40 réponses à ce sujet

[Closet Gamer]

Can be used together to produce what in my experience is the highest DPS build in the game, especially with Grandmaster runed Daggers. The Edge + The Rose's Thorn with full Grandmaster Runes is allowing me to kill yellows/oranges on Nightmare in a matter of seconds.

It seems like a lot of people are arguing Momentum vs Dual Striking, is it known that you can use them together? I'm almost certain that you lose DPS with the slow single weapon backstab.

[Zealuu]

Doesn't Dual Striking prevent you from critting and backstabbing, or is that another tooltip lie?

[Closet Gamer]

It does, but you only backstab with 1 weapon and the attack rate is slower. Simply Dual Striking from behind with a Hero Stamina < 100% - Cast Heroic Offense tactic from your Healer/Mage produces far greater damage as you strike with both weapons as fast as you would backstab, with of course a damage bonus from Dual Striking itself.

[thestreaker]

Have you tried dual striking? It definitely does not double your regular damage as you would expect by hitting every attack with both weapons. Your attacks miss about half the time.

[Skye Kross]

Zealuu wrote...

Doesn't Dual Striking prevent you from critting and backstabbing, or is that another tooltip lie?

you can while stealthed, but just the 1st 2 hits. after that you'll have to disable it

[Gliese]

Try momentum + swift salve.. lol.

[DaeFaron]

Momentum, dueling, and swift salve. True it was on easy, but my rogue tore though an entire bandit mob very quickly.

[IntrinsicPALO]

Maybe someone will make a DPS Doll mod to put in some place, so you can beat on it with certain skills and it'd feedback your DPS over a set duration...it's so annoying that the game doesn't give you a combat log and hard numbers to process to really know what is best.

[Matthew Young CT]

Closet Gamer wrote...

It does, but you only backstab with 1 weapon and the attack rate is slower.

this is completely wrong

Simply Dual Striking from behind with a Hero Stamina < 100% - Cast Heroic Offense tactic from your Healer/Mage produces far greater damage as you strike with both weapons as fast as you would backstab, with of course a damage bonus from Dual Striking itself.

this is completely wrong too

[Sabbatai]

DaeFaron wrote...

Momentum, dueling, and swift salve. True it was on easy, but my rogue tore though an entire bandit mob very quickly.

Yeah this is what I did too, but on normal difficulty.  Still pwned.

[Foolie2]

thestreaker wrote...

Have you tried dual striking? It definitely does not double your regular damage as you would expect by hitting every attack with both weapons. Your attacks miss about half the time.

Keep in mind that the damage numbers that appear overhead get swamped REALLY easily in this mode (especially if you add enchants + runes).  You will often hit and do damage with no number appearing.  Watch the health bars go down and you'll see that you haven't missed though.


I honestly think it's better to do momentum + dual striking with a warrior.  Dual striking removes most of the rogue bonuses (backstab + all the assassin talents) while berserk still gives most of it's benifit.  Plus, while haste and momentum don't stack, haste + momentum + precise striking DO all stack (it must be a wraparound effect of the haste cap).

[Matthew Young CT]

where is the attack speed cap? i havent seen it

[Loetek]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

where is the attack speed cap? i havent seen it

Is there one? I know certain abilities dont work with other certain abilities... Maybe its because they hit a cap?

[Matthew Young CT]

i dont know its hard to figure out. some abilities wipe old abilities of certain types when they're applied, while other stuff just has a cap (like elem resists). hence the question of where it's handled!

[Loetek]

Hmmm. I dont think Haste and Momentum work together and I dont think they shut each other off. I have heard that haste actually makes a Duel Wielder attack slower with momentum running... Weird? I think so.



Maybe there is no attack speed "cap". Maybe Haste and momentum are supposed to stack like Momentum and Swift salves do. But its bugged and shuts momentum off (even though its not shutting it off) and is over riding it even though its actually a slower haste rating. /shrug. Does swift salve stack with Mage Haste?

[Matthew Young CT]

haste and momentum do the exact same thing pretty much

eEffects[0] = EffectModifyProperty(PROPERTY_ATTRIBUTE_ATTACK_SPEED_MODIFIER, MOMENTUM_ANIMATION_SPEED_INCREASE);

vs

eEffects[1] = EffectModifyProperty(PROPERTY_ATTRIBUTE_ATTACK_SPEED_MODIFIER, HASTE_ANIMATION_SPEED_MODIFIER);

guess i need to look if EffectModifyProperty is setting it to a value rather than modifying it. if its just modifying it i cant see why they wouldnt stack unless theres some a cap somewhere...

[Silensfurtim]

http://social.biowar...66/index/223777

[Tonya777]

Or you could do the NOT stupid thing and teach Wynne Haste , have her use it permanantley and get coup de grace and just use dirty fighting/riposte in addition to having your mage(s) capable of para spells and set tactics so that they use them



Then you get backstab dmg with haste (faster than momentum) from any angle constantly

[Matthew Young CT]

momentum is faster than haste

        const float MOMENTUM_ANIMATION_SPEED_INCREASE = -0.3f;
        const float HASTE_ANIMATION_SPEED_MODIFIER = -0.25f;

why do people insist on saying stuff that isnt right

Modifié par Matthew Young CT, 05 décembre 2009 - 01:12 .

[Closet Gamer]

I don't play with backstab characters. I hate the repetitive animation and it looks terrible. My rogue has 36 dex, 30 cunning and rest into strength and wears Massive Armor. How I always prefer to play as the main character so I can unlock any chest but still be a "Warrior."

Backstabbing in this game is the lamest thing I've ever seen. If they actually allow us to do DPS tests in some way I guarentee Momentum + Dual Striking with powerful weapons (Veshialle + Starfang) rivals or beats a Backstabbing Assassin. I've played both and the crit damage from your single mainhand over and over again does not out damage both weapons swinging quickly for non crits. Go try it yourself CT. (It seems you're not considering runes and/or poisons in this testimonial, backstabbing only gives you benefits from the mainhand runes, Dual Striking hits with both, same goes for poisons).

I've heard many say the "high miss rate" of Dual Striking is to simply keep it in check. It hits ~2/3 swings with decent gear. If every blow connected it would put every single ability to shame when combined with a Momentum/Swift Salve/Haste effect.

Momentum + Haste DOES make you swing slower, just an fyi. Not sure about other attack speed increase combos, but things like Rapid Aim + Rapid Shot  + Haste cause weird slow down results as well. So you telling everyone their wrong when you're simply pulling numbers from the toolset means nothing. There are countless threads where people have tested abilities on immobilzed mobs or bosses and received results that directly contradict what the toolset says.

Modifié par Closet Gamer, 05 décembre 2009 - 08:04 .

[Closet Gamer]

Tonya777 wrote...

Or you could do the NOT stupid thing and teach Wynne Haste , have her use it permanantley and get coup de grace and just use dirty fighting/riposte in addition to having your mage(s) capable of para spells and set tactics so that they use them

Then you get backstab dmg with haste (faster than momentum) from any angle constantly

Haste slows down attack speed when Momentum is active. Probably a bug but prevelant nonetheless.

Using special abilities reduces damage done due to resetting of swing timers. You should know this, wasting swing timers to setup a dirty fighting stun (small stun, especially if on Nightmare) is wasted damage.

I play with Morrigan as a healer/supporter, never a damage character. The game is too easy and combat feels lame when you have a Mage just using Cone of Cold/Sleep/Inferno/Storm of the Century, etc.

[Discobird]

The problem with Dual Striking is that it whiffs about 40% of the time, even if your attack is high enough to have 100% hit rate using normal auto-attacks against the target. So Dual Striking is only about a 20% increase in DPS as compared to auto-attacking, which is much less than what you get by backstabbing.

Foolie2 wrote:
Keep in mind that the damage numbers that appear overhead get swamped REALLY easily in this mode (especially if you add enchants + runes). You will often hit and do damage with no number appearing. Watch the health bars go down and you'll see that you haven't missed though.

I've tested this with the "cleanest" conditions I could get (no enchantments or runes, pausing after every swing to let the floaties clear up, engaging only one target at a time with no one else in my party participating). 40% of the time I whiff--no floaty, no "MISS," and no change in the target's health bar.

[Closet Gamer]

I've experienced the rapid health bar depletion of enemies while "misses" are being shown animation wise. I'm almost certain this is what that poster was referring to, the damage being so high and constant that the scrolling text does not display it.

The rate at which mobs were dying (even Bosses) had my wondering what exactly was happening. This was especially true when I used a lot of weapon coatings.

I was fighting a certain large winged fire-breathing creature who can't be named. I was wielding Veshialle and Starfang with Grandmaster elemental runes in each with a few poisons active. I've never seen health bar depletion like it, even with the same gear setup on a backstab Assassin with high cunning.

[Discobird]

If you see the enemy health bar go down while no floaties pop up, that's not a whiff, that's just a regular attack whose floaty is not being displayed because the screen is too crowded already.

Try the conditions I described and you'll see the true whiffs very clearly. Also not to be harsh but your experiences aren't really meaningful to the rest of us without knowing all the details of your build, your gear, your party composition, etc.

[EDIT] I should clarify I'm playin on the PC if that makes any difference

Modifié par Discobird, 05 décembre 2009 - 08:24 .

[Taritu]

Huh. It never occured to me you could put more than one poison on your weapons at a time...