291 réponses à ce sujet

[cachx]

From the start, I knew there was not going to be a lollypops and rainbows ending. One thing that I think ME3 nailed perfectly was the impending sense of doom that came with the war against an unstoppable enemy. The price was going to be too high, and I think a "happy ending" would have nullified that.

I did find the very last scene uplifting, the cycle is broken, and the races of the universe are free.

The real problem here is that people are too attached to the characters and feel dissapointed that they didn't get closure (happy or otherwise).

[NM_Che56]

Heather Cline wrote...

Master Che wrote...

Unfallen_Satan wrote...

You can believe in a happy ending if you want. We don't want a canon vanilla ending that takes away the interpretation for other not so "happy" endings.

"We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon"

- Casey Hudson

Exactly this. Casey Hudson stated that there is never a cannon ending to any of the games. They stated this time and time again.

Look at Dragon Age Origins, no canon ending. Look at Dragon Age Awakenings, if your warden died you play a different warden from a different country. Look at Dragon Age 2, if you imported a game where your warden died it makes references to that warden.

There is NO canon ending. So those who think a happy ending is canon please look at what BioWare has stated in the past.

WRONG, there is a cannon ending!

[Rudy Lis]

Master Che wrote...


WRONG, there is a cannon ending!

That's cannon beginning. Cannon ending on another side.

[Ecrulis]

The viewpoint that "tragic" is a superior form of literature is a pretty long-standing belief. See Aristotle's Poetics, for example. You also see in movie and tv awards, where dramas almost uniformly beat comedies. 

I do agree, on some level, that a well-done tragedy, invoking the full range of pity, rage, and sadness, is superior to a bubble-gum happy ending on some levels However, a poorly done tragedy is a literary disaster. Additionally, those conventions apply to movies, plays, etc. .Video games ARE DIFFERENT. The best RPGs give you the chance to have a happy, sad, tragic, or disconcerting ending in the same game. 

It's one of the arguments that I think has been missing from the discussion. Even if ME3 endings were good (they're not, they're total crap), why should those be the only emotions you feel at the end? I don't understand why there can't be an ending where Shepherd fails horribly and you see Anderson in a Collector's tube or an ending that is a empowering as the Star Wars medal ceremony. Sure, a movie can't have multiple ending, changing it from a comedy to a tragedy. But, a Video game can! 

This is exactly how I feel, especially with Bioware, it seems to me its much less about us wanting a happy ending as us wanting the possibility of a happy ending (relatively speaking considering the state of the galaxy) as well as the full range of other endings from happy to nihlistic.

Also to go off topic for a second I HATE what bioware has done to the reapers I really never thought their motives needed to be explained I would have rather them remain mysterious. I liked the reapers when they were downright evil control freaks bent on conforming the galaxy to their will.

"You exist because we allow it; and will end because we demand it."  I miss Soverign  

Modifié par Ecrulis, 11 avril 2012 - 06:04 .

[Lenimph]

Heather Cline wrote...

The problem with the current way the game ends is that the fact is Shepard's Character is assassinated. She/He fails to argue against the catalyst AI child. Shepard is railroaded into the color choice ending. Shepard has no choice of an option 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 or 8. The problem is NONE of our choices matter. The only ending with this possible happyish ending is the Destroy option and if you have enough EMS. If you take control or synth you die no matter what. And if you don't have enough EMS you die in Destroy too.

The current ending of the game does not reflect player choice, it does not reflect who Shepard is as a character. In fact it's a complete cop out. It shouldn't be color coded, it shouldn't be based on EMS. It should be based on the decisions made throughout the game. Not this railroad into choose your death unless you have enough EMS to survive the destruction of the energy conduit you shoot at.

I'm going to argue that the best way to argue against the star child is to just pick destroy since half of what Starchild says about destroy is lies anyway.  Want to not listen to him? Pick destroy and kill the stupid mofo... 

I don't understand how people think they can/should be rewarded for choosing control or synthesis.  It goes against  everything the rest of the game stands for but hey... the options are there.     

To say none of the choices matter if you pick destroy is also bull because EMS which is the reflection of the strength in your choices. Also similiar cutscenes or not my Shepard is ALIVE in my ending and the reapers ARE DEAD, and that is a hell of a lot different then what the other endings/colors suggest.   

Modifié par Lenimph, 11 avril 2012 - 06:18 .

[Rudy Lis]

MissNet wrote...

This reminds of our political leaders rhetoric of "Great Victory in the Great war" (WW2). Well, my grandfather was on war. 25 millions of dead, more then any country in the world. More than Germany itself. If it's not enough, when people returned from the captivity, they got arrested and send to the concentration camp for several years. Many of the "winners" never returned.
My grandfather returned from the war. He became a hero. His two friends are alive too. His wife and two sons are alive. If it's "disney" ending everyone talking about, than I am all for it.

My thoughts exactly.

[Reorte]

cachx wrote...

From the start, I knew there was not going to be a lollypops and rainbows ending. One thing that I think ME3 nailed perfectly was the impending sense of doom that came with the war against an unstoppable enemy. The price was going to be too high, and I think a "happy ending" would have nullified that.

I did find the very last scene uplifting, the cycle is broken, and the races of the universe are free.

The real problem here is that people are too attached to the characters and feel dissapointed that they didn't get closure (happy or otherwise).

Why is the attachment to the characters a problem when it's the greatest strength of the game?

An inevitable heavy price on the galaxy most people can accept (even though the level differs). For the individuals? No. Nothing is written in stone for the individuals. The fate of one or two people in a galactic-scale war hardly nullifies the impact of the enemy (Starbrat had a far bigger negative impact on the nature and scale of the threat than any happy ending ever could). By all means put the happiness in context of all that's lost, worlds and comrades that were lost along the way, but rationally saying Shepard has to make the ultimate sacrifice is about as sensible as saying that Random Alliance Marine #122 has to do it.

[Ecrulis]

Lenimph wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...

The problem with the current way the game ends is that the fact is Shepard's Character is assassinated. She/He fails to argue against the catalyst AI child. Shepard is railroaded into the color choice ending. Shepard has no choice of an option 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 or 8. The problem is NONE of our choices matter. The only ending with this possible happyish ending is the Destroy option and if you have enough EMS. If you take control or synth you die no matter what. And if you don't have enough EMS you die in Destroy too.

The current ending of the game does not reflect player choice, it does not reflect who Shepard is as a character. In fact it's a complete cop out. It shouldn't be color coded, it shouldn't be based on EMS. It should be based on the decisions made throughout the game. Not this railroad into choose your death unless you have enough EMS to survive the destruction of the energy conduit you shoot at.

I'm going to argue that the best way to argue against the star child is to just pick destroy since half of what Starchild says about destroy is lies anyway.  Want to not listen to him? Pick destroy and kill the stupid mofo... 

I don't understand how people think they can/should be rewarded for choosing control or synthesis.  It goes against  everything the rest of the game stands for but hey... the options are there.     

To say none of the choices matter if you pick destroy is also bull because EMS which is the reflection of the strength your choices. Also similiar cutscenes or not my Shepard is ALIVE in my ending and the reapers ARE DEAD, and that is a hell of a lot different then what the other endings/colors suggest.   

This I also agree with no matter what I choose destroy every time I do not believe a word the brat says and as far as Shepard is concerned he set out in this to do one thing, destroy the reapers and the fact that my shep survives in my opinion is proof that reaper boy wasnt giving us the whole truth.

I may not be able to ask questions but I sure as hell can use my gun to tell the brat to screw himself.

Now I will just hope that the extended cut clarifies what comes next 

[Zjarcal]

Lenimph wrote...

I'm going to argue that the best way to argue against the star child is to just pick destroy since half of what Starchild says about destroy is lies anyway.  Want to not listen to him? Pick destroy and kill the stupid mofo... 

Die mofo, die! If only I could do a little stabbity stab stab before shooting that thingy. 

To say none of the choices matter if you pick destroy is also bull because EMS which is the reflection of the strength your choices. Also similiar cutscenes or not my Shepard is ALIVE in my ending and the reapers ARE DEAD, and that is a hell of a lot different then what the other endings/colors suggest.   

Word.

[Reorte]

MissNet wrote...

I'm amazed how some people find "millions of dead, mass relays blow up, normandy stranded" ending is uplifting.
I used to work in hospice and heard the stories dying people tell. If they can talk. Or think.
I suppose, I saw so many deaths in real life, I can imagine how bad it is in the war.I don't see how relatively "happy ending" (for me it would be Shepard alive with his crew, Mass Relays are intact, Citadel all right) can be happy. It's not happy, damn, it's death everywhere.

This reminds of our political leaders rhetoric of "Great Victory in the Great war" (WW2). Well, my grandfather was on war. 25 millions of dead, more then any country in the world. More than Germany itself. If it's not enough, when people returned from the captivity, they got arrested and send to the concentration camp for several years. Many of the "winners" never returned.
My grandfather returned from the war. He became a hero. His two friends are alive too. His wife and two sons are alive. If it's "disney" ending everyone talking about, than I am all for it.

Well said. The sad enders would've told you to be cheerful about it if your grandfather had died.

[Reorte]

Zjarcal wrote...
Die mofo, die! If only I could do a little stabbity stab stab before shooting that thingy. 

I spent so long shooting at the little ****, without any effect

[Clayless]

MissNet wrote...

I'm amazed how some people find "millions of dead, mass relays blow up, normandy stranded" ending is uplifting.
I used to work in hospice and heard the stories dying people tell. If they can talk. Or think.
I suppose, I saw so many deaths in real life, I can imagine how bad it is in the war.I don't see how relatively "happy ending" (for me it would be Shepard alive with his crew, Mass Relays are intact, Citadel all right) can be happy. It's not happy, damn, it's death everywhere.

10,000 years later:

"Billions of people died in the fight with the Reapers, and they killed quadrillions of people beforehand, and would've continued until the end of time wiping out an inifinite amount of lives."

Comparated to:

10,000 years later, no one tells that story, everyone is dead and nothing mattered.

[shadowreflexion]

 I don't know how I missed this topic....

Personally, I don't have anything against a "happy" ending whatsoever. But I think that it would be fair to say that in order to accomplish it, one would have to go through fire to unlock it as a bonus ending. I fully expected my ending to be bleak, dark, and painful. I expected the DA:O team to give the ME team advice on how to convey emotion about my sacrafice to the galaxy. Not like the Lucasesque celebrating at the end of RotS but more along the lines of the end of Gladiator on steroids squared. Heads bowed, my crew barely keeping it together, my mother with tears pouring as she tries to steel herself, my LI, if Liara, touches her stomach and says this is for your father my little wing. Tali walking up to the memorial, removing her mask and then turning to the crowd, which switches to the screen so we could see, with tears flowing. And others equally as powerful. Yeah, Allistar's speech brought tears to my eyes when he spoke of me in DA:O. That was the platinum icing on my golden cake.

[Grimwick]

MissNet wrote...

I'm amazed how some people find "millions of dead, mass relays blow up, normandy stranded" ending is uplifting.
I used to work in hospice and heard the stories dying people tell. If they can talk. Or think.
I suppose, I saw so many deaths in real life, I can imagine how bad it is in the war.I don't see how relatively "happy ending" (for me it would be Shepard alive with his crew, Mass Relays are intact, Citadel all right) can be happy. It's not happy, damn, it's death everywhere.

This reminds of our political leaders rhetoric of "Great Victory in the Great war" (WW2). Well, my grandfather was on war. 25 millions of dead, more then any country in the world. More than Germany itself. If it's not enough, when people returned from the captivity, they got arrested and send to the concentration camp for several years. Many of the "winners" never returned.
My grandfather returned from the war. He became a hero. His two friends are alive too. His wife and two sons are alive. If it's "disney" ending everyone talking about, than I am all for it.

This is so true. Many people returned from wars such as WW2 being hailed as heroes. Very few feel like it. There's nothing happy in war so I don't know how people find any sense of happiness in ME3.

In fact, even after WW2 there was VE day, where people celebrated the end in the streets by partying! Why is this not possible for ME?? Why?
There is nothing 'cool' or 'original' in genocide and matyrdom at all... nor is there anything 'sweet' to counteract the bitter.

I really don't know why people don't want a happy ending. MY story deserves a happy ending and if you want to go off and make your Shepard commit suicide in some stupid way you can go off and do that, i'd rather just sit back with my team mates and LI tyvm.

[Zjarcal]

MissNet wrote...
My grandfather returned from the war. He became a hero. His two friends are alive too. His wife and two sons are alive. If it's "disney" ending everyone talking about, than I am all for it.

Explain to me how is any of this not possible currently in the game. Shepard can live and be a hero (already is a hero anyway), and her/his friends are alive, (together or not, they are alive).

[tomcplotts]

I wouldn't "hate" a happy ending, but I think it would've broken the narrative as badly as the current one does. You have what might be one of the most ferocious antagonists in gaming history, and a potential "everyone comes out okay" ending like the suicide mission trivializes the Reapers' destructive power and reduces them too much in statue. If that had happened, that would be half the threads in here, and rightfully so.

I would agree that you need to scale the endings to reward more thorough play, though. If the Reapers are beatable--and they have to be to warrant even playing the series--then there are degrees of victory that need to be achievable. But I would've been pissy had it been a Star Trek kind of ending where only the red shirts get killed but everyone else is just hunky dory. The Reapers would've deserved better as villians.

[DamonD7]

MissNet wrote...

This reminds of our political leaders rhetoric of "Great Victory in the Great war" (WW2). Well, my grandfather was on war. 25 millions of dead, more then any country in the world. More than Germany itself. If it's not enough, when people returned from the captivity, they got arrested and send to the concentration camp for several years. Many of the "winners" never returned.
My grandfather returned from the war. He became a hero. His two friends are alive too. His wife and two sons are alive. If it's "disney" ending everyone talking about, than I am all for it.

That's touching, and I agree with the sentiment.

[Ecrulis]

Zjarcal wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

I'm going to argue that the best way to argue against the star child is to just pick destroy since half of what Starchild says about destroy is lies anyway.  Want to not listen to him? Pick destroy and kill the stupid mofo... 

Die mofo, die! If only I could do a little stabbity stab stab before shooting that thingy. 

Heh first time I encountered the kid I was hoping it was Harbinger so I could tell him "This hurts you" as I blew up his army. Cheesy I know but still 

[NM_Che56]

a dude walked into a massage parlor. He got a happy ending. He got arrested. Not so happy now.

/troll

[Mr.House]

Lenimph wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...

The problem with the current way the game ends is that the fact is Shepard's Character is assassinated. She/He fails to argue against the catalyst AI child. Shepard is railroaded into the color choice ending. Shepard has no choice of an option 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 or 8. The problem is NONE of our choices matter. The only ending with this possible happyish ending is the Destroy option and if you have enough EMS. If you take control or synth you die no matter what. And if you don't have enough EMS you die in Destroy too.

The current ending of the game does not reflect player choice, it does not reflect who Shepard is as a character. In fact it's a complete cop out. It shouldn't be color coded, it shouldn't be based on EMS. It should be based on the decisions made throughout the game. Not this railroad into choose your death unless you have enough EMS to survive the destruction of the energy conduit you shoot at.

I'm going to argue that the best way to argue against the star child is to just pick destroy since half of what Starchild says about destroy is lies anyway.  Want to not listen to him? Pick destroy and kill the stupid mofo... 

I don't understand how people think they can/should be rewarded for choosing control or synthesis.  It goes against  everything the rest of the game stands for but hey... the options are there.     

To say none of the choices matter if you pick destroy is also bull because EMS which is the reflection of the strength in your choices. Also similiar cutscenes or not my Shepard is ALIVE in my ending and the reapers ARE DEAD, and that is a hell of a lot different then what the other endings/colors suggest.   

What was the point of curing the Genophage? Wrex and majority of the krogans are stranded on Sol. What was the point of getting peace between the Geth and Quarians? Majority are stuck in Sol. What was the point of getting the krogan and turrians to work together? They all wind up in Sol anyways. What was the point helping all those peopel on the Citidal, they are all screwed anyways. What was the point of helpnig Kelly when 99% chance she is dead now. What's the ponit of getting invested into the Normandys crew or even helpnig anyone when they always becoem stranded. What's the point of Shepard surving when she is stranded all alone in a bunch of rubble somewhere where she will most likely bleed out. No choices matter at all becauset he outcome is always the same and there is nothing to tell us what happen. You could just play ME3 with no import and it would end the same.

Bioware dropped the ball big time and managed to destory five years in ten minutes, the fact that people have to create their own endigns in their head just shows Mac Walters and Casey failed at telling a story.

Modifié par Mr.House, 11 avril 2012 - 06:33 .

[JC426]

I would of liked their to of been a heroic ending if you have a plus7000 EMS where Shepard has overcome the machinations of the "Emperor" and has decided to destroy the Reapers. Cut to his crew on Earth looking up midbattle to see the Crucible firing, the Reapers being hit by the energy wave and falling a la Destroy ending, celebrations ensue showing all the alien races you have united through the game with those major characters on Earth at the forefront. I then wanted to see the Crucible spread the energy wave through the relays wothout destroying them or the Citadel at first and cut to scenes on Thessia, Palavan, Sur'Kesh, Illium and other major planets showing the allied forces battling away as the energy wave hits then celebrating. Cut back to Earth where you see the Crucible and Citadel explode, see the horrified looks on your squadmates faces as they think you have died, then when all seems lost you appear with Joker who has rescued you with the Normandy and you see Shep and LI reunite on a scorched Earth. Epilogue scenes would then show the major characters returning to their homes (and seeing a proper Tali face reveal) and planning on rebuilding a stronger Galactic alliance, a new Citadel with a new Council of Humans, Asari, Krogans, Salarians, Geth and Quarians. Fade to black

[Ecrulis]

Actually I would've been at least a little happier if the destroy option WAS Shepard's way of rejecting starkid, like If the kid presented us with control or synthesis and the option to destroy became available with enough EMS, I dunno Im not a writer but something like that would have at least made me feel as if Shepard had a mind of his own.

[Mr.House]

Zjarcal wrote...

MissNet wrote...
My grandfather returned from the war. He became a hero. His two friends are alive too. His wife and two sons are alive. If it's "disney" ending everyone talking about, than I am all for it.

Explain to me how is any of this not possible currently in the game. Shepard can live and be a hero (already is a hero anyway), and her/his friends are alive, (together or not, they are alive).

If alive, you mean layed out in rubble with a big chance bleeding out and her friends are on a uncharted world and most likely will starve to death. Yes good ending.

[Lenimph]

Mr.House wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

MissNet wrote...
My grandfather returned from the war. He became a hero. His two friends are alive too. His wife and two sons are alive. If it's "disney" ending everyone talking about, than I am all for it.

Explain to me how is any of this not possible currently in the game. Shepard can live and be a hero (already is a hero anyway), and her/his friends are alive, (together or not, they are alive).

If alive, you mean layed out in rubble with a big chance bleeding out and her friends are on a uncharted world and most likely will starve to death. Yes good ending.

SPOILER

 Bioware's already stated no one will starve to death 
/SPOILER 

Modifié par Lenimph, 11 avril 2012 - 06:38 .