644 réponses à ce sujet

[shepard1038]

I don't think is good to compare the Geth a Video Game race to the Jews.

[Killa rican]

Again. If EDI Can fall in love. Why cant Upgraded Reaper Geth As individuals?

[Riion]

shepard1038 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

The Irish Man wrote...

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

Mesmurae wrote...

Targeting a specific group for extinction = Genocide.

In this case, synthetics.

What he said.

Synthetics aren't naturally organic beings. Your killing off robots that have enough written code in them to make their own decisions.

Yeah, that's pretty much what Hitler said.
Synthetics are people, deal with it.

How can you compare the jews and all the people Hitler killed to the Geth???

It's pretty much the same thing, trying to condone genocide by the rational that they aren't true people.

There not people they don't have a soul, they don't have a brain, they don't have heart.

Prove they don't have a soul/we have a soul.
I would argue that a CPU is the synthetic version of a brain, and at a certain level of complexity, I don't see why you would discount them.
I don't see how having a heart makes you a true person; are you calling people on artificial hearts non- people!?
I would argue that all sentient beings should be attributed respect, not just the ones that look like you and me.

[spartan5127]

shepard1038 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

The Irish Man wrote...

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

Mesmurae wrote...

Targeting a specific group for extinction = Genocide.

In this case, synthetics.

What he said.

Synthetics aren't naturally organic beings. Your killing off robots that have enough written code in them to make their own decisions.

Yeah, that's pretty much what Hitler said.
Synthetics are people, deal with it.

How can you compare the jews and all the people Hitler killed to the Geth???

It's pretty much the same thing, trying to condone genocide by the rational that they aren't true people.

There not people they don't have a soul, they don't have a brain, they don't have heart.

How do you judge if they have a soul or not? How do you judge if you have a soul or not?  Organic brains are the only thing that can count?  Having heart/emotions is the only thing that can count toward personhood?

This seems like a pretty narrow view on what you will count as being a rational agent.

[CronoDragoon]

The word is originated from the Greek genos, meaning race/kind.

The geth are a race/kind/group.

Edit: In any case, the strongest argument against the "Shepard committed genocide" line of thinking is that Shepard's intention was not to kill the geth, and especially not because they were geth. It was an unfortunate side-effect of the action of killing the Reapers.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 11 avril 2012 - 04:47 .

[GnusmasTHX]

I kill one with a soul gem. If it fills, then it has a soul, if it doesn't I either need a larger or black soul gem, or it's soulless.

[Elyiia]

shepard1038 wrote...

I don't think is good to compare the Geth a Video Game race to the Jews.

Why not? It's genocide compared to a real life version. Drawing comparisions makes sense.

[spartan5127]

The Irish Man wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

The Irish Man wrote...

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

Mesmurae wrote...

Targeting a specific group for extinction = Genocide.

In this case, synthetics.

What he said.

Synthetics aren't naturally organic beings. Your killing off robots that have enough written code in them to make their own decisions.

Yeah, that's pretty much what Hitler said.
Synthetics are people, deal with it.

How can you compare the jews and all the people Hitler killed to the Geth???

It's pretty much the same thing, trying to condone genocide by the rational that they aren't true people.

Except the geth aren't true people.

Jewish people don't lose their sentience when they're separated from one another.

Jewish people aren't made by quarians either. The geth are synthetic beings made by the quarians. They are not organic. Jewish people are organic.

Orgainic hardware is the only thing that will allow a person to count as being a rational agent?

[MrHiGhToWeRr]

shepard1038 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

The Irish Man wrote...

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

Mesmurae wrote...

Targeting a specific group for extinction = Genocide.

In this case, synthetics.

What he said.

Synthetics aren't naturally organic beings. Your killing off robots that have enough written code in them to make their own decisions.

Yeah, that's pretty much what Hitler said.
Synthetics are people, deal with it.

How can you compare the jews and all the people Hitler killed to the Geth???

It's pretty much the same thing, trying to condone genocide by the rational that they aren't true people.

There not people they don't have a soul, they don't have a brain, they don't have heart.

Tali would like to have a word with you.

[shepard1038]

How can a synthetic being have a soul?

[CronoDragoon]

shepard1038 wrote...

How can a synthetic being have a soul?

How can an organic being have a soul?

[Elyiia]

shepard1038 wrote...

How can a synthetic being have a soul?

What is a soul, why are you so sure organics have one?

[vinyalonn]

To quoteth the Matrix:

Neo: I just have never... 

Rama-Kandra: ...heard a program speak of love? 

Neo: It's a... human emotion. 

Rama-Kandra: No, it is a word. What matters is the connection the word implies. I see that you are in love. Can you tell me what you would give to hold on to that connection? 

Neo: Anything. 

Rama-Kandra: Then perhaps the reason you're here is not so different from the reason I'm here.

Modifié par vinyalonn, 11 avril 2012 - 04:53 .

[spartan5127]

shepard1038 wrote...

How can a synthetic being have a soul?

Why not? Prove you have a soul in a way that excludes synthetics.  Intuition is not a good reason as it is not an effective means of argumentation when it comes to this issue as we are biased actors.

[KingNothing125]

Computers with consciousness is preposterous, but in the Mass Effect universe, it is part of the established fiction, just like Eezo, the preposterous element with an atomic weight of zero.

The Geth are sentient machines, you (presumably) kill them when you choose Destroy. When you kill a sentient race, you commit genocide. Simple.

[AutumnGhost]

The Irish Man wrote...

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

Mesmurae wrote...

Targeting a specific group for extinction = Genocide.

In this case, synthetics.

What he said.

Synthetics aren't naturally organic beings. Your killing off robots that have enough written code in them to make their own decisions.

The hell do you think DNA is? It's code.  

[M0keys]

Icinix wrote...

Green = Cultural Genocide
Red = Synthetic Genocide
Blue = Eventual total galactic Genocide again anyway.

"Green = Corruption of the Body --- Offer of power: To turn one thing to another/have powers no man should have (eg Stone to Bread)

Red = Corruption of the Soul --- Offer of power: Betray that which you have fought for, and we shall allow you to live (catch you when you fall)

Blue = Corruption of the Mind ------- Offer of power: Merge with the reapers and we will give you ultimate power (kingdoms of the world)

And Starchild = Being of Light



I find it absolutely incredible that Hudson and Walters had no idea they had just referenced every hero's journey in history, and then forgot to let Shepard fulfill his destiny as the ultimate hero by rejecting the temptations of the Corrupted Son. "

[AutumnGhost]

shepard1038 wrote...

How can a synthetic being have a soul?

How can a physical organic being have a soul?  Magic.

[Riion]

KingNothing125 wrote...

Computers with consciousness is preposterous, but in the Mass Effect universe, it is part of the established fiction, just like Eezo, the preposterous element with an atomic weight of zero.

The Geth are sentient machines, you (presumably) kill them when you choose Destroy. When you kill a sentient race, you commit genocide. Simple.

Never say never... 

[Kayawyn4]

shepard1038 wrote...

There not people they don't have a soul, they don't have a brain, they don't have heart.

People don't require a heart to live if they have machines circulate the blood for them. A brain is simply a biological computer that uses neurotransmiters, hormones, and calcium ions to function. As to a soul? I have yet to hear a scientifically sound method of determining the existance or non-existance of a soul, so until there is one, it is not possible to confirm or deny that.

[Arppis]

I was saddened by geth faith. But I sacrificed myself too... well tried to. Reapers had to be stopped, and everyone has to be ready to pitch in. This was the battle to end all battles.

I guess it's not fair, but life rarely is. Atleast they didn't die for nothing.

My Shepard is pretty much paragon. But the line must be drawn somewhere.

Modifié par Arppis, 11 avril 2012 - 04:54 .

[The Irish Man]

CronoDragoon wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

How can a synthetic being have a soul?

How can an organic being have a soul?

Your questioning if you have a soul?

[SupR G]

The Irish Man wrote...

Synthetics aren't naturally organic beings. Your killing off robots that have enough written code in them to make their own decisions.

As per dictionary - "the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial,political, or cultural group. "
Nothing in the definition about what you consider to be "life" which to you is limited to organics. It's a group of sentient beings. Therefore, genocide. You'd make a good villain on Star Trek though.

[Jamber]

WOW, the geth aren't a "people". You seemed to have missed an entire quadrant of the ideas brought to the table by the game (and honestly, this has been a complex ideal to quantify in sci-fi, and philosophy for even longer), what makes a being a "living being", and what constitutes a soul. I can't believe I have to reitterate this, but, throughout the entirety of the series, the geth as a "people" has been a major player in the story. And, even if you want to deny they aren't a "people" if they never upgraded with reaper code to become true AI's, (which I'm hoping you are not arguing that true AI's aren't a "people" either. That is a very philosophical debate), then all of the OTHER AI's in the galaxy will also cease to function, and who's to say there is only EDI?

Wiping out all synthetics wouldn't be genocide, if we could be 100% sure that all synthetics in the galaxy were not self-aware. Because we can't say that, we have to assume that there are sentient synthetics out there. Also, Shepard was stated as being partially synthetic, and would die; wouldn't that mean the Quarians would probably die too? They use a lot of synthetics to keep themselves alive. Do you think their suits work mechanically?

[The Irish Man]

Kayawyn4 wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

There not people they don't have a soul, they don't have a brain, they don't have heart.

People don't require a heart to live if they have machines circulate the blood for them. A brain is simply a biological computer that uses neurotransmiters, hormones, and calcium ions to function. As to a soul? I have yet to hear a scientifically sound method of determining the existance or non-existance of a soul, so until there is one, it is not possible to confirm or deny that.

I wouldn't suggest saying your opinions about souls. It might ****** people off that care about their religion.