactions when I tell them im a blood mage for example. If im rogue, perhaps go sneak in a castle with my other rogue party member for a quest.
or use my bow and arrow to kill an enemy from long distance in an epic cutscene (class specific).
I dont think any of that would happen if I just slap all classes together like an oversized hamburger.

EDIT: I am also probably missing the entire point of OP due to sleepyness.
I will just go to sleep now.

Modifié par ohmaaan, 10 avril 2012 - 01:57 .

[Takamori The Templar]

Godwood you are playing an RPG, not a MMO.
Choices should have consequences.
If you choose to be a Black Guard on D&D for example people will see your as the epitome of repression.
Pain and suffering will arrive to those who break the laws that he is bond to.
Fear is the consequence.

A blood mage when they reveal theirselves, should had the same limitations due to the great power with no bounds that he receive.

[FedericoV]

KoA class system is cool (the basic idea is stolen from Titan Quest, imho, but that's beside the point). The number of cross-classes is amazing and as Yathzee has said in his review, I really do not envy the person in charge for naming all the various permutations .

I would like a more open class system than DA2 one but it's hard to implement it like KoA with all the iconic look and weapon restrictions of the actual design direction. Maybe they could expand on the personalized ability tree used in DA2 to have something like D&D 3 Prestige classes for each NPC.

[AkiKishi]

ohmaaan wrote...

What about the class specific quests (if Bioware chose to do them) or class specific dialogue?
It would'nt work then. I also heard someone mentioning that when you're a bloodmage people will know it instead of just saying nothing, as was the case in DA2...I think thats a big improvement.

Not really a problem, you could still do class specific stuff like quests as long as you had the right card.

For example if blood magic required certain pre-requiste skills and a total number of points spent in the magic tree. Once you get that you are approached by the quest giver. There is no real fundamental difference in doing away with classes beyond not locking you into certain talent trees.

[AkiKishi]

klebaart wrote...

I don't know about that, it would completely change the gameplay but also assume that the PC is a mage, as not everyone is able to use magic in Thedas.

Should be no real changes in gameplay at all. It will just mix and match skills more rather than directing you down a narrower path as it does now.

The events in DA2 were pretty cataclysmic I'm sure someone could come up with some sort of plausilble lore resulting from it.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 10 avril 2012 - 03:39 .

[the_one_54321]

BobSmith101 wrote...
Do we really need classes?

I can't say that they are strictly requierd to have a good role playing experience, but I prefer to have them. They outline a template of uses and limitations that make character creation and application quicker and easier while still being effective.

[Pasquale1234]

I don't think such a system would work very well in Thedas, largely due to the whole mage-identity thing.  If a character is deemed to be a mage, they are expected to be in the circle.  If not, they are considered apostates, and may be hunted by Templars.

Also - a lot of the gameplay is built around the "party system", so to speak.  The implementation of cross-class combos created some additional interdependencies among the different classes.

[the_one_54321]

Pasquale1234 wrote...
Also - a lot of the gameplay is built around the "party system", so to speak.  The implementation of cross-class combos created some additional interdependencies among the different classes.

On of the freedoms of a "classless" system is that you can tailor any character to fit any role you wish. Which means you can take whomever you like with you in the party, and still have all the roles filled.

The problem is being able to properly construct a role within the system, and round out a fully functioning team, without any class template to go by.

[Pasquale1234]

the_one_54321 wrote...

On of the freedoms of a "classless" system is that you can tailor any character to fit any role you wish. Which means you can take whomever you like with you in the party, and still have all the roles filled.

The problem is being able to properly construct a role within the system, and round out a fully functioning team, without any class template to go by.

Which sounds great, but isn't going to solve the mage-identity thing, and it is a pretty significant factor in the setting.

Given the restrictions put in place from DAO --> DA2, it seems that BioWare has gone in the opposite direction.  More restrictions on which weapons each class is allowed to use, and more restrictions on which skill trees each companion is allowed to access.

I'd love to have greater latitude in character definition and role-playing, but at this point am not terribly hopeful about getting it. 

[Maria Caliban]

No, you don't need classes.

BioWare finds classes useful for the sort of game they want to make, and non-class systems are much harder to balance.

[the_one_54321]

Pasquale1234 wrote...
Which sounds great, but isn't going to solve the mage-identity thing, and it is a pretty significant factor in the setting.

That's actually very easy to solve. You just assign a point system for buying abilities, and you have to spend a number of points to open the mage tree up. That makes you a mage.

[ohmaaan]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...
Which sounds great, but isn't going to solve the mage-identity thing, and it is a pretty significant factor in the setting.

That's actually very easy to solve. You just assign a point system for buying abilities, and you have to spend a number of points to open the mage tree up. That makes you a mage.

Not sure if serious or trolling...

[andar91]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...
Which sounds great, but isn't going to solve the mage-identity thing, and it is a pretty significant factor in the setting.

That's actually very easy to solve. You just assign a point system for buying abilities, and you have to spend a number of points to open the mage tree up. That makes you a mage.

To quote Wynne, "People don't become mages, they are born mages." You either have magic or you don't (unless, of course, Bioware introduces some weird sort of Lyrium syndrome or something where a non-mage can suddenly develop magical power. Granted, magic can emerge at any age (I think), but it's vastly more common during adolescence. 

classless systems for DA could work, but you'd have to have some sort of 'check if you have magic' option during character creation. My concern would be balancing, as Maria Caliban mentioned.

[the_one_54321]

ohmaaan wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...
Which sounds great, but isn't going to solve the mage-identity thing, and it is a pretty significant factor in the setting.

That's actually very easy to solve. You just assign a point system for buying abilities, and you have to spend a number of points to open the mage tree up. That makes you a mage.

Not sure if serious or trolling...

If you want a system that has no classes, but still allows for mages as they exist in Thedas, this is an easy way to do it. Instead of getting direct ability sellections from leveling up, each new level gives you a number of points to spend, and each new ability costs a certain number of points. If you want to be a mage, then then you buy mage at level one, or whenever you level up.

[the_one_54321]

andar91 wrote...
To quote Wynne, "People don't become mages, they are born mages." You either have magic or you don't

Again, very easy to address. Limit mage to a level one ability selection.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 10 avril 2012 - 04:57 .

[Maria Caliban]

No, it doesn't solve the problem, but solving it is easy.

Have a selection of talents that you can only buy at level one. Have one be 'Magical Talent.' The spells all require this talent to use.

You can also have level one race talents and have race specific abilities this way.