496 réponses à ce sujet

[SnakesSon]

You guys and your silly projects.

[GuyIncognito]

wizardryforever wrote...
The endings were not anywhere near as bad or filled with plotholes as people claim around here, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so.

There's alot of interesting theories out and people performing analysis in their own way.
Just need to take things from a different point of view.

OP, how bout posting a few summaries for each link?

[soulprovider]

Tovanus wrote...

I have yet to see anyone come up with a pro-end statement that comes close to rebutting this video:

or this video about the extended ending.

 

[fle6isnow]

GuyIncognito wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...
The endings were not anywhere near as bad or filled with plotholes as people claim around here, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so.

There's alot of interesting theories out and people performing analysis in their own way.
Just need to take things from a different point of view.

OP, how bout posting a few summaries for each link?

I'll try, but I don't know how my patience will hold up, lol. If anyone can help with summarizing, it will definitely be appreciated!

[Hudathan]

Tovanus wrote...

I have yet to see anyone come up with a pro-end statement that comes close to rebutting this video:

He basically spends 40 minutes talking about why he doesn't think an open ended conclusion is good for ME3, it was nothing new even back when he made the video. He argues logic and the need to remain accurate to the scientific cannon of the series, yet uses none of the information available in the game universe that would differentiate the destruction of the relays in the ending to the one in 'Arrival', dismissing it as another plot hole while using loaded language through out the entire video on top of it. Either way, an extended cut can very well address a majority of stuff like this.

[GuyIncognito]

Eh... just have the authors type their own. It'll be easier on you.

The Stargazer Theory aka BW's Narrative Technique in DA2/ME3
- states that the post credit sequence of ME3 is meant to suggest that the Player was never in control of Shepard throughout the ME trilogy but instead controls The Stargazer and how "The Shepard Legend" is told to the child (much like in a manner how Varric narrates The Champion's Story in DA2). Also alludes to why this has caused such an uproar over the Player / Shepard relationship and the battle for "Your Shepard" Story vs. "The Shepard" Story.

[Hudathan]

GuyIncognito wrote...

The Stargazer Theory aka BW's Narrative Technique in DA2/ME3
- states that the post credit sequence of ME3 is meant to suggest that the Player was never in control of Shepard throughout the ME trilogy but instead controls The Stargazer and how "The Shepard Legend" is told to the child (much like in a manner how Varric narrates The Champion's Story in DA2). Also alludes to why this has caused such an uproar over the Player / Shepard relationship and the battle for "Your Shepard" Story vs. "The Shepard" Story.

I've always looked at my character as 'my Shepard'. I never thought of myself as Shepard because my name isn't Shepard and he doesn't always say/do what I tell him to, but I still make decisions as if I was him. Is that weird? 

Modifié par Hudathan, 11 avril 2012 - 07:34 .

[Oransel]

Sorry guys, but you are heavily outnumbered, even in silent majority part. EA is likely to ask Bioware to change the ending anyway. Sorry.

[GuyIncognito]

Hudathan wrote...
I've always looked at my character as 'my Shepard'. I never thought of myself as Shepard because my name isn't Shepard and he doesn't always say/do what I tell him to, but I still make decisions as if I was him. Is that weird? 

Not really all that weird. A player can get caught up in the immersion without realising it  but when something happens which takes that immersion away, that relationship between the Player / digital avatar... you wind up with well... what's happening now with the backlash against BW.

[fle6isnow]

Added two articles at the end of the first category. I think the second one I added is particularly interesting, and the comment section on that one has some pretty good discussion as well.

[Hudathan]

GuyIncognito wrote...

Hudathan wrote...
I've always looked at my character as 'my Shepard'. I never thought of myself as Shepard because my name isn't Shepard and he doesn't always say/do what I tell him to, but I still make decisions as if I was him. Is that weird? 

Not really all that weird. A player can get caught up in the immersion without realising it  but when something happens which takes that immersion away, that relationship between the Player / digital avatar... you wind up with well... what's happening now with the backlash against BW.

But that's the thing, Shepard is still enough of a fictional character that he is separate from me, the person. Therefore, even though I try to do the right thing in the story, I'm still doing it within the context of his character and not necessarily me.

This is probably why I was more accepting of the ending and more in tune with what my Shepard character would have wanted to DO vs what a player would have wanted to SEE, because I never personally projected myself onto Shepard even though I still took every little decision very seriously as if I was there.

fle6isnow wrote...

Added two articles at the end of the first category. I think the second one I added is particularly interesting, and the comment section on that one has some pretty good discussion as well.

I don't know if you heard the podcast PCGamer did on the topic a couple of weeks back but it was a nice, lengthy discussion from some reasonable voices.

Modifié par Hudathan, 11 avril 2012 - 07:52 .

[AllThatJazz]

Some interesting links there, thanks OP. The threads that actually provide arguments for why people liked the endings do tend to get a bit lost amongst all the anti-ending threads, so it's good to see this compilation

[Loreshield]

Xydorn wrote...

On a serious note, I don't like the endings at all, but I do like to hear from the other side. Thanks for posting this OP.

Pretty much this. I can absolutely understand and respect your stance, OP, even if I might disagree. None of that "Shepard deserves better fans" bullsh*t.

Anyway, great post!

[GuyIncognito]

Hudathan wrote...
But that's the thing, Shepard is still enough of a fictional character that he is separate from me, the person. Therefore, even though I try to do the right thing in the story, I'm still doing it within the context of his character and not necessarily me.

As I've come to review what's been going on in the other threads, it's fairly argueable that a player doesn't share that type of perception when it comes to the Player / Shepard relationship.

One of the posters in my thread compared it to RPing a character in D&D in the roleplay style vs thinking of Shepard as a digital avatar where its Shepard with that player's face instead.

Hudathan wrote...
This is probably why I was more accepting of the ending and more in tune with what my Shepard character would have wanted to DO vs what a player would have wanted to SEE, because I never personally projected myself onto Shepard even though I still took every little decision very seriously as if I was there.

And this is the difference between roleplaying a character vs rollplaying a character.

Modifié par GuyIncognito, 11 avril 2012 - 08:09 .

[fle6isnow]

Hudathan wrote...

I don't know if you heard the podcast PCGamer did on the topic a couple of weeks back but it was a nice, lengthy discussion from some reasonable voices.

I'll look that up and add it after I listen to it.

Loreshield wrote...

Xydorn wrote...

On a
serious note, I don't like the endings at all, but I do like to hear
from the other side. Thanks for posting this OP.

Pretty
much this. I can absolutely understand and respect your stance, OP, even
if I might disagree. None of that "Shepard deserves better fans"
bullsh*t.

Anyway, great post!

Yeah, I'm very disappointed at the people, both pro and anti, who insult and belittle the other side. All of us are fans of Shepard, even if we do not always agree on things.

Anyway, heading off to bed for now, but feel free to post more links and stuff!

[Rhyth]

If you like the ending, good for you! We're all happy for you guys! Really, we're all jealous and we wish we could like it.

The problem is that the ending doesn't make sense with OUR story. You say It fit YOUR Commander Shepard's story perfectly. Well, GOOD. But the ending doesn't fit ours! 

I understand your perspective, now please understand mine! It doesn't fit MY Commander Shepard.

I don't understand why you guys constantly antagonize "Anti-enders" [Retakers]. Even if BioWare finally decided that they WILL change the ending, that doesn't affect you! You can keep your ending without downloading any OPTIONAL DLC. Why do you constantly antagonize them?

Who are you guys? Team Rocket? Honestly.

Modifié par Rhyth, 11 avril 2012 - 08:17 .

[inko1nsiderate]

 I think something I wrote about the ending could be included in the list, but I realize saying that and posting here is nothing but shameless self-promotion... but whatever:

http://social.biowar.../index/10270489 

[Hudathan]

Rhyth wrote...

If you like the ending, good for you! We're all happy for you guys! Really, we're all jealous and we wish we could like it.

The problem is that the ending doesn't make sense with OUR story. You say It fit YOUR Commander Shepard's story perfectly. Well, GOOD. But the ending doesn't fit ours! 

I understand your perspective, now please understand mine! It doesn't fit MY Commander Shepard.

I don't understand why you guys constantly antagonize "Anti-enders" [Retakers]. Even if BioWare finally decided that they WILL change the ending, that doesn't affect you! You can keep your ending without downloading any OPTIONAL DLC. Why do you constantly antagonize them?

Who are you guys? Team Rocket? Honestly.

I don't see anyone doing any antagonizing here, other than providing an opposing view to some of the stuff we've all been forced to read for the past month.

[fle6isnow]

Rhyth wrote...

If you like the ending, good for you! We're all happy for you guys! Really, we're all jealous and we wish we could like it.

The problem is that the ending doesn't make sense with OUR story. You say It fit YOUR Commander Shepard's story perfectly. Well, GOOD. But the ending doesn't fit ours! 

I understand your perspective, now please understand mine! It doesn't fit MY Commander Shepard.

I don't understand why you guys constantly antagonize "Anti-enders" [Retakers]. Even if BioWare finally decided that they WILL change the ending, that doesn't affect you! You can keep your ending without downloading any OPTIONAL DLC. Why do you constantly antagonize them?

Who are you guys? Team Rocket? Honestly.

No one's antagonizing anyone here in this thread, and I hope to keep it that way. We're just putting forth our opinions about why we like the endings.

I, for one understand the antie-end/Retakers' points, and even agree with some of them. Like the ending animation...eugh. On my 2nd and 3rd playthroughs I just got up and made myself tea while the cutscene was playing. Also, as I said earlier, I wouldn't mind additional ending content as long as it adds to, rather than takes away, the current endings.

I did cosplay as a Team Rocket grunt in Anime Expo last year. I'll probably do it again this year, lol. Ah crap now you reminded me that I have to work on my other cosplays for this year, gah.

Ah! I said I was going to sleep. I should.

Modifié par fle6isnow, 11 avril 2012 - 08:27 .

[fle6isnow]

inko1nsiderate wrote...

 I think something I wrote about the ending could be included in the list, but I realize saying that and posting here is nothing but shameless self-promotion... but whatever:

http://social.biowar.../index/10270489 

Ooh, I remember reading that, but I couldn't find the thread. Thanks for linking! Shall add it in the morning.

[Rhyth]

fle6isnow wrote...

Rhyth wrote...

If you like the ending, good for you! We're all happy for you guys! Really, we're all jealous and we wish we could like it.

The problem is that the ending doesn't make sense with OUR story. You say It fit YOUR Commander Shepard's story perfectly. Well, GOOD. But the ending doesn't fit ours! 

I understand your perspective, now please understand mine! It doesn't fit MY Commander Shepard.

I don't understand why you guys constantly antagonize "Anti-enders" [Retakers]. Even if BioWare finally decided that they WILL change the ending, that doesn't affect you! You can keep your ending without downloading any OPTIONAL DLC. Why do you constantly antagonize them?

Who are you guys? Team Rocket? Honestly.

No one's antagonizing anyone here in this thread, and I hope to keep it that way. We're just putting forth our opinions about why we like the endings.

I, for one understand the antie-end/Retakers' points, and even agree with some of them. Like the ending animation...eugh. On my 2nd and 3rd playthroughs I just got up and made myself tea while the cutscene was playing. Also, as I said earlier, I wouldn't mind additional ending content as long as it adds to, rather than takes away, the current endings.

I did cosplay as a Team Rocket grunt in Anime Expo last year. I'll probably do it again this year, lol. Ah crap now you reminded me that I have to work on my other cosplays for this year, gah.

Ah! I said I was going to sleep. I should.

I apologize, I am just so frustrated and tired with the seperation between the community. I don't like the whole "Anti-Pro" war. It's pointless... If I liked the ending I would still support the other fans who did not, they feel cheated and lied to. All they get are insults and a big spit in the face.

Edit: Here is a thread I found just now explaning exactly what I feel
http://social.biowar...7068/1#11281866 
I would be very happy if you could add this to the OP so the "pro-ending community" stops constantly hounding the Retakers. [I understand fully that people in this thread are NOT antagonizing Retakers, but that doesn't change the fact that there are 'pro-enders' out there simply fighting Retakers.] This thread seems like a real Meta-Thread and I believe "Pro-enders" should see this as well.

Also, that was hilarious...with the whole team rocket cosplay

Modifié par Rhyth, 11 avril 2012 - 08:52 .

[ardensia]

Thank you for including my post on the list! Though I'm not sure if I qualify as a true pro-ender, because...

Tovanus wrote...

I have yet to see anyone come up with a pro-end statement that comes close to rebutting this video:

... for the most part, I agree with this video. I love the ideas presented in the ending, but I think their execution was poor. Maybe I should do a blog post on that, too. Might save me from repeating myself.

Re: summaries of the articles.... I had hoped to summarize it in the title, but barring that.... It is a blog post outlining one player's thought process in approach to the game as a whole, and why that made the synthetic ending work for that player.

If summaries are still needed tomorrow (tonight?), I'll see if I can't put together a few that aren't related to my own article... but right now it is late and I am tired. Feel free to message me or something if you want to coordinate on this. While I would like to read all the articles myself, summaries are more likely to get done if I'm reading specific ones that aren't already being summarized.

Modifié par ardensia, 11 avril 2012 - 08:54 .

[Otaku Hanzo]

I was never a pro-ender, nor was I an anti-ender. Up until a short while ago I held on to the belief that what we got was not the true ending but instead was Bioware's way of covering for the leak while they orchestrated a new ending.

Things the Devs recently said at PAX finally drove home that this was not the case and really upset me. Now I have been exploring both sides of the argument and needed this compilation more than anything. It beats sifting through the all the threads on here and having to sort through all the bickering back and forth.

Thanks, OP.

P.S. - Sleep well. I should soon. Probably won't though.

[Erixxxx]

Excellent idea for a thread! Well done, OP.

[Hudathan]

I was responding in another thread and realized too late that I was ranting and should have started a separate topic. Regardless, I'll just link it here and hope it gets added to the collection.

'Not simply another choice: Influences alternate endings would have on existing material.'

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11277068/2#11282771

Modifié par Hudathan, 11 avril 2012 - 09:58 .