265 réponses à ce sujet

[LMShepard]

Perhaps one day, someone will tweet Gamble asking a question about the Catalyst to which Gamble will reply:"Catalyst...what Catalyst?"

This is an obvious retcon since we all hear the Ventkid tell us that. O matter what we do...mass relays will be destroyed.

[Kanon777]

LMShepard wrote...

Perhaps one day, someone will tweet Gamble asking a question about the Catalyst to which Gamble will reply:"Catalyst...what Catalyst?"

This is an obvious retcon since we all hear the Ventkid tell us that. O matter what we do...mass relays will be destroyed.

Vent kid also say you will always die, but sheppard can survive an ending, so the idea that the starkid is lying about many things wont involve any "retcon"

[KeldorKatarn]

Bioware is grasping for straws here and doesn't have any clue how to fix this.

@Bioware: If you are telling us now "Relays can be rebuilt" or "Relays were not destroyed in some ending" and such crap, then what was that damn ending all about? If you retcon all the consequences away anyway, then why did you do this in the first place?

The human reaper never mattered but you did that crap. The death of Shepard never mattered, since we was immediately reborn, nobody ever really adressed it and that was it. (oh yeah so he could look like some kind of evil Jedi.. yeah) and now this. You kill Shepard, but maybe he's not really dead. You destroy the Relays but they can be rebuilt. You know what that is? Incredibly bad an pointless writing.

I am really disapointed in your writing staff. You continually manage to write incredibly good side stories and character quests yet always seem to completely mess up the main plot. What was that Collector stuff about again in ME2? Why do you create a plot in ME3 around uniting the galaxy and at the same time you build a Deux Ex machina that makes all that irrelevant anyway?

Do you have your experts sitting on the characters and the complete morons on the main plot? Every single time?

Dragon Age and Mass Effect were the last games which has a good main plot and Dragon Age's wasn't exactly very original an both of them still had plot holes. Since then you delivered DA2, ME2 and 3 wich all have ridiculously bad main plots. Which shows especially in the ending of ME3. Even if it had had a good ending, the entire Deus Ex Machina plot would still be retconning the scope of the Reaper threat and make pretty much all of ME1,2 and 3 pointless. That's bad writing and I think you don't even realize this.
Now you finally have a chance to at least bring this together in the last chapter to wrap it up into something good at least, but you still rather choose to retcon stuff away and by that making even more of the plot pointless and confusing.

I mean at this moment already I don't see why I should ever bother about anything concerning the main plot in this trilogy in a replay (which I have no desire for at this moment).
All the major decisions are totally pointless, Kaiden is a dick in ME3, so is Ashley, Udina ist a traitor even if I put Anderson on the counsil and what was the entire Collector base about again? You know that stupid base in the galactic core which was about as stupid a plot as Star Trek V's god planet in the center of the galaxy? Why would I care about ANY of these choices? I would only replay it maybe for the character stories, but since I see now how linear this all was right from the start, I'd end up playing exactly the same story over again anyway, so what's the point?

At least bring this to a good ending now. You messed up the trilogy's main plot completely anyway by now but at least make it end on a high note somehow and don't mess up even MORE and make even MORE choices irrelevant. By fixing all the Relays and resurrecting Sheppard YET AGAIN you make even the last choice irrelevant, which pretty much beats your entire franchises main theme "your choices matter" to a pulp.

Cut this ending, at least stick to the plot and throw the stupid star kid and forced suicide out the window. You know there are people out there who kind of have something against comitting suicide? Especially if it is pointless anyway?

Oh yeah, and how about making at least SOME choices matter? How about maybe SOMEONE commenting in the end if you chose Anderson that "Shepard was right" or if you didn't destroy the Collector base that Cerberus somehow rebuilds itself in the epilogue with a new TIM. You know, something that MAYBE show us that our decisions were not completely pointless and that the game at least acknowledges our decisions in some way? Otherwise we'll all feel totally silly in every single replay when it comes to choice.

I first felt bad about letting Ashley die because Kaiden was such a douche in ME3. That is until I learned that Ashley is just as much of a dick as he is. So what was the point of that again? At this point I'd let them both go to hell. After all they are the only morons in the galaxy that see me as a traitor and don't trust me, despite everbody else that ever was in my squad trusting me completely. I would have loved if one of them was a dick towards you and the other reacts differently, but both exactly the same? That is just stupid.
So at least make something out of that in the epilogue. Give us SOME consequences wich are different. So all the other games at least have SOME point to them.

Oh yeah.. would be nice if you gave Shepards death SOME reason. Maybe make it the reason he survives the ending or whatever (although I'd really prefer if you cut the entire suicide crap since I find that highly offensive. People generally hate the idea of commiting suicide and I frankly consider it incredibly disgusting and cowardly and totally not fitting with my Shepard's character.

Oh yeah and. GET RID OF THAT STUPID BRAT.. I mean really. A 6 year old hologram speaking total nonsense? THAT's what you are defending with artistic integrity? REALLY?

Modifié par KeldorKatarn, 10 avril 2012 - 10:12 .

[Rath111]

Kanon777 wrote...

RETAKER: Hey Bioware, the endings suck, we want new endings now!!! retcon the entire last part of the game!!!

BIOWARE: We wont retcon anything but we will give clarifications, like the relays arent destroyed in Control and the galaxy has many ways to remake the Relays or just survive well without them.

RETAKER:Whaaaa? I didnt get that from the ending, YOU GUYS ARE RETCONING EVERYTHING, you are all terrible writers!!!!

Wait... Are you by any chance fine with this "starchild" showing up and all the subsequent bull****?

Just want to get a confirmation on this.

Modifié par Rath111, 10 avril 2012 - 10:02 .

[Kanon777]

Rath111 wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

RETAKER: Hey Bioware, the endings suck, we want new endings now!!! retcon the entire last part of the game!!!

BIOWARE: We wont retcon anything but we will give clarifications, like the relays arent destroyed in Control and the galaxy has many ways to remake the Relays or just survive well without them.

RETAKER:Whaaaa? I didnt get that from the ending, YOU GUYS ARE RETCONING EVERYTHING, you are all terrible writers!!!!

Wait... Are you by any chance fine with this "starchild" showing up and all the subsequent bull****?

Just want to get a confirmation on this.

I want the starchild model to be replaced by the original race that made the reapers (adding a new voice o fcorse), i also want a big epilogue with all my decision and how they affected the galaxy. 

Everything else im fine with...(i dont understand the normandy crash, but i believe they will reunite the crew eventually)

BTW im tobitto113 if you dont know >.>

[Tovanus]

Kanon777 wrote...

RETAKER: Hey Bioware, the endings suck, we want new endings now!!! retcon the entire last part of the game!!!

BIOWARE: We wont retcon anything but we will give clarifications, like the relays arent destroyed in Control and the galaxy has many ways to remake the Relays or just survive well without them.

RETAKER:Whaaaa? I didnt get that from the ending, YOU GUYS ARE RETCONING EVERYTHING, you are all terrible writers!!!!

When it comes to the ending, they were terrible writers. The vast majority of "retaker" posts I've seen want a retcon. They just don't want Bioware to half-ass it.

Good Retcon: Remove the Starchild, re-do the Citadel sequence after Anderson's death. If they want to go further back than that, fine.

Bad Retcon: Keep the Starchild. Don't show any awareness of why people hated the incoherent nonsense of your ending. Act as if you aren't retconning anything and say that the relays are all still around.

That's not to say that "Bad Retcon" might not lead to some mitigation of how bad the ending is. But it strikes these people as hypocritical for Bioware to defend their stance based on the "artistic integrity prevents retcons" logic while at the same time retconning certain elements and  disregarding fan input. Not that the retake people believe Bioware would be showing artistic integrity by keeping what they have, but they're certainly right to point out that Bioware is hypocritical by its own lame standard if they engage in retcons while ignoring what needs retconning the most.

Modifié par Tovanus, 10 avril 2012 - 10:13 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Kanon777 wrote...

RETAKER: Hey Bioware, the endings suck, we want new endings now!!! retcon the entire last part of the game!!!

BIOWARE: We wont retcon anything but we will give clarifications, like the relays arent destroyed in Control and the galaxy has many ways to remake the Relays or just survive well without them.

RETAKER:Whaaaa? I didnt get that from the ending, YOU GUYS ARE RETCONING EVERYTHING, you are all terrible writers!!!!

Some are complaining sure but you'll always have that regardless....still many see this for what it is....real, clear hope that we will soon hear the simple magic phrase: "Indoctrination Theory is and always has been a fact"

At that point BioWare could simply say: "Yes, yes....you caught us, we are pure writing geniuses and just left the game as is because we thought everyone would get the obvious situation...still we are plesed to deliver the ending DLC that answers all your questions."

If that happenend the fans would literally have no choice but to stare in awe and admiration at how perfectly everything comes together.

[Esoretal]

You know... I don't know anymore.

[Tovanus]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

RETAKER: Hey Bioware, the endings suck, we want new endings now!!! retcon the entire last part of the game!!!

BIOWARE: We wont retcon anything but we will give clarifications, like the relays arent destroyed in Control and the galaxy has many ways to remake the Relays or just survive well without them.

RETAKER:Whaaaa? I didnt get that from the ending, YOU GUYS ARE RETCONING EVERYTHING, you are all terrible writers!!!!

Some are complaining sure but you'll always have that regardless....still many see this for what it is....real, clear hope that we will soon hear the simple magic phrase: "Indoctrination Theory is and always has been a fact"

At that point BioWare could simply say: "Yes, yes....you caught us, we are pure writing geniuses and just left the game as is because we thought everyone would get the obvious situation...still we are plesed to deliver the ending DLC that answers all your questions."

If that happenend the fans would literally have no choice but to stare in awe and admiration at how perfectly everything comes together.

Though I don't believe IT would be adopted by Bioware, I think if it was the fans would be staring in awe and admiration at the guy who made those  youtube videos that provided Bioware an incredible escape hatch from their terrible plothole ridden writing.

[plardman]

I just want too know the fate of Space Hamster and if anyone has remembered to feed it. Or if its a cyborg hamster, how the endings affected it. Also was the hamster modeled off of a real hamster?

[zakaryzb]

Tovanus wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

RETAKER: Hey Bioware, the endings suck, we want new endings now!!! retcon the entire last part of the game!!!

BIOWARE: We wont retcon anything but we will give clarifications, like the relays arent destroyed in Control and the galaxy has many ways to remake the Relays or just survive well without them.

RETAKER:Whaaaa? I didnt get that from the ending, YOU GUYS ARE RETCONING EVERYTHING, you are all terrible writers!!!!

When it comes to the ending, they were terrible writers. The vast majority of "retaker" posts I've seen want a retcon. They just don't want Bioware to half-ass it.

Good Retcon: Remove the Starchild, re-do the Citadel sequence after Anderson's death. If they want to go further back than that, fine.

Bad Retcon: Keep the Starchild. Don't show any awareness of why people hated the incoherent nonsense of your ending. Act as if you aren't retconning anything and say that the relays are all still around.

That's not to say that "Bad Retcon" might not lead to some mitigation of how bad the ending is. But it strikes these people as hypocritical for Bioware to defend their stance based on the "artistic integrity prevents retcons" logic while at the same time retconning certain elements and  disregarding fan input. Not that the retake people believe Bioware would be showing artistic integrity by keeping what they have, but they're certainly right to point out that Bioware is hypocritical by its own lame standard if they engage in retcons while ignoring what needs retconning the most.

To be fair, Bioware said they weren't retconning StarChild, they could alter some other things.  Also, the argument is that in the ending cinematic (while done poorly) the relay didn't get blown which is why you don't see it desintegrate like you do in the other endings.

[Kanon777]

Tovanus wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

RETAKER: Hey Bioware, the endings suck, we want new endings now!!! retcon the entire last part of the game!!!

BIOWARE: We wont retcon anything but we will give clarifications, like the relays arent destroyed in Control and the galaxy has many ways to remake the Relays or just survive well without them.

RETAKER:Whaaaa? I didnt get that from the ending, YOU GUYS ARE RETCONING EVERYTHING, you are all terrible writers!!!!

When it comes to the ending, they were terrible writers. The vast majority of "retaker" posts I've seen want a retcon. They just don't want Bioware to half-ass it.

Good Retcon: Remove the Starchild, re-do the Citadel sequence after Anderson's death. If they want to go further back than that, fine.

Bad Retcon: Keep the Starchild. Don't show any awareness of why people hated the incoherent nonsense of your ending. Act as if you aren't retconning anything and say that the relays are all still around.

That's not to say that "Bad Retcon" might not lead to some mitigation of how bad the ending is. But it strikes these people as hypocritical for Bioware to defend their stance based on the "artistic integrity prevents retcons" logic while at the same time retconning certain elements and  disregarding fan input. Not that the retake people believe Bioware would be showing artistic integrity by keeping what they have, but they're certainly right to point out that Bioware is hypocritical by its own lame standard if they engage in retcons while ignoring what needs retconning the most.

How are they disergarding fan imput?

When people asked Walters if the people in the citadel were dead, he confirmed it and everybody went angry on how everything they did was pointless and etc. Then we got PAX and Weekes, who changed that idea and gave a real retcon that all important plot people were alive. This is an example where they removed an idea based on costumer imput, while maintaining that they are just "clarifying" things...

Its better for you if Bioware stays hypocritical and do a stealth-retcon to the endings, while admiting everything they did was right, than staying by their word and not retcon "clarify" anything...

Modifié par Kanon777, 10 avril 2012 - 10:27 .

[Manton-X2]

Asharad Hett wrote...

I took a screenshot of the worst part of the explosion, and it's just a few parts flying off. The rings never fly apart. The superstructure remains intact. Forget youtube, watch the full res version with the BINK player.

I'll give you that.  They cut out the additional, what, 3 seconds where it goes ka-blooie so you can say there's parts flying off. I will agree with that interpretation.

Now, do me a favor, pull back and think about that photo.  Or more precisely, think about the scale.  The tiniest pieces falling off have got to be larger than the Normandy itself.  Normandy sized chunks full of tech and circuitry that you have no idea what it is, what it does, how it works or what its made of.  But you're going to put it all back together.

I also don't know how you're going to repair a relay when from day one it has been said that they are made of a completely unknown metal.  A metal so resilient that one took the blast from a supernova and was fine.  So I'm not actually sure how you repair/replace that.

[Kanon777]

Manton-X2 wrote...

Asharad Hett wrote...

I took a screenshot of the worst part of the explosion, and it's just a few parts flying off. The rings never fly apart. The superstructure remains intact. Forget youtube, watch the full res version with the BINK player.

I'll give you that.  They cut out the additional, what, 3 seconds where it goes ka-blooie so you can say there's parts flying off. I will agree with that interpretation.

Now, do me a favor, pull back and think about that photo.  Or more precisely, think about the scale.  The tiniest pieces falling off have got to be larger than the Normandy itself.  Normandy sized chunks full of tech and circuitry that you have no idea what it is, what it does, how it works or what its made of.  But you're going to put it all back together.

I also don't know how you're going to repair a relay when from day one it has been said that they are made of a completely unknown metal.  A metal so resilient that one took the blast from a supernova and was fine.  So I'm not actually sure how you repair/replace that.

Dont forget that the reapers are alive in this ending, im pretty sure Shep can make them repair their own creations...

Modifié par Kanon777, 10 avril 2012 - 10:35 .

[DubVee12]

I always thought this was kinda obvious when I saw it. I know ghost boy says the mass relays will be destroyed by the crucible. But the citadel, an enormous mass relay itself mind you, survived and the cutscenes were different, if only slightly, than those for destroy and synthesis. It seemed to me Bioware did this to imply that the relays survived. I admit it was a little sloppy, but I couldn't think of any other reason for the cutscenes in that ending to be different.

[plardman]

Kanon777 wrote...

Manton-X2 wrote...

Asharad Hett wrote...

I took a screenshot of the worst part of the explosion, and it's just a few parts flying off. The rings never fly apart. The superstructure remains intact. Forget youtube, watch the full res version with the BINK player.

I'll give you that.  They cut out the additional, what, 3 seconds where it goes ka-blooie so you can say there's parts flying off. I will agree with that interpretation.

Now, do me a favor, pull back and think about that photo.  Or more precisely, think about the scale.  The tiniest pieces falling off have got to be larger than the Normandy itself.  Normandy sized chunks full of tech and circuitry that you have no idea what it is, what it does, how it works or what its made of.  But you're going to put it all back together.

I also don't know how you're going to repair a relay when from day one it has been said that they are made of a completely unknown metal.  A metal so resilient that one took the blast from a supernova and was fine.  So I'm not actually sure how you repair/replace that.

Dont forget that the reapers are alive in this ending, im pretty sure Shep can make them repair their own creations...

Did you just change clothes?

[The Night Mammoth]

Kanon777 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

iorveth1271 wrote...

So... they're retconning their own plot all over twitter now?

Interesting...

Stupid as ****. 

There is no retconing here, this was pretty obvious to anyone who paid attention instead of ****ing non-stop for 5 weeks.

Sure, whatever genius. 

Besides, isnt that what the retakers want? A retcon of the endings? You whine when Bioware say they will keep everything the same and you whine again when they change something people didnt like about the endings... You guys are wierd...

Providing another ambiguous statment meant to clarify something that was pretty obvious - the destruction of the Relays - over twitter, isn't exactly a retcon. I see people being confused rather than the bs you just made up. 

[Manton-X2]

Kanon777 wrote...
Dont forget that the reapers are alive in this ending, im pretty sure Shep can make them repair their own creations...

If I go by what is said and what I see in the game then I have to say that I'm not convinced that the Reapers created anything.  I was before Glowrod showed up, but not after his crappy explanations.  It's not like he would have had thousands of Reapers to go build the networks ... they would have started with only a few in the 1st cycle. Yea, you could speculate that they have all the knowledge stored in their heads ... but I'm not playing their speculation game.  

As for Shep, again, from what Glowboy says it doesn't sound like some conscious control of the Reapers.  He's dead.  Unless now they're adding soul or consciousness transfer to their space magic of teleporter beams and machine DNA I dunno how else you'd do it.

And now, this stupid ending makes me look back and realize something.  Just how did the first Reaping occur?  There were no Reapers to do it, but whatever did it had to basically take an entire planet worth of people and turn them into a Reaper.  Now I see why the original writer was contemplating the Dark Energy ending.  It makes more sense to say an entire race(s) sacrificed themselves to become the first Reaper(s).

[psrz]

Good.

Now StarBrat along with its nonsensical asspulls must go....

[Mystiq6]

Here's a question: the Catalyst wasn't telling the truth about Shepard dying in the Destroy ending, the relays blowing up in Control; what about Synthesis?

[ShepardTheHopeful]

I'm confused they spent all this time saying "OH we won't change the ending screw you artistic integrity foreva!" now they're saying they're redoing parts that make no sense? No matter what ending you pick you obviously see the Mass Relays blow up it's the only definitive explosion you actually see in the ending!

::Sighs:: ya know what I don't even care anymore I'll wait and see what happens in the summer with extend.

[ShepardTheHopeful]

Mystiq6 wrote...

Here's a question: the Catalyst wasn't telling the truth about Shepard dying in the Destroy ending, the relays blowing up in Control; what about Synthesis?

Technically and it's lame he never says for sure you'll die he only says "even you are partially synthetic" The idea was probably have the assets affect if he lives or dies because the crucible space magic machine can distinguish between him and his syntehtics. And since he can't survive without his synthetics they probably used space magic to bring Shepard into a time stasis or status that would revert him to before he died and needed the syntehtics. 

but who knows. 

[The Angry One]

Kanon777 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

They literally just cut out the explosion and hoped we'd take that as the relay not being destroyed even though the previous scene rips it apart.
They couldn't even come up with a different 5 second clip to show the relay intact. Artistic vision? Sure.

Some people were clever enough to understand the diference and its implications, but i guess you werent one of them...

Yes, the only way you can justify this lazy scene is with a veiled insult.
Says it all.

[The Angry One]

Kanon777 wrote...

RETAKER: Hey Bioware, the endings suck, we want new endings now!!! retcon the entire last part of the game!!!

BIOWARE: We wont retcon anything but we will give clarifications, like the relays arent destroyed in Control and the galaxy has many ways to remake the Relays or just survive well without them.

RETAKER:Whaaaa? I didnt get that from the ending, YOU GUYS ARE RETCONING EVERYTHING, you are all terrible writers!!!!

So basically you think it's alright for BioWare to retcon things while claiming they aren't.
You're amusing.

[jumpingkaede]

Kanon777 wrote...

Some people were clever enough to understand the diference and its implications, but i guess you werent one of them...

When you see something start to blow up the implication is that it blew up.  Even if the screen cuts to black.

And not, "Well, there were a whole bunch of tiny explosions all over the Mass Relay and it looked pretty precarious but since I didn't see it blow up I'm going to assume it was perfectly fine afterward".

Maybe you see things that way.

The Angry One wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

RETAKER: Hey Bioware, the endings suck, we want new endings now!!! retcon the entire last part of the game!!!

BIOWARE:
We wont retcon anything but we will give clarifications, like the
relays arent destroyed in Control and the galaxy has many ways to remake
the Relays or just survive well without them.

RETAKER:Whaaaa? I didnt get that from the ending, YOU GUYS ARE RETCONING EVERYTHING, you are all terrible writers!!!!

So basically you think it's alright for BioWare to retcon things while claiming they aren't.
You're amusing.

Personally,  I have no problem with Bioware retconning their ending. 

If it means they stop hiding behind their "artistic integrity" and "artistic vision" argument.  And once that argument falls by the wayside, there's nothing stopping them from doing the ending right.

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 10 avril 2012 - 11:05 .