291 réponses à ce sujet

[The Night Mammoth]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

I can't really speak for anyone else, but how many people besides myself played a Bioware game multiple times just to see how the ending would change?

Do you want to know how many save files I have over the two previous games because of this? 

[EvilChani]

tractrpl wrote...

Look, one guy going against an entire fleet of super-advanced aliens...It's not even realistic that he could actually WIN, much less survive.

Bull****. First of all, Shepard is not alone...that's one of the damned points of the game! You spend hours upon hours building up relationships with your squad and, though them, their corresponding groups. ME2 reflected this perfectly - if you didn't do the quests for your squadmates and chose the wrong people to execute certain portions of "the plan", they died...and so did your Shepard, if it was bad enough. Be a ****ty, non-caring leader, get a ****ty ending. If you want your crew to survive, and if you want to survive, you have to work for it.

There is absolutely no reason ME3 couldn't have gone a similar route (and don't hand me this crap that it did, since it is based on you killing Wrex and playing multiplayer to build up your readiness level - multiplayer should have no effect whatsoever on the single player ending, end of fricking story). Instead, Casey Hudson and his little team of emo whatckjobs decided they wanted to go the depressing route and smack the players in the gut with a 2x4 for the hell of it because they are locked into the nimrod POV that "deep ending" means everything sucks at the end.

I'm sick to death of these Hollyweird artsy fartsy schmucks shoving depressing garbage down our throats and calling it "deep". It's not deep, it's depressing, pointless, and stupid, and it makes me want to avoid anything said people do from now on. Real life has enough of that ****...we should be able to achieve a happy ending in a goddamned game we spend hundreds of hours playing so we walk away feeling good when it's all done and actually want to play their game again! Leave us feeling like crap and the next thing they put out can sit on the damned shelves, as far as I'm concerned. And yes, I'm talking about YOU, Dragon Age, which will probably end with your character having to be repeatedly ass raped by dragons before you "become one" with the dragon and destroy the whole damned human race in the process...oh, and your love interest craps out a baby dragon/human hybrid and dies in the process while spitting in your face. Bah!

[Shahadem]

A happy ending doesn't exclude suffering, but a happy ending does mean that all the suffering mustn't be for naught.

[The Mercenary55]

I agree, there should of been a variation of endings including 1 happy ending.

Throughout all three games were fighting for (yes the galaxy) but also for the friends we've made and grown to love. To see shepard finally able loosen up a little and too see him with those friends that he has fought so hard to save.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Bottom line: they wanted to kill off Shepard so there absolutely would be no more demand for a future game with Shepard as the main character.

* they didn't want to simply make the next game after Shepard died of natural causes.

* they have now with these three endings boxed themselves into the canon of "there is no future only prequels" because they don't want to come up with a new boogie man -- well how can anyone meet the standard of the reapers? but do they really have to? that's a problem when you do something of that magnitude. Prequels usually suck because you know how they end - Halo Reach was an exception.

* Frodo survives LOTR, but is that a happy ending? No.

[EvilChani]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

I can't really speak for anyone else, but how many people besides myself played a Bioware game multiple times just to see how the ending would change?

I did it with every Bioware game I played, which began with KOTOR. I even bought BG after the fact because I thought Bioware was so awesome, and I loved BG. Now? Who the hell cares? There's no point in playing ME3 because you get the same horrible crap no matter what you do. It's depressing and it has ruined the entire trilogy for me now. After all, what's the point in playing ME1 and ME2 again when I know it all ends in one big ****storm of depression and hopelessness? No thanks. A friend of mine (who has refused to buy ME3, btw!) was arguing it with me one night until I gave him this analogy: say you love riding a particular rollercoaster at Six Flags. It's an awesome ride, you've ridden it ten times in one day, but the thing wasn't quite finished yet (instead of getting to an "end", you went backwards through the loop-de-loops and such, while the engineers worked their collective asses off to build the last third of the coaster so you could ride it all the way through). They finish the ending of the rollercoaster and it ends by throwing your ass out of it at its highest point and you splatter all over the ground in little bloody pieces. Even if you ignore the end and can ride the first 2/3 front and reverse, do you really ever gonna want to get on the thing again once you find out what those sadistic bastards had planned for you all along? 

[psrz]

I think it's just a posturing... "oh, I'm so mature I can appreciate the unhappy ending, it's realistic and the others who don't like it are crybaby whiners blah blah" ...

But the thing is, this is a game. A product from a gaming company, entertainment industry. I play these kind of games to have fun. To be the hero who overcomes all obstacles, beats all the enemies and gets the chick. It's really that simple for me. Playing a game to consistently get a kick in the groin everytime ? Not my idea of fun...
I can't fathom how some people at BW thought that would great for a game....

[savionen]

Honestly I think they just ran out of time. Anything they say to the contrary is just a deflection.

[EvilChani]

Ryoten wrote...

For people who want "dark". Just step outside your house and push someone infront of a car. You will see lots of "dark and profound" just in doing that.

No, no, no! I'm sure what you meant was...

For the people who want "dark", just step outside your house and jump in front of an 18-wheeler that's going at least 65 mph. Then you can be surrounded in darkness and finally be happy.  

[Rudy Lis]

MissNet wrote...

I can imagine my Shepard is alive with her friend .. sitting on the beach.. Or years later they will have a drink in the bar on Omega and talk about old times... Or i can imagine how I reunite with my LI... And may be some little medal ceremony. 
I can imagine quarians on the Rannoch, builing their new homes. I see krogan rebuild their ancient city and turian on the Palaven.

So, yes, short answer is yes, it's possible. But it's not my point. If you are fine with current ending, i doubt anything i say will cange your mind, right? 
And besides, my grandfather' friends are not stranded on some jungle planet several dozens light years far away. 

Sorry for interrupting, but I think Shepard and Team will do what our ancestors done after WW2 - they will bury the dead and rebuild their homeland. Beach and bars will be later.

And regarding FTL - if getting from, say Berlin to middle of Siberia is not that easy now (ignoring airplanes), I doubt that could be easy back in 1945.

[Shahadem]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Bottom line: they wanted to kill off Shepard so there absolutely would be no more demand for a future game with Shepard as the main character.

* they didn't want to simply make the next game after Shepard died of natural causes.

* they have now with these three endings boxed themselves into the canon of "there is no future only prequels" because they don't want to come up with a new boogie man -- well how can anyone meet the standard of the reapers? but do they really have to? that's a problem when you do something of that magnitude. Prequels usually suck because you know how they end - Halo Reach was an exception.

* Frodo survives LOTR, but is that a happy ending? No.

The Yogg could be the villains of the future.

[hoorayforicecream]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

What was the point of curing the Genophage? Wrex and majority of the krogans are stranded on Sol. What was the point of getting peace between the Geth and Quarians? Majority are stuck in Sol. What was the point of getting the krogan and turrians to work together? They all wind up in Sol anyways.

FTL travel still works. What used to take hours will take days or weeks instead. The Quarians still have their liveships that they use to grow food anyway, and other military warships typically carry enough supplies for weeks at a time. If Shepard talked to EDI about transporting the krogan earlier in the game, Shepard has her make the necessary arrangements to provide for krogan food as well.

Yeah, not hours, but years, if it's even possible. They have to hop between systems. As soon as there's a gap that takes more than 50 hours to traverse, they're screwed. 

We've already been told that there are large chunks of the Citadel that survived the damage. The Citadel employed special discharging devices for ships. It wouldn't be a surprise if they were able to repurpose such devices for portable use. If only they had gathered the smartest scientists, engineers and tech experts in the galaxy in one place so that they could work out a way to solve this problem...

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 11 avril 2012 - 07:33 .

[Silasqtx]

It should be there. If we manage to do a perfect game, we have the right to see the priiiiiiiize.

[Grimwick]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

What was the point of curing the Genophage? Wrex and majority of the krogans are stranded on Sol. What was the point of getting peace between the Geth and Quarians? Majority are stuck in Sol. What was the point of getting the krogan and turrians to work together? They all wind up in Sol anyways.

FTL travel still works. What used to take hours will take days or weeks instead. The Quarians still have their liveships that they use to grow food anyway, and other military warships typically carry enough supplies for weeks at a time. If Shepard talked to EDI about transporting the krogan earlier in the game, Shepard has her make the necessary arrangements to provide for krogan food as well.

Yeah, not hours, but years, if it's even possible. They have to hop between systems. As soon as there's a gap that takes more than 50 hours to traverse, they're screwed. 

We've already been told that there are large chunks of the Citadel that survived the damage. The Citadel employed special discharging devices for ships. It wouldn't be a surprise if they were able to repurpose such devices for portable use. If only they had gathered the smartest scientists, engineers and tech experts in the galaxy in one place so that they could work out a way to solve this problem...

That is far too much speculation needed for an ending that was supposed to provide 'closure'.

[UnstableMongoose]

Goroxx wrote...

While my views regarding Shepard are different from yours, this is by far the BEST reasoning I've read throughout this whole ending upheaval regarding the necessity of Shepard's death.  Really makes me see the other side of the coin.

Because of the nature of of the game, I don't see how both sides can exist.  It shouldn't be an "either/or" proposition...it should be a "both/and".  The option should be there for people like me who wish for the survival and "happy end; it should also be there for those who who see Shepard's sacrifice as a trancendent triumph.  

Here's hoping the Extended Cut DLC addresses the desires of all the fans, because it can if they wish it to.

Thank you, and I, for one, agree with you on the fact that people who see it differently should be given an alternate ending. I would, however, ask you to be patient with BioWare on this one. If they see Shepard's story as I see it, writing a traditional happy ending would have been like a knife to the gut for them, and their perspective on Shepard could quite possibly have blinded them to the fact that their fanbase is now so large that it is very difficult to account for everyone's opinion when writing for these games.

Myself, I like that only the endings that were there at launch where there at launch--if there was a "good" ending that you could metagame your way into, my tendancy to "play to win" and amass the most powerful fleet possible would have resulted in me never seeing the beautiful end that was written.

But I do, however, think that part of the "clarification" DLC that they're doing could result in an awesome happy ending depending on how BW plays it, and I hope all of you get it eventually--after all, we're all dedicated BioWare fans or we wouldn't be on these boards.

Modifié par UnstableMongoose, 11 avril 2012 - 07:44 .

[The Night Mammoth]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

What was the point of curing the Genophage? Wrex and majority of the krogans are stranded on Sol. What was the point of getting peace between the Geth and Quarians? Majority are stuck in Sol. What was the point of getting the krogan and turrians to work together? They all wind up in Sol anyways.

FTL travel still works. What used to take hours will take days or weeks instead. The Quarians still have their liveships that they use to grow food anyway, and other military warships typically carry enough supplies for weeks at a time. If Shepard talked to EDI about transporting the krogan earlier in the game, Shepard has her make the necessary arrangements to provide for krogan food as well.

Yeah, not hours, but years, if it's even possible. They have to hop between systems. As soon as there's a gap that takes more than 50 hours to traverse, they're screwed. 

We've already been told that there are large chunks of the Citadel that survived the damage. The Citadel employed special discharging devices for ships. It wouldn't be a surprise if they were able to repurpose such devices for portable use.

If it were that simple every ship would use them already. 

It's probably Reaper tech that they have little how it works. 

Even so, in the event that a trip is actually possilbe, they still need to navigate their way there and make sure they don't encounter distances that are too large for them to cross due to fuel constraints. Unless they somehow manage to repurpose some Reaper tech and avoid indoctrination, the trip is still going to take years. I don't see what's happy about that. 

If only they had gathered the smartest scientists, engineers and tech experts in the galaxy in one place so that they could work out a way to solve this problem...

If only most of them weren't dead, they had the resources, and didn't have any more pressing concerns......

[Richard 060]

What I don't get is the notion that it's bad to have a 'perfect' version available for those who want one, as well as an amazingly disastrous one. It's a bit pathetic to have several shades of 'grey', ambiguous, maudlin for the endings, rather than the full gamut we could have.

After all, nothing spells 'replay value' more than the chance to go for the full 'medal ceremony' ending with 100% completion required - or to take the 'road less travelled', and sabotage everything to deliberately wind up with an ending where the Reapers conquer the entire galaxy. That was really fun to do in ME2, and there's so much potential for a bigger version of that in ME3 that to not have that scope feels likea massive waste.


In any case, I've posted this before, but since everything the Catalyst is either a wild assumption or patently incorrect, we should at least have a dialogue option where we tell him he's full of ****, then blow the place sky-high. And maybe a happy-ish ending afterwards.


Something like this:






Click link to enbiggen!

[Qutayba]

The issue for me isn't happy/unhappy but meaningful/meaningless. Mordin's death was a meaningful death. You could argue that having the Shroud damaged by the Reaper was just a device to guarantee his death, but we experience something from the essence of Mordin in those moments. We see what he's made of, and it's beautiful and meaningful. It's still sad, though.

Sacrifice was one of the dominant motifs of ME3, so I was pretty much prepared from the beginning for Shep dying at the end. That doesn't mean he/she HAS to die, but I think the possibility of that happening adds to the tension of the story.

Now, in my opinion, Shep's death isn't presented as meaningful or even logical. What is the causal connection between diving into a beam of light and fusing organic and synthetic life? Why not push a button? There's not even an explanatory device like the Reaper damaging the Shroud in Mordin's death scene. And then the consequences of Shep's sacrifice are very vague and/or horrifying (and many of us logically assumed the explosion of the relays amounted galactic genocide - we now know that wasn't BioWare's intention, but we had no other evidence to work with.).

Sometimes happy endings can be meaningless, too, if they don't flow from the choices and characters in the story. Dei ex machina typically lead to a happy ending, after all, and they're generally unsatisfying to a modern audience.

Both "dark for the sake of dark" and "happy for the sake of happy" are lazy choices. If you've built up the narrative properly, there are some chains of cause and effect that lead to the ending - it doesn't make the ending inevitable, but it does make the ending fit with the story overall. In Romeo and Juliet both end up dying, but in West Side Story only one dies, and in Look Who's Coming to Dinner, no one dies. But in all three cases, the endings emerge from the logic and setting of the story.

[Grasich]

Richard 060 wrote...

What I don't get is the notion that it's bad to have a 'perfect' version available for those who want one, as well as an amazingly disastrous one. It's a bit pathetic to have several shades of 'grey', ambiguous, maudlin for the endings, rather than the full gamut we could have.

After all, nothing spells 'replay value' more than the chance to go for the full 'medal ceremony' ending with 100% completion required - or to take the 'road less travelled', and sabotage everything to deliberately wind up with an ending where the Reapers conquer the entire galaxy. That was really fun to do in ME2, and there's so much potential for a bigger version of that in ME3 that to not have that scope feels likea massive waste.


In any case, I've posted this before, but since everything the Catalyst is either a wild assumption or patently incorrect, we should at least have a dialogue option where we tell him he's full of ****, then blow the place sky-high. And maybe a happy-ish ending afterwards.


Something like this:






Click link to enbiggen!

rofl This is great.

[Ecrulis]

Richard 060 wrote...

What I don't get is the notion that it's bad to have a 'perfect' version available for those who want one, as well as an amazingly disastrous one. It's a bit pathetic to have several shades of 'grey', ambiguous, maudlin for the endings, rather than the full gamut we could have.

After all, nothing spells 'replay value' more than the chance to go for the full 'medal ceremony' ending with 100% completion required - or to take the 'road less travelled', and sabotage everything to deliberately wind up with an ending where the Reapers conquer the entire galaxy. That was really fun to do in ME2, and there's so much potential for a bigger version of that in ME3 that to not have that scope feels likea massive waste.


In any case, I've posted this before, but since everything the Catalyst is either a wild assumption or patently incorrect, we should at least have a dialogue option where we tell him he's full of ****, then blow the place sky-high. And maybe a happy-ish ending afterwards.


Something like this:






Click link to enbiggen!

This is amazing XD and it made me laugh out loud at work

[Vox Draco]

Ecrulis wrote...

This is amazing XD and it made me laugh out loud at work

*sighs* I really want to say "I knew it" in the end...and I want a "let's have pizza" End...You read this, bioware? It's not so complicated to please the likes of me! And I'll even buy a DLC or whatever if you do it right this time, promised!

[Grasich]

Vox Draco wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

This is amazing XD and it made me laugh out loud at work

*sighs* I really want to say "I knew it" in the end...and I want a "let's have pizza" End...You read this, bioware? It's not so complicated to please the likes of me! And I'll even buy a DLC or whatever if you do it right this time, promised!

Me too.

[UndeadTRex]

Happy...ending? Oh! You mean those things that children have in their stories. No, sorry that just won't work. You have to understand, only dark and depressing endings are deep and artistic. It's simply fact.

[Reorte]

Vox Draco wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

This is amazing XD and it made me laugh out loud at work

*sighs* I really want to say "I knew it" in the end...and I want a "let's have pizza" End...You read this, bioware? It's not so complicated to please the likes of me! And I'll even buy a DLC or whatever if you do it right this time, promised!

But but but... I romanced Tali, I can't have pizza with her  It's still a depressing ending!