78 réponses à ce sujet

[berelinde]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

berelinde wrote...

Or, for habitual users of the Mirror of Transformation or whatever the DA3 version will be (that thing was awesome): Have non-joinable characters you interact with regularly, e.g. Seneschal Bran in DA2, remark "You look different. Is it your hair?"

They should make it so that if you change your appearance enough times, eventually you change sexes and NOBODY NOTICES.

Cmon, wouldn't that be the greatest easter egg ever?

Hmm, maybe it's time they brought back the Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity...

But yeah, that would be a really amusing easter egg.

[Mmw04014]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

SavesTheDay wrote...

I would prefer if no one really commented on your characters appearance. It might get old really quickly and then to avoid it, you'd have make a certain type of character and maybe it won't be quite what you wanted.

This would be called "realism".  Except in RL you can't make another character if you're stuck with one most people think is fugly.

I'm not saying it's the best option evarr omg DO IT!, I'm saying it has potential to be interesting.  If they left things out of games because it might get old and somebody won't get what they want, they'd have to leave out THE ENTIRE GAME.

And even then, they'd be disappointing the people who WANTED A GAME.

What if you made a really pretty character yet everyone walked around saying how ugly you are. That's almost as bad as people calling you beautiful when you purposefully make your character as unappealing as possible. I don't know how they could accomadate for both ugly and pretty characters walking around. Best to keep it neutral, unless they could implement a toggle or something, but that seems like a waste of resources to me.

[PsychoBlonde]

Mmw04014 wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

SavesTheDay wrote...

I would prefer if no one really commented on your characters appearance. It might get old really quickly and then to avoid it, you'd have make a certain type of character and maybe it won't be quite what you wanted.

This would be called "realism".  Except in RL you can't make another character if you're stuck with one most people think is fugly.

I'm not saying it's the best option evarr omg DO IT!, I'm saying it has potential to be interesting.  If they left things out of games because it might get old and somebody won't get what they want, they'd have to leave out THE ENTIRE GAME.

And even then, they'd be disappointing the people who WANTED A GAME.

What if you made a really pretty character yet everyone walked around saying how ugly you are. That's almost as bad as people calling you beautiful when you purposefully make your character as unappealing as possible. I don't know how they could accomadate for both ugly and pretty characters walking around. Best to keep it neutral, unless they could implement a toggle or something, but that seems like a waste of resources to me.

You're missing the point here.

In real life, everybody has different standards of what is and is not beautiful.  So it's quite possible (even common!) for people to be "pretty" and walk around and get comments about the fact that you are a.) too bony, b.) too short, c.) too tall, d.) too tan, or, if the commentor is an idiot, just plain ugly!  (My housemate, in particular, has a horrible habit of calling stunningly beautiful women on TV or in movies "ugly", what he means is "I don't want to bone her.").  I'm hugely fat and people still regularly tell me that I'm cute.  Are they crazy?  Or am I?

What YOU think about your character's appearance does not necessarily signify, but how the people in the game TREAT your character (or other characters) can signify a LOT.  And anything of this nature that adds nuances may be interesting to explore in various different ways.  Or at least consider before they throw it out for being a colossal pain in the ass to implement.

Modifié par PsychoBlonde, 10 avril 2012 - 10:22 .

[Mmw04014]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Mmw04014 wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

SavesTheDay wrote...

I would prefer if no one really commented on your characters appearance. It might get old really quickly and then to avoid it, you'd have make a certain type of character and maybe it won't be quite what you wanted.

This would be called "realism".  Except in RL you can't make another character if you're stuck with one most people think is fugly.

I'm not saying it's the best option evarr omg DO IT!, I'm saying it has potential to be interesting.  If they left things out of games because it might get old and somebody won't get what they want, they'd have to leave out THE ENTIRE GAME.

And even then, they'd be disappointing the people who WANTED A GAME.

What if you made a really pretty character yet everyone walked around saying how ugly you are. That's almost as bad as people calling you beautiful when you purposefully make your character as unappealing as possible. I don't know how they could accomadate for both ugly and pretty characters walking around. Best to keep it neutral, unless they could implement a toggle or something, but that seems like a waste of resources to me.

You're missing the point here.

In real life, everybody has different standards of what is and is not beautiful.  So it's quite possible (even common!) for people to be "pretty" and walk around and get comments about the fact that you are a.) too bony, b.) too short, c.) too tall, d.) too tan, or, if the commentor is an idiot, just plain ugly!  (My housemate, in particular, has a horrible habit of calling stunningly beautiful women on TV or in movies "ugly", what he means is "I don't want to bone her.").  I'm hugely fat and people still regularly tell me that I'm cute.  Are they crazy?  Or am I?

What YOU think about your character's appearance does not necessarily signify, but how the people in the game TREAT your character (or other characters) can signify a LOT.  And anything of this nature that adds nuances may be interesting to explore in various different ways.

No, I understand that. I guess what I'm not getting is, do you mean that no matter how you make your character, a certain NPC will always regard you as ugly, etc. Like if a NPC commented that your hair was ugly, will it always be ugly regardless of what it looks like? If so, that means any comment they make about appearance would have to be general. It would always have to be "I don't like your hair," rather than "I don't like your brown hair." It means that these NPC's won't really have set preferances on what they like/dislike. They just will just always dislike a players appearance for no good reason.

[CuriousArtemis]

Maybe there could be an attractiveness slide; toggling the slide wouldn't affect your character's appearance (that's what the character creator thing is for) but how companions and NPCs respond to the PC.

My Warden was always a cute elf boy, and my Hawke was a handsome devil of a rogue. I can't help it; I like making cute boys xD

P.S. Don't know if this has been mentioned, but when you flirt with Fenris, he will say something like, "You're a handsome man, Hawke.  Has no one else caught your eye?"  (Meaning Fenris is surprised Hawke finds him attractive... Hawke is too good-looking for someone like Fenris.)

Modifié par motomotogirl, 10 avril 2012 - 10:30 .

[PsychoBlonde]

Mmw04014 wrote...

No, I understand that. I guess what I'm not getting is, do you mean that no matter how you make your character, a certain NPC will always regard you as ugly, etc. Like if a NPC commented that your hair was ugly, will it always be ugly regardless of what it looks like? If so, that means any comment they make about appearance would have to be general. It would always have to be "I don't like your hair," rather than "I don't like your brown hair." It means that these NPC's won't really have set preferances on what they like/dislike. They just will just always dislike a players appearance for no good reason.

We already have NPC's who like your character's appearance for no good reason (even if you look like Gollum), and also ones who change sexuality.

Almost all traits ascribed to the PC will, by necessity, be informed traits--that means they are created by the writer and just assigned to the PC.  You can have some non-informed traits (and I'd like to see more of this as well!) such as, if the PC regularly spares people, NPC's refer to the PC generally as "merciful" or "softhearted".  But how many times does the PC get called things like "skilled"--traits that you have absolutely no ability to demonstrate.  Creating these kinds of informed traits is not necessarily bad.  (It's not necessarily good, either, it would definitely get weird if they started creating a laundry list of epithets for you.)  It could lead to some interesting character interactions if they took an atypical route intentionally.

Also: NESTED QUOTES OF DOOM.

[PsychoBlonde]

motomotogirl wrote...

Maybe there could be an attractiveness slide; toggling the slide wouldn't affect your character's appearance (that's what the character creator thing is for) but how companions and NPCs respond to the PC.

My Warden was always a cute elf boy, and my Hawke was a handsome devil of a rogue. I can't help it; I like making cute boys xD

P.S. Don't know if this has been mentioned, but when you flirt with Fenris, he will say something like, "You're a handsome man, Hawke.  Has no one else caught your eye?"  (Meaning Fenris is surprised Hawke finds him attractive... Hawke is too good-looking for someone like Fenris.)

And the dreaded toggle makes its presence known!

I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea--I'd love to be able to pick your base personality from the get go and have conversation options that ALL reflect your persona.  But the implementation difficulties/expenses soon spiral out of control.

Fenris lacking self-assurance there was pretty good characterization, though, and, yes, it did use an informed trait.

Modifié par PsychoBlonde, 10 avril 2012 - 10:37 .

[Mmw04014]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

We already have NPC's who like your character's appearance for no good reason (even if you look like Gollum), and also ones who change sexuality.

Almost all traits ascribed to the PC will, by necessity, be informed traits--that means they are created by the writer and just assigned to the PC.  You can have some non-informed traits (and I'd like to see more of this as well!) such as, if the PC regularly spares people, NPC's refer to the PC generally as "merciful" or "softhearted".  But how many times does the PC get called things like "skilled"--traits that you have absolutely no ability to demonstrate.  Creating these kinds of informed traits is not necessarily bad.  (It's not necessarily good, either, it would definitely get weird if they started creating a laundry list of epithets for you.)  It could lead to some interesting character interactions if they took an atypical route intentionally.

Also: NESTED QUOTES OF DOOM.

And that's exactly a problem I have with NPC's in this game. They are too dependant on the PC. They don't become their own characters with their own preferences. If there was a way to make an NPC dislike you appearance it would have to be very specific to how you set that PC up otherwise it just feel disingenuous. It would have to be connected in some way to a choice you made in the character creator. Such as picking the far right option for complextion and you end up looking wrinkly and have more discolored skin. I have no problem with people reacting to that, but if you picked the far left option and had youthful skin, they should act accordingly to that as well.

As for the rest, I agree with you to an extent. Some traits are good that they are applied to every PC and some are bad. Being "skilled" as you mentioned is good, because to be the PC you have to be good at fighting otherwise the game would cease to make sense. Being ugly or pretty isn't a good trait to assign because the PC could be either of those and the game could still be played. Maybe they could apply something like they did in Skyrim. If you have a high destruction magic level, people will tell you not to burn down any houses. Those were ambiant comments and not really dialogue, but I still think it was a cool concept.

Although, if for the next game they plan on defaulting the PC appearance to pretty anyway, they might as well be different and make it ugly rather than pretty. For varieties sake.

[CuriousArtemis]

Mmw04014 wrote...

Although, if for the next game they plan on defaulting the PC appearance to pretty anyway, they might as well be different and make it ugly rather than pretty. For varieties sake.

Well, in my opinion, default M!Hawke was a dog  Marian was pretty, though.

[SavesTheDay]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

SavesTheDay wrote...

I would prefer if no one really commented on your characters appearance. It might get old really quickly and then to avoid it, you'd have make a certain type of character and maybe it won't be quite what you wanted.

This would be called "realism".  Except in RL you can't make another character if you're stuck with one most people think is fugly.

I'm not saying it's the best option evarr omg DO IT!, I'm saying it has potential to be interesting.  If they left things out of games because it might get old and somebody won't get what they want, they'd have to leave out THE ENTIRE GAME.

And even then, they'd be disappointing the people who WANTED A GAME.

no, sometimes they leave things out of games because they get repetitive and are no longer fun, repetitive dialogue is one of those things that gets old fast. i just meant that, too avoid those comments youmd have to make your charcter by some elsems standard of beauty and once those comments got oold, the game would no longer be fun.

[SavesTheDay]

Also, I typed that from a phone that won't let me see what I'm typing and only occasionaly will let me captilise letters and make aposthrophes.

[cJohnOne]

What Hawke was the epitome of manliness ness ness.

[Maria Caliban]

SavesTheDay wrote...

Also, I typed that from a phone that won't let me see what I'm typing and only occasionaly will let me captilise letters and make aposthrophes.

capitalization is unnecessary and not having an apostrophe where you need one is far better than having an apostrophe where none is needed. its not something you need to apologize for.

[Teddie Sage]

How about no? I don't want to play a fugly default character.

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 11 avril 2012 - 12:31 .

[Satyricon331]

PsychoBlonde wrote...
And the dreaded toggle makes its presence known!

I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea--I'd love to be able to pick your base personality from the get go and have conversation options that ALL reflect your persona.  But the implementation difficulties/expenses soon spiral out of control.

Fenris lacking self-assurance there was pretty good characterization, though, and, yes, it did use an informed trait.

A toggle could work like the old charisma rating.  I think that would be better if they have to do anything... I didn't like it when Fenris commented b/c it felt weirdly depersonalized.  I think the way I felt was analogous to the way it would feel if an NPC had a very particular reaction in a conversation but did so regardless of your dialog choices even though the choices were very different.  It wasn't godawfulmakeitstopnow but it felt a little broken, like it reminded me of what an assemblage of parts my Hawke's looks were.  Barring a slider/toggle/rating system, I'd personally prefer the game to take a vaguer or more neutral approach.

[Dejajeva]

You can make your char ugly if you want to, can't you? I never tried because I like being hot ****, but I mean, you could if you tried and played around with the char creator? I'm going to try to make an ugly char later.

[SavesTheDay]

You can make an ugly character if you want, the OP wants NPCs to notice and comment if your character your character is ugly or not especially attractive.

[DumplingDumpling]

There is that one lady you talk to at the Blooming Rose who mentions that Hawke is no prize, but it is implied that Hawke is good looking more often.

I wouldn't love it if NPCs would mention my character being unattractive, just to give me a sense of the character being unappealing. It would be interesting though, to have some NPCs not find your character attractive and perhaps treat you a bit coldly because of it.

I think mixed reactions may be a good middle ground. Having everybody find the PC absolutely unappealing might get tiresome and I admit, I would probably get annoyed after hearing it again and again. However, it seems a bit over the top for too many NPCs to mention how gorgeous the main character is.

Anyway, it's an interesting idea. I could probably learn to love it.

[Maria Caliban]

We need an Attractiveness stat. Or trait.

[cJohnOne]

I'd always ignore the Attractivness stat. and go for more Strength etc. for more damage. So it's not too valuable to me as a Stat. If you could choose between three levels of attractiveness so the game treats you differently that might be okay but still it would use up resources.

Modifié par cJohnOne, 11 avril 2012 - 03:08 .

[Dejajeva]

Maria Caliban wrote...

We need an Attractiveness stat. Or trait.

Or skill.

[Sharn01]

No thanks, I would rather be the one that determines what my character looks like, if you start defining too much your starting to get close to a pre-determined character.

I would be fine with an attribute that you picked during character creation that determined physical appearance so long as it had an effect on the game. I would actually approve a perk like system, where you can take advantages and disadvantages that would have an effect on the game. Maybe you have nothing by default, but if you want a advantage you need to take a disadvantage. These should probably be things that effect npc reaction and the story, not combat.

[Mclouvins]

Maria Caliban wrote...

We need an Attractiveness stat. Or trait.

Saints Row sex appeal slider go.

[Lucy Glitter]

^ GIANT BOOBIES AND CROTCHES EVERYWHEREEEEEE

Sabriana wrote...

That's already been done. In NWN your charisma decided that. At least it did in HotU. High/low charisma had the NPC's comment on your appearance.one way or the other.

I really want that back. Using stats in every situation like the old times. It was kind of there in Origins, but not enough in my personal opinion (we only had two cunning replies to companions, if I recall) and i'd love to see more encounters play out with stats. 

Not that I will expect it in 3, but i'd like it.

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 11 avril 2012 - 04:22 .

[the_one_54321]

My vision of how this will turn out