265 réponses à ce sujet

[Lookout1390]

No.

They all ****ing exploded in each ending.

quit believing this twitter crap.

[Jamie9]

To be honest, I knew this was what they intended - I mean they cut the Control ending's Relay destruction by about 60 frames (a complete guess) so they meant it to be different from the other 2 endings.

Looks like control is the best ending, unless you want to live =P

[The Angry One]

jumpingkaede wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

Some people were clever enough to understand the diference and its implications, but i guess you werent one of them...

When you see something start to blow up the implication is that it blew up.  Even if the screen cuts to black.

And not, "Well, there were a whole bunch of tiny explosions all over the Mass Relay and it looked pretty precarious but since I didn't see it blow up I'm going to assume it was perfectly fine afterward".

Maybe you see things that way.

Nah obviously this person is smarter because he speculates more.
Don't you know that making up your own ending is a sign of intelligence? I'm surprised these people bought the game at all, surely they could use their deep intellect to make up their own game in their heads.

[The Angry One]

jumpingkaede wrote...

If it means they stop hiding behind their "artistic integrity" and "artistic vision" argument.  And once that argument falls by the wayside, there's nothing stopping them from doing the ending right.

Exactly.
But BioWare are going "we stand by our artistic integrity! we won't change anything!". So what are we supposed to think?
Either they're not changing anything or they are.

[KeldorKatarn]

Retconing this is even worse than keeping it. Because that way you keep crappy endings AND make those endings even more pointless. How is that a good decision? That's insanely bad writing ... yet again

[Jamie9]

Jamie9 wrote...

To be honest, I knew this was what they intended - I mean they cut the Control ending's Relay destruction by about 60 frames (a complete guess) so they meant it to be different from the other 2 endings.

Looks like control is the best ending, unless you want to live =P

To clarify (I can't edit on here) because I look a bit big-headed here.

I meant that I thought this was what they intended but they completely failed at properly showing it. Speculations and all that...

[Kanon777]

plardman wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

Manton-X2 wrote...

Asharad Hett wrote...

I took a screenshot of the worst part of the explosion, and it's just a few parts flying off. The rings never fly apart. The superstructure remains intact. Forget youtube, watch the full res version with the BINK player.

I'll give you that.  They cut out the additional, what, 3 seconds where it goes ka-blooie so you can say there's parts flying off. I will agree with that interpretation.

Now, do me a favor, pull back and think about that photo.  Or more precisely, think about the scale.  The tiniest pieces falling off have got to be larger than the Normandy itself.  Normandy sized chunks full of tech and circuitry that you have no idea what it is, what it does, how it works or what its made of.  But you're going to put it all back together.

I also don't know how you're going to repair a relay when from day one it has been said that they are made of a completely unknown metal.  A metal so resilient that one took the blast from a supernova and was fine.  So I'm not actually sure how you repair/replace that.

Dont forget that the reapers are alive in this ending, im pretty sure Shep can make them repair their own creations...

Did you just change clothes?

Yes, im tobitto113, im not hiding anything

[Shaigunjoe]

I don't have a problem with retconning stuff, but do it a better place than twitter.

[DubVee12]

Jamie9 wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

To be honest, I knew this was what they intended - I mean they cut the Control ending's Relay destruction by about 60 frames (a complete guess) so they meant it to be different from the other 2 endings.

Looks like control is the best ending, unless you want to live =P

To clarify (I can't edit on here) because I look a bit big-headed here.

I meant that I thought this was what they intended but they completely failed at properly showing it. Speculations and all that...

Yeah, that's basically how I saw it as well. Couldn't think of any other reason for the cutscene change.

[Kanon777]

The Angry One wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

RETAKER: Hey Bioware, the endings suck, we want new endings now!!! retcon the entire last part of the game!!!

BIOWARE: We wont retcon anything but we will give clarifications, like the relays arent destroyed in Control and the galaxy has many ways to remake the Relays or just survive well without them.

RETAKER:Whaaaa? I didnt get that from the ending, YOU GUYS ARE RETCONING EVERYTHING, you are all terrible writers!!!!

So basically you think it's alright for BioWare to retcon things while claiming they aren't.
You're amusing.

Its better than not retconing anything right? This is what you guys want!! I dont understand how you can be angry at them for doing this...

[The Angry One]

Kanon777 wrote...

Yes, im tobitto113, im not hiding anything

Well that explains the familiar trolling.
I must say you're doing a bang up job of ignoring me, sparky.

[The Angry One]

Kanon777 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

RETAKER: Hey Bioware, the endings suck, we want new endings now!!! retcon the entire last part of the game!!!

BIOWARE: We wont retcon anything but we will give clarifications, like the relays arent destroyed in Control and the galaxy has many ways to remake the Relays or just survive well without them.

RETAKER:Whaaaa? I didnt get that from the ending, YOU GUYS ARE RETCONING EVERYTHING, you are all terrible writers!!!!

So basically you think it's alright for BioWare to retcon things while claiming they aren't.
You're amusing.

Its better than not retconing anything right? This is what you guys want!! I dont understand how you can be angry at them for doing this...

Making silly, contradictory "clarifications" on twitter is a) not a retcon, silly, c) not what we wanted and d) dishonest.

[Kanon777]

The Angry One wrote...

jumpingkaede wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

Some people were clever enough to understand the diference and its implications, but i guess you werent one of them...

When you see something start to blow up the implication is that it blew up.  Even if the screen cuts to black.

And not, "Well, there were a whole bunch of tiny explosions all over the Mass Relay and it looked pretty precarious but since I didn't see it blow up I'm going to assume it was perfectly fine afterward".

Maybe you see things that way.

Nah obviously this person is smarter because he speculates more.
Don't you know that making up your own ending is a sign of intelligence? I'm surprised these people bought the game at all, surely they could use their deep intellect to make up their own game in their heads.

No, the fact tht they have reason to make a slightly diferent scene is enough evidence that its there is an important thing going on. Weekes/Walters said they wanted people to compare the endings and notice the subtle diferences to have a better understanding of what they mean.

Plenty of people here understood their meaning, not just me. And many of those are on your side when it comes to liking/disliking the end.

[FS3D]

The way I see it, anything said on twitter that contradicts what we saw in-game is not canon. If a dev says on Twitter that the relays are merely disabled, they're wrong until they put it in-game via DLC. Until then, it didn't happen.

When I play games, I expect story elements to be IN THE GAME ITSELF.

That's why, as far as I'm concerned, Emily Wong isn't dead... Just missing from the game.

[Kanon777]

The Angry One wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

RETAKER: Hey Bioware, the endings suck, we want new endings now!!! retcon the entire last part of the game!!!

BIOWARE: We wont retcon anything but we will give clarifications, like the relays arent destroyed in Control and the galaxy has many ways to remake the Relays or just survive well without them.

RETAKER:Whaaaa? I didnt get that from the ending, YOU GUYS ARE RETCONING EVERYTHING, you are all terrible writers!!!!

So basically you think it's alright for BioWare to retcon things while claiming they aren't.
You're amusing.

Its better than not retconing anything right? This is what you guys want!! I dont understand how you can be angry at them for doing this...

Making silly, contradictory "clarifications" on twitter is a) not a retcon, silly, c) not what we wanted and d) dishonest.

E) Improving the story based on player imput.

You guys make a drama over the dead people on the citadel, then they change that, then you criticise them for changing the story, then you keep demanding they change the story O_o

[The Angry One]

Kanon777 wrote...

No, the fact tht they have reason to make a slightly diferent scene is enough evidence that its there is an important thing going on. Weekes/Walters said they wanted people to compare the endings and notice the subtle diferences to have a better understanding of what they mean.

Plenty of people here understood their meaning, not just me. And many of those are on your side when it comes to liking/disliking the end.

Understanding the meaning and pointing out that it was sloppily done are not mutually exclusive.
I get what they were trying to do. I am saying, they failed at it. It looks stupid. The relay is shattered in all 3 ending variations, they were just lazy and omitted the explosion.

[Kanon777]

The Angry One wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

No, the fact tht they have reason to make a slightly diferent scene is enough evidence that its there is an important thing going on. Weekes/Walters said they wanted people to compare the endings and notice the subtle diferences to have a better understanding of what they mean.

Plenty of people here understood their meaning, not just me. And many of those are on your side when it comes to liking/disliking the end.

Understanding the meaning and pointing out that it was sloppily done are not mutually exclusive.
I get what they were trying to do. I am saying, they failed at it. It looks stupid. The relay is shattered in all 3 ending variations, they were just lazy and omitted the explosion.

Well, get ready for the retcon "clarification" dlc then, im sure they will make that scene more obvious than before...

[Darth_Trethon]

The Angry One wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

No, the fact tht they have reason to make a slightly diferent scene is enough evidence that its there is an important thing going on. Weekes/Walters said they wanted people to compare the endings and notice the subtle diferences to have a better understanding of what they mean.

Plenty of people here understood their meaning, not just me. And many of those are on your side when it comes to liking/disliking the end.

Understanding the meaning and pointing out that it was sloppily done are not mutually exclusive.
I get what they were trying to do. I am saying, they failed at it. It looks stupid. The relay is shattered in all 3 ending variations, they were just lazy and omitted the explosion.

This is exactly why some(myself included) think that they are narrowing in on a confirmation of a dream/indoctrination scenario for the DLC.....they know what there is, they know what they must do and they know what their options for making it happen are.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 10 avril 2012 - 11:28 .

[Kanon777]

Oh sweet Jehova, were gonna have to deal with indoc theorist until summer arent we. Just give up already, IDT is not real.

[Bfler]

Why do they explode in synthesis? Destroy is the only option where the Reapers are eliminated. Shouldn't the relays become half organic in synthesis?

[Tovanus]

Kanon777 wrote...

Tovanus wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

RETAKER: Hey Bioware, the endings suck, we want new endings now!!! retcon the entire last part of the game!!!

BIOWARE: We wont retcon anything but we will give clarifications, like the relays arent destroyed in Control and the galaxy has many ways to remake the Relays or just survive well without them.

RETAKER:Whaaaa? I didnt get that from the ending, YOU GUYS ARE RETCONING EVERYTHING, you are all terrible writers!!!!

When it comes to the ending, they were terrible writers. The vast majority of "retaker" posts I've seen want a retcon. They just don't want Bioware to half-ass it.

Good Retcon: Remove the Starchild, re-do the Citadel sequence after Anderson's death. If they want to go further back than that, fine.

Bad Retcon: Keep the Starchild. Don't show any awareness of why people hated the incoherent nonsense of your ending. Act as if you aren't retconning anything and say that the relays are all still around.

That's not to say that "Bad Retcon" might not lead to some mitigation of how bad the ending is. But it strikes these people as hypocritical for Bioware to defend their stance based on the "artistic integrity prevents retcons" logic while at the same time retconning certain elements and  disregarding fan input. Not that the retake people believe Bioware would be showing artistic integrity by keeping what they have, but they're certainly right to point out that Bioware is hypocritical by its own lame standard if they engage in retcons while ignoring what needs retconning the most.

How are they disergarding fan imput?

When people asked Walters if the people in the citadel were dead, he confirmed it and everybody went angry on how everything they did was pointless and etc. Then we got PAX and Weekes, who changed that idea and gave a real retcon that all important plot people were alive. This is an example where they removed an idea based on costumer imput, while maintaining that they are just "clarifying" things...

Its better for you if Bioware stays hypocritical and do a stealth-retcon to the endings, while admiting everything they did was right, than staying by their word and not retcon "clarify" anything...

I said that even a bad retcon can mitigate how bad the ending is. I didn't say it was better for Bioware to do nothing at all rather than be hypocrictal.  But I do think it's fair for fans to point out that Bioware is being inconsistent if Bioware acts inconsistent.

And Bioware is disregarding feedback. At best they're tinkering at the margins of the things people have a problem with (even then, it's only been things that wouldn't have a firm answer in the game itself anyway - thus people getting news from twitter "clarifying" things). But the central problem? The entire sequence after you're raised on the platform to the Starchild?  It's like an elephant in the room. The guys in charge just don't want to deal with the elephant. If they won't deal with that elephant, it seems to me that they're disregarding feedback.

I'm fine with a retcon. I don't see how the ending could be made worse by one, I think "better" is the only direction any change can go, even "clarifying" changes. But "better" won't mean good, and the fans really want something good.

Modifié par Tovanus, 10 avril 2012 - 11:37 .

[The Angry One]

Kanon777 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

No, the fact tht they have reason to make a slightly diferent scene is enough evidence that its there is an important thing going on. Weekes/Walters said they wanted people to compare the endings and notice the subtle diferences to have a better understanding of what they mean.

Plenty of people here understood their meaning, not just me. And many of those are on your side when it comes to liking/disliking the end.

Understanding the meaning and pointing out that it was sloppily done are not mutually exclusive.
I get what they were trying to do. I am saying, they failed at it. It looks stupid. The relay is shattered in all 3 ending variations, they were just lazy and omitted the explosion.

Well, get ready for the retcon "clarification" dlc then, im sure they will make that scene more obvious than before...

At this point it seems you aren't even aware of who you're criticising.
BioWare are the ones insisting on calling it clarification, not us.

Also, the point is not obviousness. It's quality. They used the same scene that was intended to show a relay's total destruction, cut it in half and called it a seperate ending.

[Tyrzun]

Star Child clearly states that they WILL be destroyed.  NOT disabled.

[The Angry One]

Bfler wrote...

Why do they explode in synthesis? Destroy is the only option where the Reapers are eliminated. Shouldn't the relays become half organic in synthesis?

Maybe something like this happened to it.

[Deltateam Elcor]

I want to remind people that ONLY the SOL relay was shown to be destroyed.

Do not assume that others were, its a simple a retcon.