86 réponses à ce sujet

[the_one_54321]

Pasquale1234 wrote...
That would work for the PC, but I am wondering how you would envision such a system working for companions.

Some companions have the mage tallent tree open, others do not.

[Maria Caliban]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Did you all already forget that the only needed requirement is that you select mage at level 1? I said this only on the last page.

That would work for the PC, but I am wondering how you would envision such a system working for companions.

Some of them have the talent, others don't. BioWare games already restrict how you can allocate companion abilities.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Some of them have the talent, others don't. BioWare games already restrict how you can allocate companion abilities.

And while that's typically moddable (I like to assign all of my companions' abilities), depending how the magic talent is implemented that might not even be a problem.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Frankaidenryan wrote...

Rogues and tanks are two very seperate entities and I would really want to keep it that way.

I want the opposite.  I hate enforcing combat roles through class selection, and I love that DAO didn't do that.  Leliana could tank in DAO.  But Isabela makes a lousy tank in DA2.

Moreover, reliance upon defined combat roles leads to encounter design that panders to those roles.  DAO is playable without a tank at all.  DA2 gets quite a bit harder without a tank.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 11 avril 2012 - 06:36 .

[AkiKishi]

philippe willaume wrote...
I do agree with you BobS101
but Esper point is that in Thedas "real world" mage have a special edcuation ie they do not have access to the same skillset as the rest of the population.

I.E choosing a magic connected skill/talents tree/perks should have an effect on the cost or the avaliability of non magical talent. ideally that should vary foe being an apostate or a good chantry boy/girl.

phil

How do mages or anyone else for that matter gain skills/spells ? It's an abstract concept that killing X number of Y means you can now cast fireball.

Morrigan/Flemeth point out there are "wild mages". You can also avoid the circle like Hawke did,plenty of plausible ways that do not compromise the lore.  

The talent trees should balance themselves out. Someone with full investment in the mage tree will be a better mage, but considerably more "squishy" than someone with a split W/M focus.

[AkiKishi]

[quote]Pasquale1234 wrote...

[quote]the_one_54321 wrote...


That would work for the PC, but I am wondering how you would envision such a system working for companions.

I guess I would assume there would be mage and non-mage companions just as there are now, but you don't meet all of them right away, and in the meantime they might need to be leveled up by the game.

[/quote]

Companions have their own skill trees anyway. It's down to whatever is included in them. They dont have , or need the same variety as the PC. But some ability to change their roles would be a good step, rather than having a "tank" character or a "mage" character.

[philippe willaume]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Did you all already forget that the only needed requirement is that you select mage at level 1? I said this only on the last page.

nope i did not forget
I though that the point was there are several way to makes "class limitation" works even in a class-less system.
kind of the same thing as the "classless" ipaddress where you have still class A,b and C through the subnetmask.
phil

[philippe willaume]

BobSmith101 wrote...

philippe willaume wrote...
I do agree with you BobS101
but Esper point is that in Thedas "real world" mage have a special edcuation ie they do not have access to the same skillset as the rest of the population.

I.E choosing a magic connected skill/talents tree/perks should have an effect on the cost or the avaliability of non magical talent. ideally that should vary foe being an apostate or a good chantry boy/girl.

phil

How do mages or anyone else for that matter gain skills/spells ? It's an abstract concept that killing X number of Y means you can now cast fireball.

Morrigan/Flemeth point out there are "wild mages". You can also avoid the circle like Hawke did,plenty of plausible ways that do not compromise the lore.  

The talent trees should balance themselves out. Someone with full investment in the mage tree will be a better mage, but considerably more "squishy" than someone with a split W/M focus.

Yes that was my point
apostate/wild mages must have developed other skill than the one taught into the chantry.

class based or class less,  an inherent problem of level based game is that it does not really scale well unless performance is level based or at least much more dependant on level than it is on attribute.
 
If that is the case talent could be linked to attributes, otherwise multy classed char will be penalised.
 
phil

[philippe willaume]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Frankaidenryan wrote...

Rogues and tanks are two very seperate entities and I would really want to keep it that way.

I want to opposite.  I hate enforcing combat roles through class selection, and I love that DAO didn't do that.  Leliana could tank in DAO.  But Isabela makes a lousy tank in DA2.

Moreover, reliance upon defined combat roles leads to encounter design that panders to those roles.  DAO is playable without a tank at all.  DA2 gets quite a bit harder without a tank.

amen..
plus the more restrictive the class are the less game play diversity you get and the less viable sub-optimal builds are
phil

[Wozearly]

BobSmith101 wrote...

The talent trees should balance themselves out. Someone with full investment in the mage tree will be a better mage, but considerably more "squishy" than someone with a split W/M focus.

Yes, but for that to work well it requires the cost / benefit trade-off of the hybrid to be worthwhile - and survivability isn't necessarily the best option to pick, because you can boost defences via armour, stat choices, resistances, defensive potions and healing potions, not just through abilities.

Its more about the tactical roles being played. Why would your mage want to pick up some sword options? Okay, so in close combat he can drop spellcasting and take his sword out as a last-ditch defence - clearly better than being caught with a blunt stick, but the alternative route would be to ensure your other characters' strengths can cover his weaknesses - ie, your tank pulls, or other classes bring disables, so that people with pointy swords don't get near your mage in the first place.

The advantage of that is that your mage is free to be magey, your tank can focus on being tanky, etc. The only time hybrids come into their own in those situations is where you're either very limited in number of companions and can't specialise as much as you'd like, or you have 'too many' companions and have all of the key roles covered, at which point there becomes an advantage to having someone who can support in more than one area despite the drop to overall effectiveness.

[seraphymon]

BobSmith101 wrote...
How do mages or anyone else for that matter gain skills/spells ? It's an abstract concept that killing X number of Y means you can now cast fireball.

Morrigan/Flemeth point out there are "wild mages". You can also avoid the circle like Hawke did,plenty of plausible ways that do not compromise the lore.  

The talent trees should balance themselves out. Someone with full investment in the mage tree will be a better mage, but considerably more "squishy" than someone with a split W/M focus.

It doesnt compromise the lore, because they are still mages. People born with magic. You cant be a non mage and learn magic. Thats why dwarves cant be mages.

Now you can argue about putting forth alternatives to magic, such as something similar to a spirit warrior, or Fenris special trait, to allow for a sort of hybrid thing. BUt magic non magic is a tough wall to break.

[Davillo]

You must be referring to a fable style class system, which is good but for this game you want classes.


Leliana looked totally cool with a small buckler and a dagger when she
had to meele, and she could still backstab. This series has to go back
to that but using the new playstyle.

Modifié par Davillo, 11 avril 2012 - 11:42 .