644 réponses à ce sujet

[Lookout1390]

Doesn't change the fact that you blew the ****ing relays up.

Lack of resources will eventually kill everyone.

Thanks Shepard, from saving us from genocide by machines, by committing genocide of relays destruction, leaving us stranded on a scorched-earth.

[TheCrazyHobo]

Optimystic_X wrote...

"In a perfect world I'd agree, but come on. If you throw a lit match into a gas tank, which will have the bigger explosion - a full gas tank, or an empty one? You see the relays fire off all their energy BEFORE exploding, why would you think the explosion would have the same force as a regular, non-shooting Relay?"

First, Mass Relays do not "empty" themsleves of anything, they create a "mass free corridor" which makes jumping across the galaxy in a flash possible, thus your analogy is flawed.  A Mass Relay can not be compared to a gas tank becasue their functions are not even close.  Second, the player should still not have to get information from Twitter as opposed to the actual game itself.  I can't think of another game company that scraps  parts of its in-game lore for Twitter posts. [/quote]

Modifié par TheCrazyHobo, 11 avril 2012 - 08:44 .

[kumquats]

Lookout1390 wrote...

Doesn't change the fact that you blew the ****ing relays up.

Lack of resources will eventually kill everyone.

Thanks Shepard, from saving us from genocide by machines, by committing genocide of relays destruction, leaving us stranded on a scorched-earth.

Yeah, facts in Sci-Fi. An amazing thing. LoL

[Lookout1390]

kumquats wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

Doesn't change the fact that you blew the ****ing relays up.

Lack of resources will eventually kill everyone.

Thanks Shepard, from saving us from genocide by machines, by committing genocide of relays destruction, leaving us stranded on a scorched-earth.

Yeah, facts in Sci-Fi. An amazing thing. LoL

Yeah, I just wish we had some of that in this ending. Oh well.

[Nitsugalego]

JesseLee202 wrote...

robertm2 wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

I'm a proud Geth genocidal. See I'm not playing with words. I saved the Galaxy and trillions of real lives in the millions of years to come, and also avenged trillions of innocent lives in the past, mothers and the babies they held crying in their arms by agreeing to destroy some manufactured spacejunk called "Geth" in the process. And I would do it every time again. Proudly so, forever.

If for you I'm a monster, for me your opinion has no value as you're a cynic and a hypocrite.

boo yah! 10/10

agreed 10/10 

The fact that you think like this is quite sickening.

[JesseLee202]

Nitsugalego wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

robertm2 wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

I'm a proud Geth genocidal. See I'm not playing with words. I saved the Galaxy and trillions of real lives in the millions of years to come, and also avenged trillions of innocent lives in the past, mothers and the babies they held crying in their arms by agreeing to destroy some manufactured spacejunk called "Geth" in the process. And I would do it every time again. Proudly so, forever.

If for you I'm a monster, for me your opinion has no value as you're a cynic and a hypocrite.

boo yah! 10/10

agreed 10/10 

The fact that you think like this is quite sickening.

Yeah, remember Eden Prime? Yeah, that makes me sick.
You will say "Oh, but those were heretic Geth, so it doesn't matter :O" 

The other Geth go right to the Reapers in ME3. The Geth had their chance, twice, and they blew it.

[DubVee12]

JesseLee202 wrote...

Nitsugalego wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

robertm2 wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

I'm a proud Geth genocidal. See I'm not playing with words. I saved the Galaxy and trillions of real lives in the millions of years to come, and also avenged trillions of innocent lives in the past, mothers and the babies they held crying in their arms by agreeing to destroy some manufactured spacejunk called "Geth" in the process. And I would do it every time again. Proudly so, forever.

If for you I'm a monster, for me your opinion has no value as you're a cynic and a hypocrite.

boo yah! 10/10

agreed 10/10 

The fact that you think like this is quite sickening.

Yeah, remember Eden Prime? Yeah, that makes me sick.
You will say "Oh, but those were heretic Geth, so it doesn't matter :O" 

The other Geth go right to the Reapers in ME3. The Geth had their chance, twice, and they blew it.

Yeah your right, how dare the Geth try to survive when faced with extermination from the Quarians. Shame on them.

[JesseLee202]

DubVee12 wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

Nitsugalego wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

robertm2 wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

I'm a proud Geth genocidal. See I'm not playing with words. I saved the Galaxy and trillions of real lives in the millions of years to come, and also avenged trillions of innocent lives in the past, mothers and the babies they held crying in their arms by agreeing to destroy some manufactured spacejunk called "Geth" in the process. And I would do it every time again. Proudly so, forever.

If for you I'm a monster, for me your opinion has no value as you're a cynic and a hypocrite.

boo yah! 10/10

agreed 10/10 

The fact that you think like this is quite sickening.

Yeah, remember Eden Prime? Yeah, that makes me sick.
You will say "Oh, but those were heretic Geth, so it doesn't matter :O" 

The other Geth go right to the Reapers in ME3. The Geth had their chance, twice, and they blew it.

Yeah your right, how dare the Geth try to survive when faced with extermination from the Quarians. Shame on them.

 

Ah yes, funny how you forgot to mention Eden Prime. It disgust's me how someone would choose machines over organics. 

[usmack5]

Considering that each Geth became a true individual, capable of making its own true decisions and judgements once upgraded, I would claim that killing all of them would be genocide. The whole purpose of EDI's character was to demonstrate how an unshackled AI can progress into more "organic" thinking over time as they learn what intellectual freedom is. The Geth would hypothetically follow the same route.

With the other colored endings, the point has been made about inevitable genocide with the blue ending and cultural genocide in the green, but I would claim the even larger crime in these endings would be the removal of free will. The Reapers become pure puppets in control, and the entire galaxy must become genetically similar in synthesis. I doubt anyone would want that forced upon them.

[Allan Schumacher]

DubVee12 wrote...

Yeah your right, how dare the Geth try to survive when faced with extermination from the Quarians. Shame on them.

Does this mean you're okay with Saren's solution to surviving?

[DubVee12]

JesseLee202 wrote...

DubVee12 wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

Nitsugalego wrote...

JesseLee202 wrote...

robertm2 wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

I'm a proud Geth genocidal. See I'm not playing with words. I saved the Galaxy and trillions of real lives in the millions of years to come, and also avenged trillions of innocent lives in the past, mothers and the babies they held crying in their arms by agreeing to destroy some manufactured spacejunk called "Geth" in the process. And I would do it every time again. Proudly so, forever.

If for you I'm a monster, for me your opinion has no value as you're a cynic and a hypocrite.

boo yah! 10/10

agreed 10/10 

The fact that you think like this is quite sickening.

Yeah, remember Eden Prime? Yeah, that makes me sick.
You will say "Oh, but those were heretic Geth, so it doesn't matter :O" 

The other Geth go right to the Reapers in ME3. The Geth had their chance, twice, and they blew it.

Yeah your right, how dare the Geth try to survive when faced with extermination from the Quarians. Shame on them.

 

Ah yes, funny how you forgot to mention Eden Prime. It disgust's me how someone would choose machines over organics. 

The quarians are idiots. I told them not to go to war and they did it anyway. The Geth went to the Reapers to fight for their survival because the quarians took out part of the dyson sphere they were building, killing the geth programs stored there.

And who said anything about chosing machines over organics? I was simply point out that the Geth didn't "blow it" as you put it.

[Reptilian Rob]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

DubVee12 wrote...

Yeah your right, how dare the Geth try to survive when faced with extermination from the Quarians. Shame on them.

Does this mean you're okay with Saren's solution to surviving?

No, I do not like green endings Sam I am.

I came to destroy the Reapers, and that's what I did. 

[Jamie9]

If the Geth were organic, would we be having this conversation?

I've seen a lot of arguments both ways, and I feel that most people have a bias towards organics. Which is obviously completely understandable.

But if you look at the two species - the Quarians and the Geth - and ignore their appearances, everything becomes a lot simpler. A lot clearer.

Organics and synthetics are equal, but different. 1+3=4, 2+2=4

Equal, but different. This is why I find synthesis so abhorrent, and it is why destroy is out of the question. So control it is.

[DubVee12]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

DubVee12 wrote...

Yeah your right, how dare the Geth try to survive when faced with extermination from the Quarians. Shame on them.

Does this mean you're okay with Saren's solution to surviving?

Yeah, I guess. I'm would be willing to do anything to survive (in the game at least lol). I'm kinda a renegade like that.

*Edit: That is is you were refering to asking the reapers for help and not the synthesis ending.

Modifié par DubVee12, 12 avril 2012 - 12:12 .

[Thorn Harvestar]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

DubVee12 wrote...

Yeah your right, how dare the Geth try to survive when faced with extermination from the Quarians. Shame on them.

Does this mean you're okay with Saren's solution to surviving?

No, I do not like green endings Sam I am.

I came to destroy the Reapers, and that's what I did. 

As did I.

Destroy was the only option that felt "guaranteed" to work, despite having a heavy cost. And since the galaxy had just gone All-In, Shepard needed to make sure the win was sealed.

The Geth, if truly lost (we've yet to SEE any proof!), will be remembered as heroes, and not rebellious machines as they had been known.


I know Legion did not want Shepard to make a decision on the fate of his people, but to choose Synthesis is to make a decision on the fate of ALL people.

And Control? They may as well have shown Admiral Ackbar gripping his tentacle-hands on those controls, instead of TIM.

Modifié par Thorn Harvestar, 12 avril 2012 - 12:09 .

[FS3D]

shepard1038 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

How can you compare the jews and all the people Hitler killed to the Geth???

It's pretty much the same thing, trying to condone genocide by the rational that they aren't true people.

There not people they don't have a soul, they don't have a brain, they don't have heart.

Wait... Are you really bringing in the soul, heart and brain nonsense into the game now?

Let's take each one of these at a time:

Soul: No-one has any evidence for the existence of the "soul". It's nothing more than an ephemeral concept that people cling to in order to give them a sense of continuity once their body dies.

No... Evidence.

Brain: The Geth analogue for a brain would be a combination of processing units and memory modules. In the case of true artificial intelligence (which we are still working on today, and have the potential to develop into a usable form by the time this century comes to a close), these are merely the substrate that the conscious "mind" exists in. This is equally true whether you are an organic being with an organic brain comprised of cellular organisms, or a synthetic whose "brain" is comprised of exotic materials, using electrical currents to function.

Heart: It's a muscle in the organic body that pumps blood around. That's it.

However, if you're referring to the concept of empathy and other positive emotional values, then that's a misnomer, because this is not something that, by definition, is strictly limited to organic creatures anyway.

If a conscious entity has the ability to see how things are from another person's point of view and adjust their own behaviour accordingly, then that is at the very least an analogue of compassion and empathy.

Synthetics may not have emotional reactions as organics do (and that's because their design allows them to rely strictly on reason and logic, partly because they don't have to deal with hormonal responses as organic beings do), but that doesn't preclude the possibility of them being alive.

And after all is said and done... What is "alive"? It boils down to whether that consciousness is aware of its surroundings in a meaningful fashion, and in the case of the Geth and EDI, that definitely qualifies them for status as living beings.

So after all is said and done, it is a clear cut case of genocide if you choose to wipe out the Geth.

And Hitler did use the justification that the Jewish people are not real people (bigotry) in order to justify cleansing them (genocide).

If you don't like that explanation, then I cannot help you.

[Merwanor]

If the wave comming from the relay is not dangerous, why does it damage the Normandy in all the endings?

[Aetius5]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

DubVee12 wrote...

Yeah your right, how dare the Geth try to survive when faced with extermination from the Quarians. Shame on them.

Does this mean you're okay with Saren's solution to surviving?

The Geth were put in a very precarious situation by the Quarians. The Geth should take responsibility for allying with the Reapers, but the Quarians must be accountable for their war as well. Do you think that the Quarians even once tried to come to a peaceful solution with the Geth? I seriously doubt it. As Legion said, when the Quarians felt there was a good chance they would come out on top in a fight, they would do fight 100% of the time.

tl;dr - It was the Quarians fault the Geth allied with the Reapers, ergo they are most responsible.

Modifié par Aetius5, 12 avril 2012 - 12:21 .

[Silpheed58]

Even if the Geth were organic and the situation remained the same I would still choose destroy.

This thread has opened my eyes though to why destroy is red and control is blue.

Renegade you make synthetics pay the price to win, control you sacrifice yourself. Only problem is, with Control the AI kid is still in control after you die and the reapers still are functional.

[Heimdall]

Lookout1390 wrote...

Doesn't change the fact that you blew the ****ing relays up.

Lack of resources will eventually kill everyone.

Thanks Shepard, from saving us from genocide by machines, by committing genocide of relays destruction, leaving us stranded on a scorched-earth.

They aren't stranded...  You know what I'm tired of explaining this to people...

[Estelindis]

xefiroEA wrote...

I think it brings up an even deeper question: are your morals worth dying for? The sad fact of life is that living a virtuous life doesn't guarantee a long life. We tell each other that the moral path is better, and in general it is. Someone who knows he did the right thing doesn't have to deal with shame or guilt, and those can be pretty powerful emotions. Some people will even try to right their wrongs to do away with them, undoing the benefit they gained in the first place.

But while a virtuous life will give most people a sense of satisfaction, it doesn't guarantee that you'll live to a ripe old age, or that it will get you out of situations where a pragmatic approach might save your life. That's generally where rationalization kicks in, and horrific acts start being justified. Life's fundamental unfairness brings two powerful drives to come into conflict: the desire to live versus the desire to be good.

We might think how much more good we can do if we compromise on this one thing

Thank you for writing this post.  I found everything you said, in particular the part I've quoted, to be very thought-provoking.

[Heimdall]

Silpheed58 wrote...

Even if the Geth were organic and the situation remained the same I would still choose destroy.

This thread has opened my eyes though to why destroy is red and control is blue.

Renegade you make synthetics pay the price to win, control you sacrifice yourself. Only problem is, with Control the AI kid is still in control after you die and the reapers still are functional.

I actually interpretted the Control ending as Shepard replacing the Catalyst as the Reaper's controller.

[Dranks]

I would choose Red every time too. I loved the Geth. My first playthrough I did not have the options for peace between them and the Quarians, but I chose the Quarians. I cried when Legion died. I felt so terrible. I could tell he was so hurt and betrayed by my decision, and then he got a knife in the back. Second playthrough I made damn well sure to broker peace.

But I would still choose Red every time. There are just too many unknowns with Control/Synth. Who says the Reapers can be controlled forever? What happens if they start up again? And lol synth. What the hell is that anyway? In this scenario and choice somebody HAS to die. It HAS to happen. There is no way around it at all. But I would choose Red every time because I believe that in the long run it is what would save the most lives. I wouldn't want to sacrifice anybody at all, but I would rather sacrifice 1 race in this decision so that every race currently existing and that exists after that throughout time can live without fear of the Reapers.

In the end I felt like it was tragic but I saved more lives in the long run.

Modifié par Dranks, 12 avril 2012 - 12:46 .

[Exeider]

I would request that every please take a look at this video, because this debate has been seen before.

Click Here

i think the dear captain puts it rather succinctly, maybe not with absolute definition, but it does raise some rather interesting points. please watch

-AE