496 réponses à ce sujet

[Shaigunjoe]

Nice post, good place for info.

[lillitheris]

Hudathan wrote...

Let's completely ignore the fact that Mass Effect has been the single most ambitous series ever conceived and obliterated all realistic expectations for the level of storytelling that could be achieved in this medium. Instead, let's accuse Bioware of intentionally 'betraying' us for daring to write their own ending to their story.

I don't know why I bother, in this thread, but you are ignoring the fact that, by and large, complaints are more that they didn't write an ending.

If you want to “win”, you have to argue better.

Modifié par lillitheris, 14 avril 2012 - 09:31 .

[Gilmadel]

OP, thanks for this. I too loved the ending, and am glad to see there is a place to bring people that can explain the many views on what Bioware did right.

[fle6isnow]

Le bump, updated with new links, and I also corrected some of the links where I forgot to credit or wrongly credited the OP.

I really should have a method to sort new links from old, lol.

[Hudathan]

lillitheris wrote...

I don't know why I bother, in this thread, but you are ignoring the fact that, by and large, complaints are more that they didn't write an ending.

If you want to “win”, you have to argue better.

No, YOU are ignoring the fact that some of of us share different opinions when it comes to the ending. Our argument is that we have plenty of reasons why we like the ending, that's why we came here and compiled our thoughts.

Nobody is trying to convince anyone into liking the endings when they don't. Our only goal is to prove that not everyone shares this sentiment. I have no interest in 'winning' because that was never the point. I know what I like and that renders the entire argument moot.

The point of this thread is to provide a different perspective and prove that an opinion, even a seemingly popular one, is not the same as objective fact.

Modifié par Hudathan, 15 avril 2012 - 01:05 .

[Arik7]

 

[Hudathan]

Arik7 wrote...

 

Trufax.

[Muhkida]

Arik7 wrote...

 

inb4somebodypostsEAhandingoutcash.gif

[Hudathan]

Muhkida wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

 

inb4somebodypostsEAhandingoutcash.gif

I'll take a picture when I get my next bi-weekly gift basket complete with Belgian chocolates and bottled tears of real fans.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Arik7 wrote...

 

Is that legitamte or a photoshop? If the former, that is the most intellectually dishonest piece of marketing i've seen in a while.

[Muhkida]

Hudathan wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

 

inb4somebodypostsEAhandingoutcash.gif

I'll take a picture when I get my next bi-weekly gift basket complete with Belgian chocolates and bottled tears of real fans.

Hold your walle....er cash.  Somebody made one already.



Besides, I hear those tears can be quite expensive.

[Zix13]

I have yet to see any of these that have even a semi-valid argument, could you shorten the list to the ones that aren't stupid or "I liked it, how dare you not like it" to save me the time of trying to find one?

[Zix13]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Arik7 wrote...

 

Is that legitamte or a photoshop? If the former, that is the most intellectually dishonest piece of marketing i've seen in a while.

What about "There will be no A, B or C ending"... It's an outright lie as opposed to a very horribly twisted truth. 

Modifié par Zix13, 15 avril 2012 - 02:09 .

[Muhkida]

Zix13 wrote...

I have yet to see any of these that have even a semi-valid argument, could you shorten the list to the ones that aren't stupid or "I liked it, how dare you not like it" to save me the time of trying to find one?

I'm not a pro-ender myself (in fact I was rather disappointed), but the 5th or 6th link that fle6isnow provided, the one about symbolism by tenojitsu made me appreciate the end a lot more.  I can almost agree with it 100%, but to each his own.

[fle6isnow]

Zix13 wrote...

I have yet to see any of these that have even a semi-valid argument, could you shorten the list to the ones that aren't stupid or "I liked it, how dare you not like it" to save me the time of trying to find one?

The problem is, if you don't like the endings, NOTHING we can say will ever convince you. But to be in good faith, start with this one, and work your way through the other ones.

galacticpillow.com/2012/04/02/editorial-the-reapers-advocate-a-different-take-on-the-mass-effect-3-ending 

[Jagri]

Think the disagreement all starts with the Starchild. This character introduced in the last five minutes of the game presents ridiculous and vague options. I wonder how people can stand there and listen to that little genocidal monster. All in the sig.

[Hudathan]

Muhkida wrote...

Hold your walle....er cash.  Somebody made one already.



Besides, I hear those tears can be quite expensive.

You'd be surprised, there are a lot to go around these days.

Zix13 wrote...

I have yet to see any of these that have even a semi-valid argument, could you shorten the list to the ones that aren't stupid or "I liked it, how dare you not like it" to save me the time of trying to find one?

Not our job to change people's minds. We are only providing a different perspective and proving that this isn't a 'fans vs Bioware' issue and that not everyone hates the ending.

[Zix13]

fle6isnow wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

I have yet to see any of these that have even a semi-valid argument, could you shorten the list to the ones that aren't stupid or "I liked it, how dare you not like it" to save me the time of trying to find one?

The problem is, if you don't like the endings, NOTHING we can say will ever convince you. But to be in good faith, start with this one, and work your way through the other ones.

galacticpillow.com/2012/04/02/editorial-the-reapers-advocate-a-different-take-on-the-mass-effect-3-ending 

Seems to me the premise of his argument concerning the inevitability of synthetic conflict is entirely speculation. Theoretical scientific estimations for an event with a sample size of zero. He has a semi-valid argument built upon that, but even with the questionable premise, his argument only adresses the whole synthetics will wipe out everyone logic, which the Geth have shown is not necessarily the case( Source material is definately a better premise). I realize he mentions this later, saying "The catalyst doesn't deny this, he denies the possibility of lasting peace" However, this is invalid since the starchild makes no mention of the geth conflict whatsoever, and thusly we have no idea what his opinion might be. 

He addresses the rest of the problems with "suspend your disbelief" or "you are wrong because I know more about indoctrination that the game provides". He also doesn't address the inconsistancies with other games or the complete transistion to symbolic narrative from literal narrative and the myriad of other glaring fundamental problems with the narrative. Several of his points I can agree with however. The "killing organics so synthetics don't kill organics argument" almost makes sense, in a somewhat, fatalistic, futile way. Simply because not killing organics would allow created synthetics to advance to a point where the reapers would be unable to combat them. 

Furthermore, baseless claims like: 

Many have complained that in the end, the Crucible simply has no purpose. This is not correct. The Crucible forces the Catalyst to surrender, and it opens the renegade and synthesis options to Shepard. 

are hardly compelling arguments that the crucible wasn't pointless. For example the catalyst could just lie to Shep, tell him it was all for naught, and Shep wouldn't know any better. Cycle continues, catalyst wins. It is not a valid argument, is not built on any premise whatsoever, and heavily damages the authors credibility.

That article does not have a single sound argument on any count, except perhaps the killing organics to save organics point. 

No, nothing you can say will convince me to like the ending. I would like to be able to understand why someone would like the ending, which is why I bother looking at these things. I can understand why certain people like twilight, even if I think it's ridiculous. The ending to Mass Effect 3? Not so much. 

Modifié par Zix13, 15 avril 2012 - 03:49 .

[Zix13]

Hudathan wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

I have yet to see any of these that have even a semi-valid argument, could you shorten the list to the ones that aren't stupid or "I liked it, how dare you not like it" to save me the time of trying to find one?

Not our job to change people's minds. We are only providing a different perspective and proving that this isn't a 'fans vs Bioware' issue and that not everyone hates the ending.

I asked for compelling reads supporting the ending as opposed to " I like it". There are a lot of links in that list and the vast majority were closer to the second category. 

Modifié par Zix13, 15 avril 2012 - 03:50 .

[ardensia]

Zix13 wrote...

No, nothing you can say will convince me to like the ending. I would like to be able to understand why someone would like the ending, which is why I bother looking at these things. I can understand why certain people like twilight, even if I think it's ridiculous. The ending to Mass Effect 3? Not so much. 

Given your above quote, it seems pointless for us to attempt a rebuttle on your dismantling of the sample article presented; it would simply be an argument to try and convince you the endings are likeable, and you have already stated that is not an option within the current realm of consideration. 

However, please clarify; we are attempting to build a consensus. Are you looking for a personal account that doesn't attack other views on the ending as valid, or are you looking for someone to provide proof that the endings are amazing? Or maybe something else completely. You originaly asked for a semi-valid argument. The article fle6isnow provided is, while maybe not 100% proof, a semi-valid argument, and is both very well broken down and provides external links to secondary sources.

But if you're looking for a personal account that doesn't attack other approaches to the ending, then obviously this article isn't going to cut it. Perhaps we could provide you with a different sample from the original post. However, it will still be a personal account, and thus subject to perhaps more opinion than you implied you wanted in both your original statement, and one you have made since.

Modifié par ardensia, 15 avril 2012 - 07:18 .

[HoldTheLine]

I'm sorry if this sounds weird, but I'm new around here so bear with me. Does this thread support that the endings stay open, or do you guys support clarification DLC?

[GuyIncognito]

HoldTheLine wrote...

I'm sorry if this sounds weird, but I'm new around here so bear with me. Does this thread support that the endings stay open, or do you guys support clarification DLC?

Depends on the links you read in the original post.

Some are personal views, some are narrative analysis, some are plot analysis, some are speculation.

[ardensia]

HoldTheLine wrote...

I'm sorry if this sounds weird, but I'm new around here so bear with me. Does this thread support that the endings stay open, or do you guys support clarification DLC?

I do not believe this thread has an official stance on the DLC. Rather, its purpose is to provide references for why some people are content with the ending as it currently stands, regardless of whether these people welcome or abhor the upcoming DLC.

[JamesFaith]

HoldTheLine wrote...

I'm sorry if this sounds weird, but I'm new around here so bear with me. Does this thread support that the endings stay open, or do you guys support clarification DLC?

This thread doesnť support only one thing or another from your question. It's main purpose is making collection of  "pro-enders" opinions and refences to other threads and articles with similar thematic, because thanks to speed of creating new, mostly "anti-end" thread such possitive thread dissappearing really fast from main list and for people, who likes end and come to BSN, it looks now, that absolutely no one liking it too. This thread giving them chance to speak about it or read similar opinions. 

[fle6isnow]

HoldTheLine wrote...

I'm sorry if this sounds weird, but I'm new around here so bear with me. Does this thread support that the endings stay open, or do you guys support clarification DLC?

Yeah, what others said--this thread itself doesn't really take a stance, and I'm pretty much just a librarian of sorts for the links on here.

Personally, though, I'm fine either way. If they keep it open, great, more space for me to headcanon. If not, then I'm treating the EC DLC as "yay, free content!" I'm even ok with a totally different alternate ending, again, from the perspective of "yay, new content!" If I don't like it, I can just uninstall and go back to headcanoning, anyway. =p