496 réponses à ce sujet

[fle6isnow]

SiriusXI wrote...

It is so sad if you have to use so much energy just to convince yourself that the ending does not suck. By now, more than half of the ending that you "like" is not anymore in the GAME, but in your HEADS. You like the ending because you imagine the things instead of seeing them ingame.

I like zhe ending too if I imagine that IT is true! Sure, great ending, just too bad it is in my head. You are just fooling yourselves. You paid 60+$ for your own imagination...

Sigh, this is why I am annoyed at some Retakers/anti-enders... maybe even a lot, since so many anti-enders feel that they have to tell me what I should or shouldn't like.

I'm not using up energy to convince myself or to convince others. I just enjoy discussion, pretty much, and there is a lot to discuss about the endings and about the game itself. I could say that it is sad that anti-enders waste so much energy railing against the endings and listing and nitpicking every single thing they hate about it, but what's the point? It's their prerogative to do so, just like it's my prerogative to like the endings and discuss the details and concepts I liked about it with people.

I paid $80 for the collector's edition of a game that I enjoyed, and that engrosses me to the point that even now, I'm still thinking about it and having fun playing it over and over. I paid perhaps close to $150 for the whole of Mass Effect--a series that I enjoyed and that I feel is one of THE best sci-fi stories of all time, along with Star Trek, Asimov's robot stories, Clarke's Rama series, etc. I'm sorry you think your $60 was wasted--my money was well-spent.

[OnlyHazeRemains]

Aww ****...

I grind my teeth and tip my hat to you.

Bioware pasting cookie-cutter CGI on top of them and me not expecting an intellectual scope as big as this kept me from understanding the Endings, but after reading the escapist article and that editorial from Rei i finally get whats going on.

I will now proceed to remove my stupid retake signature and spend the next few days in shame...

Modifié par Samurai_Smartie, 16 avril 2012 - 11:42 .

[GuyIncognito]

Samurai_Smartie wrote...

Aww ****...

I grind my teeth and tip my hat to you.

Bioware pasting cookie-cutter CGI on top of them and me not expecting an intellectual scope as big as this kept me from understanding the Endings, but after reading the escapist article and that editorial from Rei i finally get whats going on.

I will now proceed to remove my stupid retake signature and spend the next few days in shame...

Seriously man, no one is calling the Retaker movement stupid. Some of the actions which have come forth from the movement are a little questionable (i.e. the splinter group that decided Billboards was a good idea).

This is just another point of view.

I still hold the opinion that the Retaker rallying cry should not be "Shepard deserves a better ending" but more along the lines of "The Player's Shepard deserves an ending." And that's reasonable.

Modifié par GuyIncognito, 16 avril 2012 - 11:54 .

[Hudathan]

SiriusXI wrote...

It is so sad if you have to use so much energy just to convince yourself that the ending does not suck. By now, more than half of the ending that you "like" is not anymore in the GAME, but in your HEADS. You like the ending because you imagine the things instead of seeing them ingame.

I like zhe ending too if I imagine that IT is true! Sure, great ending, just too bad it is in my head. You are just fooling yourselves. You paid 60+$ for your own imagination...

fle6isnow wrote...

Sigh, this is why I am annoyed at some Retakers/anti-enders... maybe even a lot, since so many anti-enders feel that they have to tell me what I should or shouldn't like.

I'm not using up energy to convince myself or to convince others. I just enjoy discussion, pretty much, and there is a lot to discuss about the endings and about the game itself. I could say that it is sad that anti-enders waste so much energy railing against the endings and listing and nitpicking every single thing they hate about it, but what's the point? It's their prerogative to do so, just like it's my prerogative to like the endings and discuss the details and concepts I liked about it with people. 

I paid $80 for the collector's edition of a game that I enjoyed, and that engrosses me to the point that even now, I'm still thinking about it and having fun playing it over and over. I paid perhaps close to $150 for the whole of Mass Effect--a series that I enjoyed and that I feel is one of THE best sci-fi stories of all time, along with Star Trek, Asimov's robot stories, Clarke's Rama series, etc. I'm sorry you think your $60 was wasted--my money was well-spent.

Next time just kill it with fire.

Modifié par Hudathan, 17 avril 2012 - 12:22 .

[lx_theo]

SiriusXI wrote...

It is so sad if you have to use so much energy just to convince yourself that the ending does not suck. By now, more than half of the ending that you "like" is not anymore in the GAME, but in your HEADS. You like the ending because you imagine the things instead of seeing them ingame.

I like zhe ending too if I imagine that IT is true! Sure, great ending, just too bad it is in my head. You are just fooling yourselves. You paid 60+$ for your own imagination...

Sorry, would you rather Bioware spoonfeed you the ending? Maybe give you a bib?

[OnlyHazeRemains]

lx_theo wrote...

Sorry, would you rather Bioware spoonfeed you the ending? Maybe give you a bib?

Dont be smug, it really is easily misunderstood.

[webhead921]

SiriusXI wrote...

It is so sad if you have to use so much energy just to convince yourself that the ending does not suck. By now, more than half of the ending that you "like" is not anymore in the GAME, but in your HEADS. You like the ending because you imagine the things instead of seeing them ingame.

I like zhe ending too if I imagine that IT is true! Sure, great ending, just too bad it is in my head. You are just fooling yourselves. You paid 60+$ for your own imagination...

Am I the only one who finds it hilarious?  If you are juding by the amount of energy spent on this board, then the anti-enders have spent 100x more energy trying to convince us that the ending stinks.  Like others have said in this thread, I'm here because I want to talk about this game and I don't feel like typing an essay everytime someone insists that I explain myself to them.  If people want to know why I like it, I can refer them to some of the links here.

[GuyIncognito]

webhead921 wrote...
Am I the only one who finds it hilarious?  If you are juding by the amount of energy spent on this board, then the anti-enders have spent 100x more energy trying to convince us that the ending stinks.  Like others have said in this thread, I'm here because I want to talk about this game and I don't feel like typing an essay everytime someone insists that I explain myself to them.  If people want to know why I like it, I can refer them to some of the links here.

Learned a long time ago in high school debate that you can't force a mind set change, if someone really thought that the sky was red even though all evidence would prove that it is blue there is an absurdly high chance that the same person would still argue that it is red.

You've seen statements along the lines of "ohhh... I'm not smart enough to get the ending?" 

Rarely does anyone ever desire to be incorrect with his/her way of thinking and the mindset must be open to accept that another opinion may offer a different way of thinking. At some level this might preclude that their position was inferior. I don't know about any other author mentioned by the OP, but that's not why I'm part of this thread nor what I'm trying to convey.

Modifié par GuyIncognito, 17 avril 2012 - 12:49 .

[lx_theo]

Samurai_Smartie wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Sorry, would you rather Bioware spoonfeed you the ending? Maybe give you a bib?

Dont be smug, it really is easily misunderstood.

Fire with fire.

[fle6isnow]

Guys, guys, don't make me break out the fire extinguisher!

Although I will say that playing with fire extinguishers is fun, even if it's putting out fires in your oven because you forgot to convert from Fahrenheit to Celcius...

But yes, the ending really is easily misunderstood, which is why I support the EC.

Modifié par fle6isnow, 17 avril 2012 - 02:10 .

[ardensia]

lx_theo wrote...

Samurai_Smartie wrote...

lx_theo wrote...

Sorry, would you rather Bioware spoonfeed you the ending? Maybe give you a bib?

Dont be smug, it really is easily misunderstood.

Fire with fire.

Fire with fire might get this thread locked down, and certainly won't do anything to make other people think we have valid points of view rather than being emotionally-charged delusional freaks. I'll join fle6isnow on the fire extinguishers, too, if need be.

Samurai_Smartie wrote...

Aww ****...

I grind my teeth and tip my hat to you. 

Bioware pasting cookie-cutter CGI on top of them and me not expecting an intellectual scope as big as this kept me from understanding the Endings, but after reading the escapist article and that editorial from Rei i finally get whats going on.

I will now proceed to remove my stupid retake signature and spend the next few days in shame...

 

Heh. You've just illustrated both what I love and what I hate about the endings. I've said it before and I'll say it again: The idea behind the endings is amazing, but their presentation is terrible. The philosophy they were trying to get at, the questions they were trying to make us ask, and even their attempt at not judging our answers to those questions were wonderful ideas. But the way that they implement it, unfortunately, shoots the whole concept in the foot for most people.

I really have no problem with them making people dig for answers. We get too many things served up nice and pretty for us. But the thing is, even if they'd given us a far more cookie-cutter ending where everything is tied up in a pretty bow, the story they've told is already deep enough that us diggers would dig and we would find these themes. Trying to toss everyone else into the philosophy aspect of the story just served to enbitter most of the fanbase to a point that an unfortunate number will never be able to see the treasures within.

Still hoping the EC will strike a happy medium (and really, with their already demonstrated skills, there's no reason to think it won't), but it will take a while to patch over the wounds that are open now.

Thanks for giving it a second chance, Samurai_Smartie.

Modifié par ardensia, 17 avril 2012 - 04:37 .

[fle6isnow]

"Us diggers would dig"... eeeyup, that pretty much explains why I'm having so much fun with the endings. I mean, I'm the crazy person who has philosophical discussions about MLP:FiM with the S.O., after all. Lol. Ardensia, you're like, one of my brain twins on the forum.

Anyway, updated the first post with some links:
The Ending Bioware tried to make, and the Ending they actually made by Nobrandminda
http://social.biowar...ndex/11431347/1

Why "extended cut" and "clarification" is better, then... by vit-tronart
http://social.biowar.../index/11454763

Wasn't really sure which category to throw those links under so I put it in the "red" category. They could be more suited to the "green" category though, idk.

Modifié par fle6isnow, 17 avril 2012 - 07:39 .

[ardensia]

fle6isnow wrote...

"Us diggers would dig"... eeeyup, that pretty much explains why I'm having so much fun with the endings. I mean, I'm the crazy person who has philosophical discussions about MLP:FiM with the S.O., after all. Lol. Ardensia, you're like, one of my brain twins on the forum.

Anyway, updated the first post with some links:
The Ending Bioware tried to make, and the Ending they actually made by Nobrandminda
http://social.biowar...ndex/11431347/1

Why "extended cut" and "clarification" is better, then... by vit-tronart
http://social.biowar.../index/11454763

Wasn't really sure which category to throw those links under so I put it in the "red" category. They could be more suited to the "green" category though, idk.

Yeah, there are a few people active in this thread who keep stealing stuff from my brain. I wish I was a psych student looking to write a paper. I'd have a field day with people's personalities and reactions to the game's ending. An absolute field day. But I'm too lazy to do something like that without a deadline looming over my head.<_<

I saw those posts. Glad to see them added. I think they're good stuff.

fle6isnow wrote...

WARNING (just because warning labels are fun to write)

The following threads may contain "Lots of Speculation from Everyone." Parental supervision is advised. Speculation may be incompatible with certain medical and mental conditions. Talk to your doctor and see if Speculation is right for you.

 

Is this part also new? It's hilarious. 

Modifié par ardensia, 17 avril 2012 - 07:48 .

[fle6isnow]

@ardensia, yup that part is new-ish.

Updated the first post with this link:

The ME3 Ending Controversy by Press Start To Continue
http://press-start-t...ing-controversy

and I'm not including this in the list, since it's anti-ending, but this post by Dr. Dray is interesting, even if I disagree with some of his analysis. I am very tempted to do a rebuttal, but I just did my taxes and my brain is deeeead.

Modifié par fle6isnow, 17 avril 2012 - 11:58 .

[Zweipersona]

ardensia wrote...

Heh. You've just illustrated both what I love and what I hate about the endings. I've said it before and I'll say it again: The idea behind the endings is amazing, but their presentation is terrible. The philosophy they were trying to get at, the questions they were trying to make us ask, and even their attempt at not judging our answers to those questions were wonderful ideas. But the way that they implement it, unfortunately, shoots the whole concept in the foot for most people.

That's your problem.  The ending would actually be good... if the game had been designed around it.  But the game is far more... realistic?  Commander Shepard is a soldier with a gun and very clear goals.  Find Saren.  Investigate Reapers.  Stop Saren.  Build a team to stop Collectors.  Stop collectors.  Negotiate peace between old warring factions.  Cure an artificial disease.  These are tangible, realistic goals.  That's the vibe you get playing Mass Effect.  But 5 minutes before the ending, you suddenly get this abstract philosophy that you can't argue, and regardless of what you do, the end you see is the same.  

[KingZayd]

Why does the Catalyst (of whom the Citadel is part of) need a reaper that it controls to stay behind and tell it when the Harvest is ready [the organic races are on the Citadel (part of the Catalyst)], so that it can send a signal to the Keepers so that they can open the Citadel relay (part of the Catalyst)? How do the Protheans sneak onto the Citadel (part of the Catalyst) and change it without alerting the Catalyst? When the Citadel receives Sovereign's signal, and the keepers aren't activated, why doesn't it let Sovereign know what's going on? Why does Sovereign have to spend thousands of years figuring out by himself, and eventually using Saren to discover the truth. Why does the Citadel (part of the catalyst) have a master control console that organics can use? Why hasn't the Catalyst made the other reapers it controls who can enter the Milky Way using FTL drives, do so in all that time?

Please explain? (or direct me to a workable explanation, if that's easier)

Modifié par KingZayd, 18 avril 2012 - 12:21 .

[fle6isnow]

KingZayd wrote...

1) Why does the Catalyst (of whom the Citadel is part of) need a reaper that it controls to stay behind and tell it when the Harvest is ready [the organic races are on the Citadel (part of the Catalyst)], so that it can send a signal to the Keepers so that they can open the Citadel relay (part of the Catalyst)?

2) How do the Protheans sneak onto the Citadel (part of the Catalyst) and change it without alerting the Catalyst? When the Citadel receives Sovereign's signal, and the keepers aren't activated, why doesn't it let Sovereign know what's going on? Why hasn't the Catalyst made the other reapers it controls who can enter the Milky Way using FTL drives, do so in all that time?

3) Why does Sovereign have to spend thousands of years figuring out by himself, and eventually using Saren to discover the truth.

4) Why does the Citadel (part of the catalyst) have a master control console that organics can use?

Please explain? (or direct me to a workable explanation, if that's easier)

For a humorous take on these questions, see JShepppp's thread.

For a more serious-ish take, I guess I can answer some of that? I've rearranged the order of your questions so that it makes sense with my explanation. This post will contain lots of speculation from everyone! Or just me. My warning from the first page (that ardensia so helpfully quotes above) applies.

1) My thoughts on that is that the Catalyst is dormant between cycles until Sovereign wakes it up via the signal. Starbrat needs his nap, after all. I call this the "sleep mode" hypothesis. It's possible that it is awake; however it is still tied to the mostly stationary Citadel, so it would still need a Reaper who can fly around, checking on things.  I think the "sleep mode" explanation makes more sense.

2) This would be explained by the "sleep mode" hypothesis. The Protheans presumably sneaked in after the Reapers left, so they were able to mess with the Keepers while the Catalyst had its 40,000 winks. Sovereign then comes along and sees that the galaxy is ripe for plucking. He tries to turn on the signal, but fails. I can just imagine poor Sovy bashing haplessly upon a remote, but the TV Catalyst doesn't turn on, hence the Reapers do not come marching in from dark space. Now he has to figure out whether his remote is broken, or the TV is broken.

3) Sure, Sovy could've gone in to the Citadel or to the Reapers when he first learned of the remote signal failure. However, it kind of is a better idea to investigate the cause first. He doesn't know if the Protheans just messed with the signal or if they did other things--they could have left a trap for the Reapers, they could have found and disabled the Catalyst altogether, they could have left less incomprehensible warnings, letting the current cycle prepare even more... anyway the point is, going in blind was a risk, so Sovereign needed to investigate using indoctrinated organics.

Does it really say Sovereign took thousands of years? I'm thinking it would be closer to hundreds. Or maybe, as JShepppp says, Sovy just isn't really bright, lol. Either way, he finally gets a clue during the events of Mass Effect, and he figures it's safe enough to let the Reapers in. Unfortunately for poor Sovy, he is killed before activating the Citadel relay (and the Catalyst, too, I guess), but presumably after he signals the rest of the Reaper armada to get their butts in anyway.

4) They had that in ME1 too, in the Council chambers. Who knows. WE ARE BEYOND YOUR COMPREHENSION.

[Omilophile]

The endings aren't too clever for us anti-ender simpletons. Pro-enders are not elite intellectuals just because they disagree with us. And vice-versa. We have different interpetations of the endings. That's it. Personally, I think the endings were pseudo-philosophical garbage thrown in at the last second because they were running out of time. But if you honestly believe that they were well done than fine. I have no quarrel with pro-enders, just Bioware.

[fle6isnow]

Omilophile wrote...

The endings aren't too clever for us anti-ender simpletons. Pro-enders are not elite intellectuals just because they disagree with us. And vice-versa. We have different interpetations of the endings. That's it.

Exactly. I've been saying this a lot. Art depends on the viewer, and just because we have different interpretations, it does not mean that one side is correct or wrong. I'm soooooo frustrated by people on both sides saying the other side is stupid, idiotic, uncaring of lore, not real fans, has bad taste, just plain WRONG, or what have you. I'm tired of the trolling, the insults, and the flaming. Makes my trigger finger on my fire extinguisher itch, it does.

This is why I try to keep this thread all "rainbows and ponies.":innocent:

[Hudathan]

fle6isnow wrote...

and I'm not including this in the list, since it's anti-ending, but this post by Dr. Dray is interesting, even if I disagree with some of his analysis. I am very tempted to do a rebuttal, but I just did my taxes and my brain is deeeead.

I feel like this is just an example of some people not wanting a difficult decision to be the end of the series. 

I didn't expect it personally, but was pleasantly surprised when Bioware pulled a choice-based ending based on big themes and big ideas. I also knew immediately that it would not be everybody's cup of tea.

[earlmobile]

Ponies! I love ponies!

Seriously though, this is an awesome thread. The more i keep reading, the more i like this game and i already liked it in the beginning, although there are a lot of unknowns in it. There's a little part in my thats afraid if the DLC comes out and the ending is less open to interpretation than now, it'll be worse. But then again, Bioware has never disappointed me.

fle6isnow wrote...

Exactly. I've been saying this a lot. Art depends on the viewer, and just because we have different interpretations, it does not mean that one side is correct or wrong. I'm soooooo frustrated by people on both sides saying the other side is stupid, idiotic, uncaring of lore, not real fans, has bad taste, just plain WRONG, or what have you. I'm tired of the trolling, the insults, and the flaming. Makes my trigger finger on my fire extinguisher itch, it does.

The galaxy needs more people saying what you're saying, admiral. Good luck:wizard:

Modifié par earlmobile, 18 avril 2012 - 10:07 .

[jakal66]

Well I didn't like it so much but what killed me was the lack of closure and knowing what had really happened to my crew and to sheppard.
But it didn't make me go mad.That's why some retakers remind me of some politicians trying to feed me something I don't like and don't want to be a part of.

To add more... the fact that everything related to ME has one guy writing "change the ending" is getting really annoying...I used to sympathize with them but lately they've getting on my nervers.

I feel this is not the way to go...not the adult way at least in my opinion

Modifié par jakal66, 18 avril 2012 - 10:17 .

[RiouHotaru]

Omilophile wrote...

The endings aren't too clever for us anti-ender simpletons. Pro-enders are not elite intellectuals just because they disagree with us. And vice-versa. We have different interpetations of the endings. That's it. Personally, I think the endings were pseudo-philosophical garbage thrown in at the last second because they were running out of time. But if you honestly believe that they were well done than fine. I have no quarrel with pro-enders, just Bioware.

I agree with this.  This idea that being on one side or the other makes you less intelligent or stupid is just ridiculous.

[fle6isnow]

earlmobile wrote...
The galaxy needs more people saying what you're saying, admiral. Good luck:wizard:

I've been promoted to admiral? Oh yay!

Oh wait, that means I have to command a fleet. FFFFFUUUU-- I abdicate! I just want a nice little frigate, dammit. I will name it the Elentari, and we will have Tolkien-readings every week.

Anyway, so far I don't have any links today, but does anyone else have links they found?

[SilentK]

No new links    =)   

Aww... I'll swing by later and see if anything fun has come up at a later point. Keep those rainbows sparkling and ponies well-brushed.