291 réponses à ce sujet

[The Night Mammoth]

UnstableMongoose wrote...

To the OP:

My contention is that a "happy" ending, as you seem to be defining it isn't a satisfying conclusion. Throughout the course of the Mass Effect series, Commander Shepard sacrifices very little. In fact, Shepard becomes nothing if not more powerful, influential, and well-connected. While Shepard increases in stature, thousands of around him, dozens of whom are named characters, die protecting him from his fate over and over again.

Essentially, everyone around Commander Shepard is putting everything on the line to stop the Reapers. It's even a distinct possibility that Conrad Verner, sidekick joke character, will take a bullet to save Commander Shepard from a Cerberus agent.

A Commander Shepard who doesn't make the ultimate sacrifice to save humanity changes from a hero to a lucky bastard. The narrative of Commander Shepard's willingness to risk and lose everything for the cause of life itself is cheapened by the Commander surviving.

He didn't die, so he doesn't deserve to survive.

Interesting. 

I would argue that he strives and works more than anyone to defeat the Reapers, and that if he does so whilst saving this cycle (since that was his goal, and mine), that survival would be a just reward. 

The ending as it exists is not a sad ending. The shackles of the Mass Relays, used for millions of years by the Reapers to control the development of life, are shattered.

They're only shackles if the Reapers exist. 

Reaper's are removed, they're no longer shackles, just tools. 

Commander Shepard's heroic sacrifices end the Reaper threat. Peace exists between nations that were thought to be locked in eternal conflict. And all of it is because of the actions of Commander Shepard. It is not a "sad" ending that Commander Shepard died in the culmination of his efforts to save the galaxy. It is a "happy" one, because all of the hard choices that he made, all the sacrifices of his friends and comrades, and the unflinching determination that he showed are all rewarded with the greatest reward possible.

Countless trillions of lives will live on, free from the daunting specter of being harvested that has overshadowed the galaxy for eons. Shepard saved all of them. More lives than could ever be counted are owed to the valiant efforts of the Normandy's crew. And that is what a true "happy" ending is--not one that ignores the suffering and death that exists in the universe, but one that transcends it.

Not why Shepard fought, not why I played Mass Effect. I see nothing happy in centuries of suffering that will occur now that the Mass Relays have been destroyed. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 11 avril 2012 - 04:19 .

[Legion is Skynet]

I wouldn't take issue with a happy ending, as long as it was handled correctly and in the context of the larger story. What I don't think is possible is relaxing on the beach, drinking a beer with Garrus while little blue babies play in the sand. Shepard surviving and reuniting with his/her LI? The Relays surviving? I could see that, but if they made it an outright "Well, job's done! All's well that ends well!" that would make it cheap and hollow.

No matter how the MacGuffin works, by the time they fire it the galaxy is in pretty damned bad shape. Shepard and his/her friends represent more than just "those folks who saved the day"; a lot of them are EXTREMELY important cultural figures. It's mentioned that Garrus isn't that far removed from Primarch (first conversation Shepard has with him on the Normandy). Tali is an Admiral. Liara is the Shadow Broker. Ashley/Kaiden is a Council SPECTRE. Wrex is the leader of the Krogan, etc.

And of course, Shepard is the person who united the entire galaxy and saved them all. These are not a group of folks who just get to walk off into the sunset and blissfully ignore the MASSIVE problems that exist in the galaxy. A reconstruction effort will need to get underway, new leadership will need to be assembled. There will be panic, confusion, crime, disease, etc. to deal with.

All I'm saying is that the crew of the Normandy might survive, but it would be completely against character for all of them to just turn their back and walk into the sunset after that. There's still work to be done.

[Heather Cline]

I want a happy ending as an option. This is what many in the retake movement want. It's not a Disney ending, it's not a sun shine and rainbows ending that everyone seems to think. Many of us have described that the happy ending we want is just to have Shepard survive, meet up with LI and crew and live out the rest of her/his life with said LI and helping to rebuild for the future. That is the kind of happyish ending we want.

It's not a Disney ending with sunshine and rainbows, it's not a super sing song ending. It's a ending that Shepard after facing impossible odds time and time again comes through victorious. Comes through damaged, hurt, but alive. Possibly permanently maimed with how badly she/he got hit by that beam from Harbinger. Still the fact is she/he survived and deserves a little happiness.

Then there are the other possible endings ranging from dark as hell to varying shades of grey in the middle leading up to that happy ending. It should be our choice. It shouldn't be determined by the Pro-enders or the crap ending that Bioware put out. It should be determined as was stated in interviews by our choices throughout the entire trilogy.

So yeah anti-happy ending people really need a reality check.

[Heather Cline]

Legion is Skynet wrote...

I wouldn't take issue with a happy ending, as long as it was handled correctly and in the context of the larger story. What I don't think is possible is relaxing on the beach, drinking a beer with Garrus while little blue babies play in the sand. Shepard surviving and reuniting with his/her LI? The Relays surviving? I could see that, but if they made it an outright "Well, job's done! All's well that ends well!" that would make it cheap and hollow.

No matter how the MacGuffin works, by the time they fire it the galaxy is in pretty damned bad shape. Shepard and his/her friends represent more than just "those folks who saved the day"; a lot of them are EXTREMELY important cultural figures. It's mentioned that Garrus isn't that far removed from Primarch (first conversation Shepard has with him on the Normandy). Tali is an Admiral. Liara is the Shadow Broker. Ashley/Kaiden is a Council SPECTRE. Wrex is the leader of the Krogan, etc.

And of course, Shepard is the person who united the entire galaxy and saved them all. These are not a group of folks who just get to walk off into the sunset and blissfully ignore the MASSIVE problems that exist in the galaxy. A reconstruction effort will need to get underway, new leadership will need to be assembled. There will be panic, confusion, crime, disease, etc. to deal with.

All I'm saying is that the crew of the Normandy might survive, but it would be completely against character for all of them to just turn their back and walk into the sunset after that. There's still work to be done.

I agree with most of this post, but I disagree about Shepard not having children. She/He should have the option to have kids with her/his LI if they can have children or adopt while helping rebuild. While trying to get the galaxy back into shape as much as possible. Yes they will help rebuild, yes they will work to make things better and get order restored, but the crew et al should also have the option to have kids.

Now I'm not saying that they should be on a beach and drinking mai tai's but they should be allowed to have kids.

[Lenimph]

Heather Cline wrote...

I want a happy ending as an option. This is what many in the retake movement want. It's not a Disney ending, it's not a sun shine and rainbows ending that everyone seems to think. Many of us have described that the happy ending we want is just to have Shepard survive, meet up with LI and crew and live out the rest of her/his life with said LI and helping to rebuild for the future. That is the kind of happyish ending we want.

It's not a Disney ending with sunshine and rainbows, it's not a super sing song ending. It's a ending that Shepard after facing impossible odds time and time again comes through victorious. Comes through damaged, hurt, but alive. Possibly permanently maimed with how badly she/he got hit by that beam from Harbinger. Still the fact is she/he survived and deserves a little happiness.

Then there are the other possible endings ranging from dark as hell to varying shades of grey in the middle leading up to that happy ending. It should be our choice. It shouldn't be determined by the Pro-enders or the crap ending that Bioware put out. It should be determined as was stated in interviews by our choices throughout the entire trilogy.

So yeah anti-happy ending people really need a reality check.

Isn't this very much possible with one of the current endings... 

[Legion is Skynet]

Heather Cline wrote...

I agree with most of this post, but I disagree about Shepard not having children. She/He should have the option to have kids with her/his LI if they can have children or adopt while helping rebuild. While trying to get the galaxy back into shape as much as possible. Yes they will help rebuild, yes they will work to make things better and get order restored, but the crew et al should also have the option to have kids.

Now I'm not saying that they should be on a beach and drinking mai tai's but they should be allowed to have kids.

Absolutely. I see no issue with that. I personally wouldn't want kids in that context (not a lot of time to raise a child when you're rebuilding the galaxy/working out treaties/providing relief to cut-off planets), but I don't think it would ruin the ending either. As I said, just as long as it's not over the top and it stays true to the characters and the overall story.

[ObserverStatus]

ME3's ending should be full of rainbows and unicorns like Diablo 3.

[Rogue Unit]

Because if anyone who rightfully dislikes the ****ty ending ME3 provides, mentions a happy ending, their opposers will retort "lol u just want a disney moo-v lmao".

[TJX2045]

ReggarBlane wrote...

There is no happy ending to all-out war against a superior force.

There are only less-unhappy endings to all-out war against a superior force.

Which is Bittersweet, and regarding Mass Effect 3 sweet was no where to be found.

Rogue Unit wrote...

Because if anyone who rightfully dislikes the ****ty ending ME3 provides, mentions a happy ending, their opposers will retort "lol u just want a disney moo-v lmao".

And clearly Disney is actually doing something right since all their movies sell ridiculously well.

My defense of giving both happy and bad/emo endings (for people who just can't stand the idea of a happy ending for people who want it) is Heavy Rain.  It gave you a bittersweet ending due to some of the losses or even gave you an idealistic happy ending where everyone except the killer survives.  Then it gave you the downright horrible ones where everyone except the killer dies.

Modifié par TJX2045, 11 avril 2012 - 05:05 .

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

Dragon Age: Origins had the option for a happy ending, and nobody thought that was dumbed down or out of place. In fact, it seems to be the accepted cannon ending.

[TJX2045]

Gyroscopic_Trout wrote...

Dragon Age: Origins had the option for a happy ending, and nobody thought that was dumbed down or out of place. In fact, it seems to be the accepted cannon ending.

It was for me.  Hell, it was amazing since you could talk to your LI and all your party members for the most part and major characters.

Ugh, it makes me want to go back and play DAO now.

[NM_Che56]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Because dark is automatically deep man.

Agreed

[NM_Che56]

Honestly, it would be refreshing to have the option of having a "HELL YEAH, WE JUST KICKED ASS AND LIVED TO TELL THE TALE". In all sincerity, we get a good dose of bitter sweet throughout the entire game.

Krogan can be doomed to extinction or Mordin commits the ultimate in altruisic self sacrifice.
Thane goes down a hero and dies a good death.
Legion say "Keehla se'lai" to Tali as he sacrifices his platform for the benefit of the Geth.
Anderson's last words are that he's proud of you.


Those are just some of the moments you can get if everything goes RIGHT, so to speak. Having a '..and they lived happily ever after' would be welcomed. But even if that is too Pixar for some of you, then maybe just leave it at "most of us lived and we will rebuild. It sucks that _______died, but their deaths are not in vain".

[Silvair]

The problem is I keep hearing people say they want a good ending to REPLACE the current bad ending.  NO>

I want there to be both a good ending, AND a bad ending.  Like in Mass Effect 2, where the worst ending is...everyone dies, like we have now in ME3.

[Unfallen_Satan]

You can believe in a happy ending if you want. We don't want a canon vanilla ending that takes away the interpretation for other not so "happy" endings.

[TJX2045]

Unfallen_Satan wrote...

You can believe in a happy ending if you want. We don't want a canon vanilla ending that takes away the interpretation for other not so "happy" endings.

But the thing is, people headcanon the endings they like anyways.  Regardless of what Bioware considered the "canon" ending, especially since they are implying Synthesis is the canon, I headcanoned "Destroy" as my perfect ending, even though I was immensely frustrated after the choice.

Modifié par TJX2045, 11 avril 2012 - 05:23 .

[NM_Che56]

Unfallen_Satan wrote...

You can believe in a happy ending if you want. We don't want a canon vanilla ending that takes away the interpretation for other not so "happy" endings.

"We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon"

- Casey Hudson

[Silvair]

Not to mention, so many people (bioware included) don't understand the difference between a Bittersweet, and a Hollow Victory.

Bittersweet is when the price was heavy, but still worth it.

Hollow is when the price was too high, so even if you "win", you still lose.

The former is what they intended, the latter is what we got.

[Heather Cline]

Lenimph wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...

I want a happy ending as an option. This is what many in the retake movement want. It's not a Disney ending, it's not a sun shine and rainbows ending that everyone seems to think. Many of us have described that the happy ending we want is just to have Shepard survive, meet up with LI and crew and live out the rest of her/his life with said LI and helping to rebuild for the future. That is the kind of happyish ending we want.

It's not a Disney ending with sunshine and rainbows, it's not a super sing song ending. It's a ending that Shepard after facing impossible odds time and time again comes through victorious. Comes through damaged, hurt, but alive. Possibly permanently maimed with how badly she/he got hit by that beam from Harbinger. Still the fact is she/he survived and deserves a little happiness.

Then there are the other possible endings ranging from dark as hell to varying shades of grey in the middle leading up to that happy ending. It should be our choice. It shouldn't be determined by the Pro-enders or the crap ending that Bioware put out. It should be determined as was stated in interviews by our choices throughout the entire trilogy.

So yeah anti-happy ending people really need a reality check.

Isn't this very much possible with one of the current endings... 

The problem with the current way the game ends is that the fact is Shepard's Character is assassinated. She/He fails to argue against the catalyst AI child. Shepard is railroaded into the color choice ending. Shepard has no choice of an option 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 or 8. The problem is NONE of our choices matter. The only ending with this possible happyish ending is the Destroy option and if you have enough EMS. If you take control or synth you die no matter what. And if you don't have enough EMS you die in Destroy too.

The current ending of the game does not reflect player choice, it does not reflect who Shepard is as a character. In fact it's a complete cop out. It shouldn't be color coded, it shouldn't be based on EMS. It should be based on the decisions made throughout the game. Not this railroad into choose your death unless you have enough EMS to survive the destruction of the energy conduit you shoot at.

[Little Princess Peach]

I would love a happy ending but hey it's not Walt Disney

[Rudy Lis]

Master Che wrote...

"We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon"

- Casey Hudson

Well, now their ending make sense: regardless of chosen flavour, ending blends into interesting mix. You choose green? No problem - Printed circuit board just fell-off in couple of years. Control? Someone still kills geth and all synthetics. No problem. "Generic future where choices matters".

Sarcasm may dwell somewhere above.

[NM_Che56]

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

I would love a happy ending but hey it's not Walt Disney

The argument is that Walt Disney is only allowed to make happy endings?

[Kilshrek]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Because dark is automatically deep man.

Because nothing says this story is great better than having the protagonist make the ultimate sacrifice. And then having stuff blow up to balance things.

Martyrdom is so cool, y'know?

[Heather Cline]

Master Che wrote...

Unfallen_Satan wrote...

You can believe in a happy ending if you want. We don't want a canon vanilla ending that takes away the interpretation for other not so "happy" endings.

"We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon"

- Casey Hudson

Exactly this. Casey Hudson stated that there is never a canon ending to any of the games. They stated this time and time again.

Look at Dragon Age Origins, no canon ending. Look at Dragon Age Awakenings, if your warden died you play a different warden from a different country. Look at Dragon Age 2, if you imported a game where your warden died it makes references to that warden.

There is NO canon ending. So those who think a happy ending is canon please look at what BioWare has stated in the past.

Modifié par Heather Cline, 11 avril 2012 - 05:45 .

[Vox Draco]

TJX2045 wrote...

Gyroscopic_Trout wrote...

Dragon Age: Origins had the option for a happy ending, and nobody thought that was dumbed down or out of place. In fact, it seems to be the accepted cannon ending.

It was for me.  Hell, it was amazing since you could talk to your LI and all your party members for the most part and major characters.

Ugh, it makes me want to go back and play DAO now.

Exactly! My favorite warden was a female cousland in love with Alistair, and I toiled my butt off to make her his queen in the end and all this...but concerning the ritual...it WAS not easy to follow this way, and I felt just as bad as my warden when I propsed it to Alistair...and later I imagined some nice quarrels between the two, or awkward/embarressed moments during their marriage...or did they just try to ignore it forever? Who knows, but, though not earth-shattering, it was something to make you think a little....

But still, it was way better than sacrifing my warden oder the one she loved...there was a different option, a way out, though not a perfect one...

That's what I want with ME3...and reading some of the inofficial news/interviews from PAX I have a little hope restored...

Blue Control Ending: Shepard controls the Reapers as some new form of bodyless catalyst, ad with their "help" the galaxy might propser again much quicker, but Shepard is no more...for all the wannabe-martyrs out there...

Red Destroy Ending: Reaper are gone, so are Mass Relays...possible to rebuild them or use Reaper-tech to enhance FTL-Drives...but it will take time, and suffering...BUT in this Ending they have Shepard who survived...somehow...and will be able to see her love and friends again. Together they might put a bright spot back into the galaxy...A "happy end" with the necessary dark touch after galaxy-wide war...I could live ith that, and I am sure that most people would take this route, if properly explained and all...
Green Ending: Don't wanna go there, 'tis a silly place...