644 réponses à ce sujet

[shepard1038]

Elyiia wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

How can a synthetic being have a soul?

What is a soul, why are you so sure organics have one?

It is the inmortal essence of a person. A lot of cultures think so.

[The Irish Man]

SupR G wrote...

The Irish Man wrote...

Synthetics aren't naturally organic beings. Your killing off robots that have enough written code in them to make their own decisions.

As per dictionary - "the[color=rgb(51, 51, 51)"> ] [/color]and[color=rgb(51, 51, 51)"> ] [/color]extermination[color=rgb(51, 51, 51)"> ] [/color]a[color=rgb(51, 51, 51)"> ] [/color]racial,[color=rgb(51, 51, 51)">political, ] [/color]cultural group. "
Nothing in the definition about what you consider to be "life" which to you is limited to organics. It's a group of sentient beings. Therefore, genocide. You'd make a good villain on Star Trek though.

Not a fan of star trek. But how is the word sythetic used in genocide?

[CronoDragoon]

The Irish Man wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

How can a synthetic being have a soul?

How can an organic being have a soul?

Your questioning if you have a soul?

There's not much questioning on my part. I don't think there's any such thing as a soul. In any case, the point was to point out that it's ridiculous to ask someone to prove how a synthetic being can have a soul when nobody has done so for humans.

[spartan5127]

The Irish Man wrote...

Kayawyn4 wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

There not people they don't have a soul, they don't have a brain, they don't have heart.

People don't require a heart to live if they have machines circulate the blood for them. A brain is simply a biological computer that uses neurotransmiters, hormones, and calcium ions to function. As to a soul? I have yet to hear a scientifically sound method of determining the existance or non-existance of a soul, so until there is one, it is not possible to confirm or deny that.

I wouldn't suggest saying your opinions about souls. It might ****** people off that care about their religion. 

He never claimed souls didn't exist.  All he claimed that it isn't scientifically proven or disproven, which is true.  Therefore, your entire argument lies with intution, which isn't a strong enough justificaiton for taking the rights away from a potential being with a potential soul

[eddieoctane]

The Irish Man wrote...

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

Mesmurae wrote...

Targeting a specific group for extinction = Genocide.

In this case, synthetics.

What he said.

Synthetics aren't naturally organic beings. Your killing off robots that have enough written code in them to make their own decisions.

Small minded answer.  They are fully sentient and sapient, capable of having subjective experiences and acting with judgement. Legion's refernce to itself as "I", thanking Tali, and choosing "Keelah se'lai" as his last words in an attempt to comfort her were all meant to convey this. These are the characteristics generally considered to be the requirements of intelligent life, what seperates us from lemurs, krogan from varen, you get where this is going. Legion says this ability will be transfered to all geth runtimes if you allow it. Total destruction of the geth--an intelligent, independent race of being-- is genocide. Unless you wouldn't consider wiping out every last salarian genocide. Wait, your right. It's not genocide, it's the extinction of an entire intelligent species. Far worse. This is when the UN would go from capital to corporal punishment.

[NUM13ER]

I never fails to depress me how Hilter gets dragged into anything. Quite literally anything. In this case a theoretical discussion on Synthetics as a living entity. They are either a new kind of sentient being or simply advanced machines with complex decision making skills. Some people feel they are not alive like organics and never will be. It doesn't mean they're pro-ethnic cleansing. So seriously stop talking nonsense and think before you speak.

[The Irish Man]

BioWare I seriously hope you close this thread. I'm sorry for starting a fire that could cause a religious debate about souls on your forums.

[spartan5127]

The Irish Man wrote...

BioWare I seriously hope you close this thread. I'm sorry for starting a fire that could cause a religious debate about souls on your forums.

No one is debating the existance or nonexistance of souls. As far as i am concerned, you are the only one bringing the religious and soul component into this conversation.

Modifié par spartan5127, 11 avril 2012 - 05:00 .

[The Irish Man]

eddieoctane wrote...

The Irish Man wrote...

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

Mesmurae wrote...

Targeting a specific group for extinction = Genocide.

In this case, synthetics.

What he said.

Synthetics aren't naturally organic beings. Your killing off robots that have enough written code in them to make their own decisions.

Small minded answer.  They are fully sentient and sapient, capable of having subjective experiences and acting with judgement. Legion's refernce to itself as "I", thanking Tali, and choosing "Keelah se'lai" as his last words in an attempt to comfort her were all meant to convey this. These are the characteristics generally considered to be the requirements of intelligent life, what seperates us from lemurs, krogan from varen, you get where this is going. Legion says this ability will be transfered to all geth runtimes if you allow it. Total destruction of the geth--an intelligent, independent race of being-- is genocide. Unless you wouldn't consider wiping out every last salarian genocide. Wait, your right. It's not genocide, it's the extinction of an entire intelligent species. Far worse. This is when the UN would go from capital to corporal punishment.

Your forgetting the soul and feelings part. Sythetics don't have those, only organics do.

[CronoDragoon]

NUM13ER wrote...

I never fails to depress me how Hilter gets dragged into anything. Quite literally anything. In this case a theoretical discussion on Synthetics as a living entity. They are either a new kind of sentient being or simply advanced machines with complex decision making skills. Some people feel they are not alive like organics and never will be. It doesn't mean they're pro-ethnic cleansing. So seriously stop talking nonsense and think before you speak.

The thread is about genocide, so for once Godwin's law has a close connection to the content.

[Nobrandminda]

Killing the Geth in the destroy ending is totally genocide.

They're sentient.

They're being killed because of the way they were born.

Open and shut case.

[The Irish Man]

spartan5127 wrote...

The Irish Man wrote...

BioWare I seriously hope you close this thread. I'm sorry for starting a fire that could cause a religious debate about souls on your forums.

No one is debating the existance or nonexistance of souls. As far as i am concerned, you are the only one bringing the religious and soul component into this conversation.

When did I start debating about souls? Or religion? I asked a question about Shepard committing genocide. 

[CronoDragoon]

The Irish Man wrote...

Your forgetting the soul and feelings part. Sythetics don't have those, only organics do.

Prove it.

[CronoDragoon]

The Irish Man wrote...

spartan5127 wrote...

The Irish Man wrote...

BioWare I seriously hope you close this thread. I'm sorry for starting a fire that could cause a religious debate about souls on your forums.

No one is debating the existance or nonexistance of souls. As far as i am concerned, you are the only one bringing the religious and soul component into this conversation.

When did I start debating about souls? Or religion? I asked a question about Shepard committing genocide. 

Whether it was you or not, someone in the thread said that it's not genocide because the geth are not people because they have no souls. So...that is how we got here, lol.

[omphaloskepsis]

The destroy ending doesn't just kill the geth. If you believe the nonsense the starchild dishes out, you're destroying the last remnants of a billion years worth of races. That's genocide on a whole other level.

OTOH, since the reapers don't have free will and must be indoctrinated, it could be viewed as a horrific mercy killing. A billion years of being mind controlled is a long time.

[Big I]

Shepard commits genocide in the destroy ending by wiping out all geth, blue box AIs like EDI, and the Reapers. If you don't think synthetics count as people then I guess that doesn't bother you.


EDIT: Also, if Shepard is supposed to be killed in destroy because of the implants presumably destroy would wipe out the salarian transhumans EDI mentions, any remaining Cerberus forces, and possibly the quarians, people with biotic amps, and people with prosthetics (like that soldier in Huerta Memorial who lost their leg).

Modifié par LookingGlass93, 11 avril 2012 - 05:07 .

[spartan5127]

The Irish Man wrote...

spartan5127 wrote...

The Irish Man wrote...

BioWare I seriously hope you close this thread. I'm sorry for starting a fire that could cause a religious debate about souls on your forums.

No one is debating the existance or nonexistance of souls. As far as i am concerned, you are the only one bringing the religious and soul component into this conversation.

When did I start debating about souls? Or religion? I asked a question about Shepard committing genocide. 

You keep saying that a pre-requisite for being a rational agent is to have a soul and emotions.  You use nothing to back this up other than an appeal intuition.  You are injecting it into the conversation.

[M0keys]

NUM13ER wrote...

I never fails to depress me how Hilter gets dragged into anything. Quite literally anything.

Racial clensing isn't exactly what I'd call a 7 Degrees of Kevin Bacon game when it comes to Hitler.

[CronoDragoon]

Damn it someone change their avatar! Hate it when the same avatar debates with itself!

[zenoxis]

The Irish Man wrote...

 When the relays blew up it wasn't like the exposion from the arrival relay. The relays simply fell apart leaving all the races stranded in their own systems. During the destroy ending Shepard only kills all synthetics. The star child never said he would kill all life. The explosions from the individual relays most likely transported everyone to different places as seen with the Normandy. I'm pretty sure everyone didn't die because the alliance soldiers were stil on Earth after the blast.

Lol killing all synthetics IS Genocide. Curiously enough, it's the only ending where Shepard has a chance of living.

[Kath]

 I don't see why this needs to be debated. Mass Effect is a science FICTION world where it has been established that the Geth are a people. In ME3, Tali even says that they (or at least Legion) have a soul:

(skip to 3:04)

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Katherine, 11 avril 2012 - 05:08 .

[Nobrandminda]

The Irish Man wrote...

spartan5127 wrote...

The Irish Man wrote...

BioWare I seriously hope you close this thread. I'm sorry for starting a fire that could cause a religious debate about souls on your forums.

No one is debating the existance or nonexistance of souls. As far as i am concerned, you are the only one bringing the religious and soul component into this conversation.

When did I start debating about souls? Or religion? I asked a question about Shepard committing genocide. 

The Irish Man wrote...
Synthetics aren't naturally organic beings. Your killing off robots that have enough written code in them to make their own decisions.

 
You denied that Geth are alive.  This sparked a debate.  It's not even the slightest bit strange or inappropriote that a debate about the nature of synthetic life would include the question of the existance of a soul.  In fact, that's exactly how the Morning War started.

It was a simple question: does this unit have a soul?

Modifié par Nobrandminda, 11 avril 2012 - 05:10 .

[shepard1038]

zenoxis wrote...

The Irish Man wrote...

 When the relays blew up it wasn't like the exposion from the arrival relay. The relays simply fell apart leaving all the races stranded in their own systems. During the destroy ending Shepard only kills all synthetics. The star child never said he would kill all life. The explosions from the individual relays most likely transported everyone to different places as seen with the Normandy. I'm pretty sure everyone didn't die because the alliance soldiers were stil on Earth after the blast.

Lol killing all synthetics IS Genocide. Curiously enough, it's the only ending where Shepard has a chance of living.

Killing synthetics is not genocide. Killing organics is genocide. wheter you think that killing synthetics is good or
wrong thats up to another debate. Also the Geth and Edi were prepared to die to destroy the reapers.

Modifié par shepard1038, 11 avril 2012 - 05:13 .

[The Irish Man]

I am a firm believer that I have a soul because of my religion and what I have been taught. All human beings have emotions and feelings that can be expressed throughout daily life. I cannot prove that I have a soul but I can believe in it. My main question was "Who said Shepard committed genocide"? I believe that the geth are a sentient group yet they cannot express the same feelings that humans have like loving one another and so on. I believe that Shepard killing off the geth with all other synthetics is not genocide due to the fact that they were created by the quarians and that they cannot live like human beings. This is my main point and I believe this because I have been taught that "organics" have souls. I know we can't prove that we have souls. I will support your opinion either way. 

Modifié par The Irish Man, 11 avril 2012 - 05:21 .

[Killa rican]

shepard1038 wrote...

zenoxis wrote...

The Irish Man wrote...

 When the relays blew up it wasn't like the exposion from the arrival relay. The relays simply fell apart leaving all the races stranded in their own systems. During the destroy ending Shepard only kills all synthetics. The star child never said he would kill all life. The explosions from the individual relays most likely transported everyone to different places as seen with the Normandy. I'm pretty sure everyone didn't die because the alliance soldiers were stil on Earth after the blast.

Lol killing all synthetics IS Genocide. Curiously enough, it's the only ending where Shepard has a chance of living.

Killing synthetics is not genocide. Killing organics is genocide. wheter you think that killing synthetics is good or
wrong thats up to another debate. Also the Geth and Edi were prepared to die to destroy the reapers.

Nothing more then indifference . All creatures, all "life" has a right to live and exist. The human race has a strong disregard for the life of insects and animals imagine for synthetics one day. If the philosophy of materialism is true, then it holds high potential for AI to become a reality one day, functioning like we would, since technially we are biological "machines".