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#76
Getorex

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J0hnick wrote...

Assuming this isn't a fake, I'm actually really disappointed Bioware didn't have the balls to include this scene. I give them all the props in the world for finally putting in the same sex romances we know they always wanted to include in the previous games, and of course they were going to get some backlash for it. lets not kid each other, the vast majority of people who are against same sex relationships aren't against them because they think its gross (though some are), their against it because their holly book tells them its wrong. But seeing as most people nowadays have enough common sense to see that in this day and age, thats not the case, props to Bioware for putting them in.

On the flip side, 2 steps forward and 1 step back Bioware for deleting this scene. In ME1 Ashley was portrayed as religious and whilst Sheppard has a choice in ME1, as an Athiest myself, sheppard seems to come across as your average fence sitting agnostic (especially in ME2 and 3 were you don't have a choice) as in he/she doesn't have any religious beliefs but isn't against the possibility that there is a god and an afterlife. Ashely can express her beliefs in ME1 and there is very little backlash, Thane was deeply religious and was one of the most popular characters in ME2, even Mordin mentions turning to god at some point in his life and everyone loves Mordin.

Hypothetically speaking, even if Sheppard was a full on Athiest, would it really matter ?.Our hero can now be male or female, any human race or sexual orientation they like, but when it comes to religious beliefs they either have to believe or at most be on the fence (for 2 out of 3 games at least) ?.


Well, I don't know that balls (or lack thereof) had anything to do with it not being included.  Seriously.  I'm a full-on atheist and I have no problem with the conversation.  He didn't confirm what Ashley hoped he would but he also wasn't a dick about it (how could you be a dick to a woman that looks like that?).  I found the constant distrust Ash kept showing to Shepard far more irritating (though understandable) than this conversation.  I LIKED this conversation, as a matter of fact.  It was well done.  THAT is why it was cut, because it was good and solid and Bioware was all about simple, brainless, moronic, and illogical in this here baby.  :blink:

#77
chester013

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I think it's a decent scene, you don't get any insight as to what Shepard thinks about what Cerberus did to him and this would have really added something not only to his/her story but to your relationship with Ash.

Now I'm an atheist and unlike some I respect other peoples opinions, some dude to church doesn't really affect me, so why should it bother me? Same goes with Ash, she has her beliefs which puts a lens on her world view, this was made clear in ME1. Don't see the need to hide it now, hell if they can stand up to religious conservatives over the gay thing they can perhaps ask the more vociferous atheists to calm down if they thought that was the problem.

Modifié par chester013, 11 avril 2012 - 06:10 .


#78
Shepard108278

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Il Divo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

They already put "teh gayz" in the game, could you REALLY imagine the backlash from the Christies if THAT conversation got put in as well?

Seriously, it'd be be ridiculous. Just off the charts ridiculous.


If that's the case, they certainly have bigger fish to fry. Assassin's Creed's implications for religion are ten times more horrendous than Mass Effect, from a Christian perspective, yet that's gotten by unscathed. Shepard didn't fully discount Ashley's beliefs; he said he couldn't give her a real answer.

No kidding. I'm a christian and love the Assassins Creed games. But I see nothing wrong or anti christian here or in Assassins Creed it's just fiction geez.

#79
TheGreenAlloy

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trobbins777 wrote...

Getorex wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Getorex wrote...

The religious stuff from Ash turned me off in the first ME game. Same thing happens in real life. You are a woman, you start spouting religious talk, we're done. That said, I had no problem with the deleted conversation. It worked (and it shat on the beliefs in a satisfying way). Win-win.

What does being a woman have to do with anything?


I said that because I'm a guy and I only go for women.  If a woman I'm interested in spouts off religious mumbo jumbo, no more interest.  Get it?  That applies in game too.  Turns me (Shepard) off.  Simple as that.


I'm sorry but Spouts? She brings it up when she talks about the death of her father and Kaiden's death, both are brief mentions. It shows us that her religion is a tool she uses to deal with some of the harder moments of her life. That's not  mumbo jumbo that's character depth. I don't mean to sound rude but i think you should be more open minded. If you just dismiss someone the second they start talking about their religion, that says alot more about you than them. 

Also Just out of curiousity did you have the same opinion about Thane?


Or Mordin, Samara, Wrex, Javik, Liara?

#80
TheGreenAlloy

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Shepard108278 wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

They already put "teh gayz" in the game, could you REALLY imagine the backlash from the Christies if THAT conversation got put in as well?

Seriously, it'd be be ridiculous. Just off the charts ridiculous.


If that's the case, they certainly have bigger fish to fry. Assassin's Creed's implications for religion are ten times more horrendous than Mass Effect, from a Christian perspective, yet that's gotten by unscathed. Shepard didn't fully discount Ashley's beliefs; he said he couldn't give her a real answer.

No kidding. I'm a christian and love the Assassins Creed games. But I see nothing wrong or anti christian here or in Assassins Creed it's just fiction geez.

Same perspective as you.

The news like to pick up views and create controversiality, easy as that.

#81
RocketManSR2

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I was thinking that if you added up all of Allers' pointless dialog and scenes throughout the game, it would probably be as long as that great scene with Ash that they cut out. Now, if you'll excuse me, I think I'm going to be sick.

#82
Father_Jerusalem

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Look, for the minority of sane Christians, there would be no problem. But clearly, CLEARLY, those are not the people running the media. Is it anti-Christian? No. But it doesn't have Shepard up in heaven hanging out with God and Jeebus with a choir of angels, so Fox news would jump all over it and scream "BioWare is anti-god! They're turning kids into atheists!" and you all KNOW that.

Do we not remember the "Blue Boob" incident from ME1? That's why romance scenes in BioWare games now are crap, and why people apparently shower in their underwear or full dress uniform in the future.

#83
Spaghetti_Ninja

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According to Shepard, there is no afterlife in the Mass Effect 3 universe.

OMG WHY DID THEY DELETE THIS!!! That would have made up for the incredibly offensive ''no atheists in foxholes'' remark Shep and Ashley make in the first game.

Damn you damn you damn you.

#84
Alchemist4

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BioWare didn't want to deal with any backlash so they cut it out. Glad they stood by their artistic integrity with this one.<_<

Modifié par Alchemist4, 11 avril 2012 - 08:49 .


#85
Eragondragonrider

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I don't understand why BioWare cut this scene but left the scene at the end where I can talk to Garrus about meeting him in Heaven at the bar.

#86
Druzgot

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I know that again about endings but it makes me laught:D
Ashley:"Hate the smell. Hate the COLORS.Hate the reminder of... the END, Y'know?

To stay i topic, I also dont know why the didnt put this in game if this is a real scene.

Modifié par Druzgot, 11 avril 2012 - 08:50 .


#87
Il Divo

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Alchemist4 wrote...

BioWare didn't want to deal with any backlash so they cut it out. Glad they stood by their artistic integrity with this one.<_<


Too soon. Way too soon. Posted Image

#88
RocketManSR2

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The more and more I hear about what was cut from the game, the more pissed off I get at EA. ME3 is a shell of the masterpiece it could've been if only BioWare had been given the time they needed to truly complete it. >.<

- This just makes me wonder how much other stuff we missed out on in order to squeeze MP onto the disc. Yea, I went there. I firmly believe a lot of fears were realized about the MP. Having a separate team dev it was fine, but the money that was budgeted for the whole project made that a moot point. Whatever was spent on MP was lost for the SP. BioWare also wanted to keep the game to 2 discs. Unfortunately, this led to more stuff being cut from the SP in order to make room, like the Prothean content (the deadline was involved in that, too, I'm sure). That ridiculous deadline led to a  rushed ending and insufficient bug testing. It was one big recipe for disaster and here we are, dealing with the aftermath. *shakes head* It's a damn shame and I really, really mean that. :unsure:

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 11 avril 2012 - 09:09 .


#89
SalsaDMA

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Druzgot wrote...

I know that again about endings but it makes me laught:D
Ashley:"Hate the smell. Hate the COLORS.Hate the reminder of... the END, Y'know?

To stay i topic, I also dont know why the didnt put this in game if this is a real scene.


This must be it..

Ash was dissing their own end. Can't have that.. Snip snip...

;)

#90
Iakus

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Druzgot wrote...

I know that again about endings but it makes me laught:D
Ashley:"Hate the smell. Hate the COLORS.Hate the reminder of... the END, Y'know?

To stay i topic, I also dont know why the didnt put this in game if this is a real scene.


Oh it's real.  It's from the script leak

#91
Druzgot

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iakus wrote...

Druzgot wrote...

I know that again about endings but it makes me laught:D
Ashley:"Hate the smell. Hate the COLORS.Hate the reminder of... the END, Y'know?

To stay i topic, I also dont know why the didnt put this in game if this is a real scene.


Oh it's real.  It's from the script leak



Ohhhhhh...:( They kept crappy, pointless, worth as much as war assets it give, Allers character and cut as possible Ash character.. With this scene I would be fullfill with her development but in current state i liked her in ME3 only because I really loved her character in ME1.:unsure:
Shame BioWare, shame...

Modifié par Druzgot, 11 avril 2012 - 09:22 .


#92
RocketManSR2

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I wasn't one of the people who raged over the ending, but the combination of things is beginning to make me lose my desire to play the series anymore.

- I guess it's only now beginning to sink in. 

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 11 avril 2012 - 09:33 .


#93
MegaBadExample

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It's a damn shame.

It's also sad that Ashley doesn't get much romance specific dialogue. All she beasically says is: "Commander." "Shepard." "Hey there." and the most annoying of all... "Good to see you."

Just completely ruined my experience.

Is a little "Skipper." to much to ask for? Apparently so. It's like someone at Bioware forgot about that little gem.

#94
Gallimatia

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TheGreenAlloy wrote...

I'm sorry but Spouts? She brings it up when she talks about the death of her father and Kaiden's death, both are brief mentions. It shows us that her religion is a tool she uses to deal with some of the harder moments of her life. That's not  mumbo jumbo that's character depth. I don't mean to sound rude but i think you should be more open minded. If you just dismiss someone the second they start talking about their religion, that says alot more about you than them. 

Also Just out of curiousity did you have the same opinion about Thane?



Ashley on occasion acts as if people that aren't religious are too stupid to get it. The most noteworthy example of this is her talk with sole survivor Shepard (vid). She is visibly upset Shepard doesn't realize it was God that kept the Threser Maws at bay. I would call this religious spouting.

Modifié par Gallimatia, 11 avril 2012 - 09:42 .


#95
Awookie

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thewolf13 wrote...

I find Ashley's character very dumbed down in ME3. I remember Ashley from ME1 as being xenophobic, family oriented, educated, and religious. They carried only about 50% of that over to ME3.

Also I'm an extremely conservative Christian who has no problem with this conversation but lets remember that FoxNews takes everything out of context when they host their witch trials.


AFAIK, she only hated Turians.  And while prejudice is never justified, her and her family have been taking flak due to the fact that the Turians forced her grandfather to surrender. 

They gave Kaidan a lot more character in ME3 though.  It sucks when you save the more intresting character, and they get dumbed down, while the dull character that you sacrificed suddenly becomes intresting. 

Modifié par Awookie, 11 avril 2012 - 09:50 .


#96
N7-RedFox

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The Razman wrote...

Didn't see this posted anywhere ... a deleted scene depicting a conversation between Ashley and Sheperd about the afterlife, and what Sheperd remembers from being dead in Mass Effect 2.

Shame it didn't get left in (if this is really a deleted scene) ... Ashley's religious beliefs were always an intriguing part of her character. You don't get many traditionally religious people in sci-fi.


Wow that scene was deep. I enjoyed reading it and at the same time it didn't infringe on anyone else's religion. I have no idea why they would cut that scene. It gives a really nice sense of Shepards perception and would have explained why he was so quick to accept death when Starchild gives him the 3 choices. 

#97
78stonewobble

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On the other hand...

When jehova's witnesses come around I slam the door.

I wish I have that option when religion gets pushed via the tv but in an RPG there actually is that option.

"Renegade interrupt." :D

#98
TheGreenAlloy

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Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

According to Shepard, there is no afterlife in the Mass Effect 3 universe.

OMG WHY DID THEY DELETE THIS!!! That would have made up for the incredibly offensive ''no atheists in foxholes'' remark Shep and Ashley make in the first game.

Damn you damn you damn you.

That remark in ME was optional...

#99
ItsFreakinJesus

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That was the one scene I waited for in ME3, shame it didn't make it in.

#100
SaranBlade

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Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

They already put "teh gayz" in the game, could you REALLY imagine the backlash from the Christies if THAT conversation got put in as well?

Seriously, it'd be be ridiculous. Just off the charts ridiculous.


tbh as a agnostic i can care less about religion in a game becaus ei have the option of just not talking to ashley let alone romance her

same can be said for people who dont like the idea of same sex romances

no ones forcing you to go to that specific thing in the game

i think just because its a political year people may start assuming the worst really


I'm an atheist, so I don't care either. But the Christies WOULD care, they'd get all up in arms and Fox would scream about how BioWare hates God and blah blah blah. We all remember what happened in ME1 with just the slightest hint of blue boob, this would be a thousand times worse.


Well I'm a "Christie" and I think it would have added to the game.  If no one's allowed to put you in an atheist or agnostic "boat" (and that shouldn't happen), then what makes it fair to put "Christies" in a boat?

At any rate, again, it was quite an ambiguous scene.  For all we know they were more worried about the backlash from people uninterested in seeing any religious references in the game (and they exist).

Modifié par SaranBlade, 11 avril 2012 - 10:11 .