278 réponses à ce sujet

[FellishBeast]

Hackett is a figment of Shepard's imagination. No one else ever talks to him.

[Ytook]

JustinElenbaas wrote...

I agree they work in tandem.  And if low EMS came off as better I apologize.  I meant to state a low EMS means the Reapers do not have the option of full control of the citadel like they do with high EMS, they need a concentrated blast of devastating power, enough even to destroy reapers to affect the divided fleets throughout the galaxy.  However I believe the high EMS, Destroy ending is the "golden" ending.  I feel it gives Shepard opportunity and leaves it vague enough that the unified fleet might not be completely decimated.  However I believe the Control is the full desire of the Catalyst, it exemplifies the Reapers winning completely.  They fully control the citadel and do not need to fire a second shot the crucible explosion is enough to decimate the fleets throughout the galaxy.

Ok, I get you now, sorry about that. I personally feel that the only way the final moments can work is if everything after being hit by harbingers beam is the final stages of indoctrination playing out in Shepards head, and the crucible was basically nothing but a way to bring most military force in the galaxy to a killing field, it doesn't actually do anything. But most everything else in your theory works to support that take on the indoc theory and everything else is a very interesting idea. I'm not saying I'm right and your wrong, it's just the way I view it. And we won't know until the extended cut anyway I suppose =P. I hope Bioware reads all this, if this is all just fan fiction please feel free to use it!

[LordRaptor]

N7Infernox wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Okay...big problem with your theory is that you do actually see Reapers being destroyed (at least in the Sol system) with the Destroy ending. And the same beam that causes that destruction is spread through out the Mass Relay network. So, unless your claim is that the Reapers are playing possum...your theory does not hold water.

The theory mentions the fact that you actually destroy part of the crubible to get that ending. The Catalyst also seems to  downplay that option; the guy's in your head after all, and he probably didn't omit that option completely b/c Shepard might fully realize that something was wrong with what the Ctalyst was telling him.

I will edit my original post to add clarity to this.  In all destroy endings the Crucible explosion and Citadel Beam are two separate blasts.  The first wave that destroys the Reapers is concentrated entirely in the Sol system.  It does not spread beyond as is not a part of the second eruption from the Citadel that blasts through the Mass Relays.  It is the "worst" option in the eyes of the Catalyst because it causes Reaper casualties, but those casualties are an acceptable loss if it gets Shepard to agree to unlock the Citadel so the Catalyst can assume control.

The only damage we see caused by the Citadel Beam is the malfunctioning of the Normandy.  We are lead to assume when the cinematic pulls back and shows the galaxy that the explosions are destroying Reapers, but we have no proof.  However there is evidence the beam can and does damage conventional ships.

Modifié par JustinElenbaas, 11 avril 2012 - 02:02 .

[N7Infernox]

JustinElenbaas wrote...

pistolols wrote...

JustinElenbaas wrote...

which no Reapers attempted to attack even after it was attached to the Citadel.

As someone already pointed out, major problem with the theory: the reapers destroy the crucible if you take to long to choose at the end and you get a critical mission failure screen.

I've debated that with; "It's never directly stated REAPERS destroyed it."  If I am operating under the MT then it is feasible unified fleet ships that have realized the Crucible is a trap have turned on it and destroyed it.

I'm sticking with crossfire being the reason for its destruction. Having the fleets destroy it randomly seems a bit  contradictory (also considering that Critical Mission Failure comes up)

[jumpingkaede]

JustinElenbaas wrote...

pistolols wrote...

JustinElenbaas wrote...

which no Reapers attempted to attack even after it was attached to the Citadel.

As someone already pointed out, major problem with the theory: the reapers destroy the crucible if you take to long to choose at the end and you get a critical mission failure screen.

I've debated that with; "It's never directly stated REAPERS destroyed it."  If I am operating under the MT then it is feasible unified fleet ships that have realized the Crucible is a trap have turned on it and destroyed it.

I have a solution for that too!  Both fleets are pretty obviously (based on the cutscene) firing in every direction without targeting systems.  After 20 minutes of that the Crucible gets inadvertently destroyed by friendly fire.

Along with a large portion of Earth.... Issac Newton, you deadly sonuva...

(Not srs).

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 11 avril 2012 - 02:01 .

[LordRaptor]

N7Infernox wrote...

JustinElenbaas wrote...

pistolols wrote...

JustinElenbaas wrote...

which no Reapers attempted to attack even after it was attached to the Citadel.

As someone already pointed out, major problem with the theory: the reapers destroy the crucible if you take to long to choose at the end and you get a critical mission failure screen.

I've debated that with; "It's never directly stated REAPERS destroyed it."  If I am operating under the MT then it is feasible unified fleet ships that have realized the Crucible is a trap have turned on it and destroyed it.

I'm sticking with crossfire being the reason for its destruction. Having the fleets destroy it randomly seems a bit  contradictory (also considering that Critical Mission Failure comes up)

You are free to see it as you see fit.  I have never seen this Critical Mission Failure so I can of course...only speculate.  

[balance5050]

JustinElenbaas wrote...

pistolols wrote...

JustinElenbaas wrote...

which no Reapers attempted to attack even after it was attached to the Citadel.

As someone already pointed out, major problem with the theory: the reapers destroy the crucible if you take to long to choose at the end and you get a critical mission failure screen.

I've debated that with; "It's never directly stated REAPERS destroyed it."  If I am operating under the MT then it is feasible unified fleet ships that have realized the Crucible is a trap have turned on it and destroyed it.

I'm sorry but the entire fleet "realizing" that the Crucible is a trap and turning on the very thing that they have spent their best resources and scientific minds on, is just not feasible or practical. This is a nice spin on I.T. and they're may be some truth in there some where. But it wasn't the fleet who destroys it.

[Ytook]

Wait, the reapers destroy the crucible if you take too long to choose? I had no idea that happened... Silly me. So slightly off topic, but if the kid is the controller of the reapers and is now able to offer these new 'better' options why do they then attack the crucible? And if that was an acceptable outcome why not just do it from the start? It seems the more I find out about the ending the more plotholes emerge.

[D.Sharrah]

JustinElenbaas wrote...

N7Infernox wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Okay...big problem with your theory is that you do actually see Reapers being destroyed (at least in the Sol system) with the Destroy ending. And the same beam that causes that destruction is spread through out the Mass Relay network. So, unless your claim is that the Reapers are playing possum...your theory does not hold water.

The theory mentions the fact that you actually destroy part of the crubible to get that ending. The Catalyst also seems to  downplay that option; the guy's in your head after all, and he probably didn't omit that option completely b/c Shepard might fully realize that something was wrong with what the Ctalyst was telling him.

I will edit my original post to add clarity to this.  In all destroy endings the Crucible explosion and Citadel Beam are two separate blasts.  The first wave that destroys the Reapers is concentrated entirely in the Sol system.  It does not spread beyond as is not a part of the second eruption from the Citadel that blasts through the Mass Relays.  It is the "worst" option in the eyes of the Catalyst because it causes Reaper casualties, but those casualties are an acceptable loss if it gets Shepard to agree to unlock the Citadel so the Catalyst can assume control.

The only damage we see caused by the Citadel Beam is the malfunctioning of the Normandy.  We are lead to assume when the cinematic pulls back and shows the galaxy that the explosions are destroying Reapers, but we have no proof.  However there is evidence the beam can and does damage conventional ships.

Others have speculated that the first blast is the crucible "beaming" Shepard back to the planet's surface...I tend to think that helps to bring credence to the fact (that with a high EMS) you see Shep take a breath and it looks more like London than the Citadel.

[LordRaptor]

FellishBeast wrote...

Hackett is a figment of Shepard's imagination. No one else ever talks to him.

Lol Anderson does, and Anderson also asks about Hackett "Why haven't we heard from Admiral Hackett?"

[LordRaptor]

balance5050 wrote...

JustinElenbaas wrote...

pistolols wrote...

JustinElenbaas wrote...

which no Reapers attempted to attack even after it was attached to the Citadel.

As someone already pointed out, major problem with the theory: the reapers destroy the crucible if you take to long to choose at the end and you get a critical mission failure screen.

I've debated that with; "It's never directly stated REAPERS destroyed it."  If I am operating under the MT then it is feasible unified fleet ships that have realized the Crucible is a trap have turned on it and destroyed it.

I'm sorry but the entire fleet "realizing" that the Crucible is a trap and turning on the very thing that they have spent their best resources and scientific minds on, is just not feasible or practical. This is a nice spin on I.T. and they're may be some truth in there some where. But it wasn't the fleet who destroys it.

I agree this is a very strong argument.  Unfortunately I have not seen this critical mission failure screen so I cannot comment on what exactly I think causes it at this time.  Such as: do you see a Reaper fire on the crucible just before receiving it?  Does nothing about the surrounding space battle change right before it is destroyed?  We're all trying to read into Bioware's..."vision" and "artistic integrity" here, so we have to see.  It could also be attributed to the same end as when Shepard lets Illusive Man kill him.  It is not the canon, but necessary to force the player to continue.

[LordRaptor]

Ytook wrote...

Wait, the reapers destroy the crucible if you take too long to choose? I had no idea that happened... Silly me. So slightly off topic, but if the kid is the controller of the reapers and is now able to offer these new 'better' options why do they then attack the crucible? And if that was an acceptable outcome why not just do it from the start? It seems the more I find out about the ending the more plotholes emerge.

From my understanding of what those who have raised this argument have said, "It is not overtly stated it is destroyed by Reapers," so how it is destroyed is speculative.  Sigh.  Yay Bioware.

[LordRaptor]

D.Sharrah wrote...

JustinElenbaas wrote...

N7Infernox wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Okay...big problem with your theory is that you do actually see Reapers being destroyed (at least in the Sol system) with the Destroy ending. And the same beam that causes that destruction is spread through out the Mass Relay network. So, unless your claim is that the Reapers are playing possum...your theory does not hold water.

The theory mentions the fact that you actually destroy part of the crubible to get that ending. The Catalyst also seems to  downplay that option; the guy's in your head after all, and he probably didn't omit that option completely b/c Shepard might fully realize that something was wrong with what the Ctalyst was telling him.

I will edit my original post to add clarity to this.  In all destroy endings the Crucible explosion and Citadel Beam are two separate blasts.  The first wave that destroys the Reapers is concentrated entirely in the Sol system.  It does not spread beyond as is not a part of the second eruption from the Citadel that blasts through the Mass Relays.  It is the "worst" option in the eyes of the Catalyst because it causes Reaper casualties, but those casualties are an acceptable loss if it gets Shepard to agree to unlock the Citadel so the Catalyst can assume control.

The only damage we see caused by the Citadel Beam is the malfunctioning of the Normandy.  We are lead to assume when the cinematic pulls back and shows the galaxy that the explosions are destroying Reapers, but we have no proof.  However there is evidence the beam can and does damage conventional ships.

Others have speculated that the first blast is the crucible "beaming" Shepard back to the planet's surface...I tend to think that helps to bring credence to the fact (that with a high EMS) you see Shep take a breath and it looks more like London than the Citadel.

Hmm well the first blast is always a spherical AOE blast, so I'm not sure...unless I've missed a concentrated blast that fires back down to London.

[Jamie9]

JustinElenbaas wrote...

Ytook wrote...

Wait, the reapers destroy the crucible if you take too long to choose? I had no idea that happened... Silly me. So slightly off topic, but if the kid is the controller of the reapers and is now able to offer these new 'better' options why do they then attack the crucible? And if that was an acceptable outcome why not just do it from the start? It seems the more I find out about the ending the more plotholes emerge.

From my understanding of what those who have raised this argument have said, "It is not overtly stated it is destroyed by Reapers," so how it is destroyed is speculative.  Sigh.  Yay Bioware.

If you stand around for about 15 minutes doing nothing this happens:

[The Mercenary55]

Jesus, i hope this isnt true, its even more damn bleak than the current ending.

[lonedude73]

Harbinger trying to control Hackett is impossible. This is how it will go down.

Assuming direct cont-

Hackett out

End of discussion. 

Modifié par lonedude73, 11 avril 2012 - 02:25 .

[LordRaptor]

Jamie9 wrote...

JustinElenbaas wrote...

Ytook wrote...

Wait, the reapers destroy the crucible if you take too long to choose? I had no idea that happened... Silly me. So slightly off topic, but if the kid is the controller of the reapers and is now able to offer these new 'better' options why do they then attack the crucible? And if that was an acceptable outcome why not just do it from the start? It seems the more I find out about the ending the more plotholes emerge.

From my understanding of what those who have raised this argument have said, "It is not overtly stated it is destroyed by Reapers," so how it is destroyed is speculative.  Sigh.  Yay Bioware.

If you stand around for about 15 minutes doing nothing this happens:

I appreciate that, saves me the time of doing it.  Well in watching that I would attribute it similarly to choosing not to fire on the Illusive Man with the Renegade interrupt.  It may be there to force the player to take an action or make a decision.  I do not believe it debunks MT, just like I do not believe it debunks IT.  It just gives us speculation...hooray.  Cause we love that.

[pistolols]

Ytook wrote...

Wait, the reapers destroy the crucible if you take too long to choose? I had no idea that happened... Silly me. So slightly off topic, but if the kid is the controller of the reapers and is now able to offer these new 'better' options why do they then attack the crucible? And if that was an acceptable outcome why not just do it from the start? It seems the more I find out about the ending the more plotholes emerge.

Actually this fact is what debunks an alleged contradiction people bring up.  This is the proof we have that the reapers are independent intelligences, as stated in ME1, despite being ultimately controlled by the catalyst.  The catalyst has been reprogrammed by this point for the new solutions, yet the reapers are still going through with the old solution out there killing people and attacking the crucible.  If catalyst had a direct control relationship over them, we could expect that the reapers would cease all action as soon as the catalyst was reprogrammed for the new solutions.

[jumpingkaede]

The Mercenary55 wrote...

Jesus, i hope this isnt true, its even more damn bleak than the current ending.

Since the consequences don't change, only the behind-the-scene motivations, it's exactly as bleak as the current ending.

[D.Sharrah]

Here watch the video...



You see the an explosion, burst of blue light from the beam, and then it shifts to red...

[LordRaptor]

pistolols wrote...

Ytook wrote...

Wait, the reapers destroy the crucible if you take too long to choose? I had no idea that happened... Silly me. So slightly off topic, but if the kid is the controller of the reapers and is now able to offer these new 'better' options why do they then attack the crucible? And if that was an acceptable outcome why not just do it from the start? It seems the more I find out about the ending the more plotholes emerge.

Actually this fact is what debunks an alleged contradiction people bring up.  This is the proof we have that the reapers are independent intelligences, as stated in ME1, despite being ultimately controlled by the catalyst.  The catalyst has been reprogrammed by this point for the new solutions, yet the reapers are still going through with the old solution out there killing people and attacking the crucible.  If catalyst had a direct control relationship over them, we could expect that the reapers would cease all action as soon as the catalyst was reprogrammed for the new solutions.

This could very well be the case.  The Catalyst is fighting time, needing the Crucible to be fired in order to regain control of not only the Citadel and Mass Relays, but the Reapers as well.  It makes sense.

[wheelierdan]

for hacket to be indoctrinated wouldnt he have to um, come into contact with reaper tech? he always sends people to do his work. does this fun theory have an origin moment? did i miss it?

[GBGriffin]

wheelierdan wrote...

for hacket to be indoctrinated wouldnt he have to um, come into contact with reaper tech? he always sends people to do his work. does this fun theory have an origin moment? did i miss it?

Who cares anymore? Every theory ever is correct.

[LordRaptor]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Here watch the video...



You see the an explosion, burst of blue light from the beam, and then it shifts to red...

I watched both explosions repeatedly, the Crucible Explosion and Citadel Beam.  I'm sorry I do not see it, could you provide me with a time marker?

[Jamie9]

wheelierdan wrote...

for hacket to be indoctrinated wouldnt he have to um, come into contact with reaper tech? he always sends people to do his work. does this fun theory have an origin moment? did i miss it?

We know nothing about Hackett's past really. At all. The only thing I can remember is that he says he is an "old friend" of Dr. Amanda Kenson.

Though I can't remember Dr. Kenson ever actually confirming that. I can't remember her mentioning Hackett either actually. Been 2 months since I played Arrival though...