291 réponses à ce sujet

[LucasShark]

From both some fans and bioware in general: why so down on a happy ending to this whole mess?

I honestly don't get it: after 150+ hours of fighting for a noble cause why can't we get a rewarding conclusion?

There's nothing intelectually simple about a happy ending: people with grade-school level creative writing tallent have been confusing dark for intelectual since the first pretencious emo kid penned the first terrible poetry and then claimed "you just don't get it!"

It's not as if ME1 or 2 didn't have their "best" endings: see ME1's save council, squad lives (save one) and citadel races saved ultra-paragon ending.  Or ME2 with a "say screw you to Illusive man, blow collectors into the underverse and make it back out with all crew members present and accounted for".

I got both of those on my completionist run so why shouldn't there be a cherry on top of this sunday? 

ME2 did it right I figure: gave us a paragon/renegade choice, and then had a scaling gradient of good to bad depending on your actions: right down to a critical failure if you were enough of a knob to earn it.  That is good branching story conclusion.

And before someone says "well we need a singular ending to conclude the trilogy for future projects": How in the name of Einstein's deranged ghost does the current ending give us a uniform one?  One has reapers destroyed, one has them controled, and one has all life cross-fused with synthetic components.  Those are some pretty big differences.  It's also not as if Bioware couldn't just declare a cannonal ending the way they did with Kotor 1 and 2.

Modifié par LucasShark, 11 avril 2012 - 03:34 .

[Deuterium_Dawn]

Because dark is automatically deep man.

[kglaser]

I can see the positives in both types of endings. Personally, I don't see anything that would prescribe that we have to get a tragic, sad, death-laden ending to make it "correct". I never assumed my Shep would make it out, but hey...Luke Skywalker lived, right?

[balance5050]

People just want to seem "edgy" or "goth" or "emo". Happy endings are the most satisfying.

[StillOverrated]

Because killing your main character makes any story deep and meaningful. Oh, wait. No, it doesn't.

I mean, it's not like we're demanding a happy ending is the ONLY ENDING EVARRR RAAAAAAAAAAGH ANYTHING ELSE SHOULD BE BURNED AT A STAKE!! We're asking for a possibility of one. You know, like in Dragon Age: Origins; you can agree to Morrigan's ritual and your Warden can run off with whoever he or she romanced and live happily ever after until they're driven insane by the taint. Or you can just kill your Warden and make the story DEEP and MEANINGFUL!!!1one. Having both possibilities didn't ruin the game none, methinks.

Modifié par StillOverrated, 11 avril 2012 - 03:39 .

[Ticonderoga117]

Because if you don't feel like cutting yourself after an epic space opera (like Star Wars and what not) it isn't art, and making art is what BioWare is here to do, dangit!

[LucasShark]

To give another example: V for vendetta (comic or movie) is pretty damn dark, featuring people bieng stabbed to death by a crazy man in a forxian mask and a totalitarian ****-esque state, but even THAT had an uplifting ending to it.

[CronoDragoon]

balance5050 wrote...

People just want to seem "edgy" or "goth" or "emo". Happy endings are the most satisfying.

Well, happy endings that earn it are. There's a lot of happy endings that don't, including all those JRPGs where's there a buttpull at the end that saves everyone. In this case we have a butpull at the end that kinda screws everyone...

Thing is, you do earn it in ME3. You have to watch friends and comrades die, you lose planets to the Reapers, etc etc.

[Ticonderoga117]

LucasShark wrote...

To give another example: V for vendetta (comic or movie) is pretty damn dark, featuring people bieng stabbed to death by a crazy man in a forxian mask and a totalitarian ****-esque state, but even THAT had an uplifting ending to it.

Hell yeah. Just finished the graphic novel for a college class. Really bloody dark but it had a bright-ish, end.
It can be done! Hell, some of the 40K books I read end on a good note and that setting is what defined "grimdark".

[Aweus]

I dont think there is much hostility towards possible "happy" ending. In fact the game may already contain such ending but there is not enough data to be sure about it. I think that many people are just affraid to admit they want one becouse they think they would be branded as cheese loving wussies or something like that. Not like this issue is an only problem tied to current endings but its one of the them. Nevertheless, "happy" ending is on the long list of things that people want implemented in Extended Cut.

[taliefer]

happy or dark ending, i dont care. i want an ending that makes sense.

[Giggles_Manically]

Because many people are neckbeard toting basement dwellers who need a daily supply of grim dark or they will esplode!

But in reality most probably cant tell the difference between a bad dark ending, and a good ending.
Dark does not equal good.

[DragonEffect1710]

I never understood the hate for happy endings. If anything, they're the best endings. The hero gets to live happily and everything is alright for once. What's wrong with those endings? Nothing wrong with sad endings either because it shows that life isn't always rainbows and butterflies but all I'd like is the chance to have a happy ending, a sad ending and a bitter-sweet ending in a series like Mass Effect...

[Zardoc]

Because there seems to be the widespread assumption that a happy ending, given the context of Mass Effect 3, would involve "rainbows and butterflies" and be a "Disney ending". Which is, to be frank, bogus.

Because dark is automatically deep man.

Also this.

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

To give another example: V for vendetta (comic or movie) is pretty damn dark, featuring people bieng stabbed to death by a crazy man in a forxian mask and a totalitarian ****-esque state, but even THAT had an uplifting ending to it.

Hell yeah. Just finished the graphic novel for a college class. Really bloody dark but it had a bright-ish, end. 
It can be done! Hell, some of the 40K books I read end on a good note and that setting is what defined "grimdark".

 

You know, it makes me sad that a universe that runs on grimdark and crazy has endings to it's stories and games that are more uplifting and "happy" than the ME ending.

Modifié par Zardoc, 11 avril 2012 - 03:45 .

[Riion]

Aweus wrote...

I dont think there is much hostility towards possible "happy" ending. In fact the game may already contain such ending but there is not enough data to be sure about it. I think that many people are just affraid to admit they want one becouse they think they would be branded as cheese loving wussies or something like that. Not like this issue is an only problem tied to current endings but its one of the them. Nevertheless, "happy" ending is on the long list of things that people want implemented in Extended Cut.

This. "I'm too cool for happy" mentality... 

[GBGriffin]

Honestly, the general consensus I've read is that people feel the ending shouldn't be happy because people believe that war is brutal, Shepard HAS to die, and that life isn't always fair or happy, and there shouldn't be the option for it to be happy because it would be viewed as the "right" ending.

I strongly disagree with this. While I will admit that war is awful and life isn't fair...I don't need to play games to remind me of this; I play them to forget about those truths because fantasy games, imo, shouldn't have to be governed by real life truths. They're fantasy; anything should be possible, and a hero in a fantasy, even if it might fit an archetype, should never "have" to do anything in a truly original piece.

I wanted a happy ending more than anything, or at least the option for one with a crew/LI reunion. I can live with the rest if that would just happen...I'm hoping it still might.

[JakeOrion]

At VERY least, some type of Paragon, Renegade and neutral ending. Not the same 3 crap ones with either a blue, red, or green explosion.

[EyesOfAmbition2]

balance5050 wrote...

People just want to seem "edgy" or "goth" or "emo". Happy endings are the most satisfying.

To quote Cobb from Inception, "I think positive emotion trumps negative emotion every time. We all yearn for reconciliation, for catharsis."

But of course, it's not so much the denial of a happy ending as it is the denial of the possibility to get a happy ending, or sad ending, or some variation.

Modifié par EyesOfAmbition2, 11 avril 2012 - 03:49 .

[StillOverrated]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Because many people are neckbeard toting basement dwellers who need a daily supply of grim dark or they will esplode!

Tie 'em to a chair and make 'em watch Sin City over and over and over again, then?

[goose2989]

Some people believe that an epic story like Mass Effect warrants the death of the Hero, Protagonist, or Main Character. Shepard is all three in Mass Effect. In many cases, I believe this is true; the problem is that in cases where it makes sense, it also works.

Mass Effect is not meant to be about imposing decisions needlessly. Obviously, Bioware has to make certain decisions about the story and game, but not all of them like:

Who does Shepard romance?
What did Shepard do with the Collector Base?
Did Shepard save the Destiny Ascension?

Many choices can and should be made by the player in Mass Effect, and up until the very end of the last game, we were given that. Forcing Shepard's death not only angered many fans, but it didn't make any sense within the story. Sacrifices must be made, of course. But in no way does that automatically mean Shepard must be killed

[usmack5]

I just don't understand why more options weren't there, both on the dark and positive sides. The endings that were provided were plainly nonsensical. If they were going for a darker tone, Bioware did not get the point across. I didn't turn off my xbox after getting through the end and say "boy, that was one deep, bittersweet ending," I was honestly more along the lines of "THIS was the culmination of the hundreds of hours of gameplay and the years of struggle (for Shepard) at the apex of his finest hour, where he's supposed to save the universe?!? All I can say is this didn't leave me satisfied or moved at all..."

[Nuke1967]

Actually being a Bioware game I thought there would be best of all worlds. Happy,Neutral and Tragic depending on your choices etc. Kinda what people have come to expect in a Bioware product, just having a tragic ending is pretty linear and opposite of what they have done in the past and with this series.

Modifié par Nuke1967, 11 avril 2012 - 03:50 .

[GreenDragon37]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Because dark is automatically deep man.

LOL, apparently this is how the pro-enders see it. They don't believe in choice. Just "artistic integrity!"

[Bekkael]

It makes no sense to me either, OP. I thought the point of roleplay was exploring an entire range of experiences. Some should be tragic, sure, but others should be positive or victorious. A game that offers such a narrow all-roads-lead-to-Rome experience is quite lacking IMHO.

I don't need to look any further than previous games BioWare has made to find satisfying endings. Jade Empire had good and bad endings, based on your alignment, and Dragon Age:Origins had a buffet of endings, from semi-sweet to bitter and tragic. Different endings make replay value extremely high, and to me, that's a good game and well worth my money. ME3 lacks that.