43 réponses à ce sujet

[EnerPrime]

Seriously, thew hole dextro/levo food incompatibility is completely nonsensical. I understand if that the writers just wanted to add a facet to turians and quarians to make them more alien, but the fact is that they tried to back it up with real science and got that science fundamentaly wrong.

For starters, let's assume that since dextro species eat in a similar manner to us means that their digestive and metabolic processes are more or less the same kind that humans have. Human bodies have nine amino acids referred to as 'essential', because the body is incapapable of making them in it's own. All other amino acids neccesary for life are created in the body. Assuming dextro metabolisms operate the same way, all a dextro would need to live off levo food is dietary supplements containing their species' essential amino acids.

Secondly, assuming the mere presence of dextro acids in primarily levo species (and vice versa) would result in any negative consequences is wrong. You, all of you levo humans reading this, have dextro amino acids in you at this very moment. The human body predominantly uses levo amino acids, yes, but it also synthesises and uses it's own dextro amino acids to use for certain functions. Assuming eating food based on dextro acids would harm humans is erroneous. Assuming that the dextro acids are the only potential danger, then at worst your body would simply not take in any amino acid based nutrients while still making use of all the other  nutrients in the food.

Which brings me to my third point. Amino acids are not the be all end all of nutrition. Salt, carbohydrates, fatty acids and all other types of nutrients that aren't protein don't give a crap about amino acid chirality. Most types of nutrients don't have chiralities, and therfore should be universal.

TL;DR? The lore of the games sciencefails when it comes to biochemistry, and there's no reason that Garrus and Tali couldn't eat human food as long as they had a source of the amino acids their bodies can't make on their own.

[Doctor Uburian]

This is actually a very interesting thing to read.

Good catch

[L. Han]

Come on! It's just a game. Not everything has to make sense.

I'll give you another thing that doesn't make sense.

Liara and Ashley's "out door" space mask isn't covering the whole head. Usually you will die if you don't cover your head out in space.

[CrutchCricket]

Yeah science started laxing around ME2... what are ya gonna do?

[CrutchCricket]

Huh. Didn't remember if the mentioned dextro food specifically in ME1.

[TheMarshal]

An excellent point! That provides a simple explanation for the fic I'm writing as to why the turians can drink "our beer" (a throwaway part of the story, but I didn't want to ignore it and I didn't want to devote that much time to it)

[Sialater]

TheMarshal wrote...

An excellent point! That provides a simple explanation for the fic I'm writing as to why the turians can drink "our beer" (a throwaway part of the story, but I didn't want to ignore it and I didn't want to devote that much time to it)

And why Garrus doesn't need special wine in the ME2 romance scene.

[tonyng9]

They have technology to travel at faster than the speed of light and to do genetic modification, but they haven't figured out how to construct basic amino acids...

[cynicalsaint1]

I've known this for awhile but its never really bothered me.
There's plenty of "doesn't really work like that" stuff in the lore.
Really its more important for it to be internally consistent than match reality IMO.

[BentOrgy]

So I could eat Turian nutrient paste? Shweet.

[Flidget]

cynicalsaint1 wrote...

I've known this for awhile but its never really bothered me.
There's plenty of "doesn't really work like that" stuff in the lore.
Really its more important for it to be internally consistent than match reality IMO.

Yeah, this was always my approach.

I mean, the entire game revolves around "Element Zero" which in our reality would be . . . Nothing?  Hydrogen's already just a single proton with optional nutrons, you can't really go lower.

[Jestina]

Hypothetical at best. Trying to apply real world science to something that doesn't exist...or at least something we haven't encountered yet.

[BadlyBrowned]

Watch Bioware retcon this little fact to go all "See!! See!!! No one starves to death on Earth!"

[aRandomNoob]

BadlyBrowned wrote...

Watch Bioware retcon this little fact to go all "See!! See!!! No one starves to death on Earth!"

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo....don't give them ideas!

[Jestina]

The Krogan won't starve...they'll just eat everyone else.

[Big I]

If you have Wrex in the endgame he'll mention he wants better provisions because "all that turian food gave him the runs."

[Aver88]

Oh come on stop nitpicking. What's next? Removing sounds from space battles because "there are no sounds in vacuum"?

[EnerPrime]

Aver88 wrote...

Oh come on stop nitpicking. What's next? Removing sounds from space battles because "there are no sounds in vacuum"?

Except that space flight sounds are explained in universe as 'aural simulators' or something like that. Cortez mentions them. Basicly, in the ME galaxy, every window or whatever where you can see space has little speakers that make spaceship noises so that people don't get creeped out by silent space ships.

The levo/dextro stuff is them trying to use real science to explain something and failing miserably.

[Aver88]

Well, even during cutscenes that are showed from outside of the ship you can hear sounds. Also explanation "so that people don't get creep out by silent space ships" is at least hilarious .

[Zamnil Blackaxe]

Rickets wrote...

Come on! It's just a game. Not everything has to make sense.

I'll give you another thing that doesn't make sense.

Liara and Ashley's "out door" space mask isn't covering the whole head. Usually you will die if you don't cover your head out in space.

If you're trying to make a hard sci-fi setting you better make sure most of what you're writing actually has some scientific standing. Quarian/Turian dextro-amino acids is where this falls flat and undermines the hard sci-fi angle the writers are aiming for.

Suspension of disbelief is important in sci-fi but there's a point where you just can't keep letting everything slide.

[Reorte]

How much of the essential amino acids do you need? Would supplements be sufficient or do they have to form a fairly significant part of your diet?

[Flidget]

Zamnil Blackaxe wrote...

Quarian/Turian dextro-amino acids is where this falls flat and undermines the hard sci-fi angle the writers are aiming for.

Suspension of disbelief is important in sci-fi but there's a point where you just can't keep letting everything slide.

Yeah but three games in is a bit late to decide we're going to stop suspending belief.

[lillitheris]

Interesting! I'd like some more clarification on two things, if possible:

EnerPrime wrote...

For starters, let's assume that since dextro species eat in a similar manner to us means that their digestive and metabolic processes are more or less the same kind that humans have. Human bodies have nine amino acids referred to as 'essential', because the body is incapapable of making them in it's own. All other amino acids neccesary for life are created in the body. Assuming dextro metabolisms operate the same way, all a dextro would need to live off levo food is dietary supplements containing their species' essential amino acids.

There's lots of assumptions there, but let's say it's correct and they can indeed sustain levoaminos: how much will they need per diem in dextros? Assume similar calorie intake as humans. How is it produced?

Secondly, assuming the mere presence of dextro acids in primarily levo species (and vice versa) would result in any negative consequences is wrong. You, all of you levo humans reading this, have dextro amino acids in you at this very moment. The human body predominantly uses levo amino acids, yes, but it also synthesises and uses it's own dextro amino acids to use for certain functions. Assuming eating food based on dextro acids would harm humans is erroneous. Assuming that the dextro acids are the only potential danger, then at worst your body would simply not take in any amino acid based nutrients while still making use of all the other  nutrients in the food.

I don't think that necessarily follows. The body also produces all kinds of substances that are probably best not injected from the outside (insulin, adrenaline, …)!

Or, in less dramatic terms, I'm not sure that it can be straightforwardly declared that the consumption of the wrong chirality wouldn't cause issues with absorption (possibly preventing also the absorption of the correct version) or even allergic reactions.

So, is chirality causing problems unlikely, possible, likely, or impossible?

Which brings me to my third point. Amino acids are not the be all end all of nutrition. Salt, carbohydrates, fatty acids and all other types of nutrients that aren't protein don't give a crap about amino acid chirality. Most types of nutrients don't have chiralities, and therfore should be universal.

True, but you couldn't survive without the intake of protein, could you? So this is only relevant if the protein issue is solved.

[dekkerd]

Rickets wrote...

Come on! It's just a game. Not everything has to make sense.

I'll give you another thing that doesn't make sense.

Liara and Ashley's "out door" space mask isn't covering the whole head. Usually you will die if you don't cover your head out in space.

That didn't break for me until they did it with ashley. Up until then, every character with a space mask was a biotic. I just assumed a low level biotic field took care of the rest.