132 réponses à ce sujet

[Oko123]

DarkKindness wrote...

Oko123 wrote...

Quite the opposite actually. I tend to run Silver more times than not unless someone specifically asks me to do Gold. Now to be fair yes, with a premade group of people on any given map you would be able to control the spawns at a much easier rate. I tend to find that with randoms especially most people will stick in or near the LZ of any given map and it is left to me to sort of spread out and control said spawn. Either way any map still only has a certain amount of spawns and once you're familiarized with them the vision would still be a very minor and in my opinion highly superfluous option. (Especially compared to 10% damage)

Speed is still up in the air, but I still feel a good adrenaline module could easily replace that while 10% damage molded into the bonus from your cloak as well is just invaluable.

On the flip side of that coin, though, the speed boost from an Adrenaline Module stacks with the passive speed boost from the evolution, and I still think that it's hard to pass up the defensive utility that kind of speed can bring to an otherwise very fragile class.

On Silver, I really don't think that the 10% damage is wholly necessary - it only comes in to play against Banshees, Brutes, Atlases, and Primes, since you can 1-2 shot anything less than that with the cloak bonus alone, not to mention what the Proximity Mine damage and damage boost could add to your burst output.

At any rate, I feel that they're both valid choices and that there are such solid arguments for either evolution that we'll never reach a genuine consensus; this particular evolution is purely a matter of personal preference and playstyle.

I believe you put it best within the original post as the different difficulties we play on will present different opportunities. With gold anything to increase your damage is going to be a plus whereas survivability tends to be less favored as you will most likely be downed at the same rate anyways. When you hit you definitely want to hit hard. Silver is much more forgiving and, in my opinion, more fun because it lets you mess around with variable specs and guns, etc.

But I always do love taking out Brutes and Banshees in a matter of ~5-10 seconds alone. 

[DarkKindness]

Re-edited the first post to include suggestions for the possible 5/5/6/6/4 (or maybe 5/6/6/6/3?) build that AreleX seems to be using.

Looks like the current contenders are 5/3/6/6/6, 6/5/6/6/3, and 5/5/6/6/4. I'm sure that a case could also be made for 5/6/6/6/3.

Edit: Man, but this class is insane.  There are no skills that you can look at and say "Nope, not putting points there!" - they're just all that good.  I think that BioWare did a fantastic job designing the GI (and both of the Geth classes, from what I've read about the Engineer that I haven't unlocked yet), since there are so many builds that look to be competitive.  Very refreshing from some of the dump skill/cookie-cutter builds I've started seeing in the original classes.

Modifié par DarkKindness, 11 avril 2012 - 06:41 .

[DarkKindness]

Oko123 wrote...

I believe you put it best within the original post as the different difficulties we play on will present different opportunities. With gold anything to increase your damage is going to be a plus whereas survivability tends to be less favored as you will most likely be downed at the same rate anyways. When you hit you definitely want to hit hard. Silver is much more forgiving and, in my opinion, more fun because it lets you mess around with variable specs and guns, etc.

But I always do love taking out Brutes and Banshees in a matter of ~5-10 seconds alone. 

Yeah, I'm starting to come around on the idea of Proximity Mine.  I'll definitely have to give it a shot on some Public Silver matches tomorrow to get a general feel for it.  I think that I'm going to miss the safety net of having Advanced Hardware maxed, but we'll see how much of that is just in my head.

[PaperAlien]

So does Hunter Mode take 50% of base 750 shields or including upgrades? Someone already asked this but I didn't see an answer and I'm curious too.

[DarkKindness]

PaperAlien wrote...

So does Hunter Mode take 50% of base 750 shields or including upgrades? Someone already asked this but I didn't see an answer and I'm curious too.

I don't think that we have an answer yet and I play on console, so I won't be able to come up with one (since there are no numbers displayed in-game, and you can't check numbers with abilities on out-of-game).  It's possible that a PC user could dredge up the formula for it, though, so an answer isn't wholly out of the question... just difficult to get 

[heybigmoney]

I just find the 10% buff not as friendly given the nature of the gps. It can already one shot practically anyone out of cloak anyway even without a proxy to soften them up. If it takes multiple shots to down a boss, then I feel im not gaining enough to give up the increased speed and vision. And without the increased distance i do agree that hunter vision is a gimmick and only good for its passive buffs.

Tho its only been a few hours since we've had the character. Ill experiment with the damage increase and other weapons as well to see what works.

[PaperAlien]

Sure hope it's base. Most stuff concerning damage BONUSES are based off base, but bad stuff always seems to be more... D:

[DarkKindness]

heybigmoney wrote...

Tho its only been a few hours since we've had the character. Ill experiment with the damage increase and other weapons as well to see what works.

I doubt that we're going to find a better weapon for the shotgun GI build than the GPS, honestly.  It was one of the best available shotguns before we got the Geth classes, and the Geth classes get added bonuses to it on top of its alread formidable potential.  We definitely need to keep experimenting with builds, though, to flush out what works best.

[DarkKindness]

PaperAlien wrote...

Sure hope it's base. Most stuff concerning damage BONUSES are based off base, but bad stuff always seems to be more... D:

Yeah, if it's based off of total shields at the time the ability is activated (which, as you noted, seems likely since it's a penalty), it cuts a lot of the benefit out of the later ranks of Advanced Hardware and makes the Proximity Mine builds start to look a lot more attractive.

[Oko123]

heybigmoney wrote...

I just find the 10% buff not as friendly given the nature of the gps. It can already one shot practically anyone out of cloak anyway even without a proxy to soften them up. If it takes multiple shots to down a boss, then I feel im not gaining enough to give up the increased speed and vision. And without the increased distance i do agree that hunter vision is a gimmick and only good for its passive buffs.

Tho its only been a few hours since we've had the character. Ill experiment with the damage increase and other weapons as well to see what works.

Sorry, but I just see the "Vision" part of the Hunter mode to be just an extra goodie in the bag. I honestly don't see how it would make or break a game or even a single round on Silver or Gold. People have been doing perfectly fine without it playing as the same style of CQC Infiltrators.

All I have done with my SI up to this point is use the GPS and flank, on any difficulty. It is simply easy to predict the spawns in this game to the point that checking through walls to see where I already know they are going to be spawning would be superfluous.

Edit: And any extra damage is GOOD damage

Modifié par Oko123, 11 avril 2012 - 06:52 .

[Repojam]

DarkKindness wrote...
Edit: Man, but this class is insane.  There are no skills that you can look at and say "Nope, not putting points there!" - they're just all that good.  I think that BioWare did a fantastic job designing the GI (and both of the Geth classes, from what I've read about the Engineer that I haven't unlocked yet), since there are so many builds that look to be competitive.  Very refreshing from some of the dump skill/cookie-cutter builds I've started seeing in the original classes.

GE is pretty much in the same boat.  The Geth turret can go offensive, defensive, or a blend.  Makes for a lot of interesting and viable build options.

[datako12]

DarkKindness wrote...

It's kind of sounding like the low to no Proximity Mine build is probably the more viable choice for Silver, and that the build that includes the Proximity Mine debuff is probably going to be the better choice for Gold.  As is often noted on this forum, Fitness doesn't net you a huge increase in survivability on Gold, while the damage increase from the Proximity Mine debuff gives you a considerably better chance of taking out a strong threat before it even knows you're there.  

That said, I'd be willing to bet that a build that skimps on Proximity Mine in favor of Fitness would do just fine on Gold; it'd just be less of a team player and a bit less bursty.

i can vouch for no prox mine working on gold, but like you said it is a bit less bursty, especially against large targets like primes and banshees, brutes are a cakewalk though as long as you get them before they get close

Korjyan wrote...


On another note: does anybody know if hunter mode takes 50% of your max shields or just your base shields of 750.

cant say for certain this is how it works, but when i had my shields pushed up to over 1200, and i came out of hunter mode my shield bar would jump to about 3/4 full and then regen, this leads me to believe that it takes 50% of your base shields, no clue if thats true or not though

[Lmaoboat]

Just thought I should point out that the accuracy boost combined with smart choke on the claymore makes the spread even tighter than one would thing.

[Oko123]

Repojam wrote...

DarkKindness wrote...
Edit: Man, but this class is insane.  There are no skills that you can look at and say "Nope, not putting points there!" - they're just all that good.  I think that BioWare did a fantastic job designing the GI (and both of the Geth classes, from what I've read about the Engineer that I haven't unlocked yet), since there are so many builds that look to be competitive.  Very refreshing from some of the dump skill/cookie-cutter builds I've started seeing in the original classes.

GE is pretty much in the same boat.  The Geth turret can go offensive, defensive, or a blend.  Makes for a lot of interesting and viable build options.

My only problem with this is that it still builds off of fundamental abilities we all know and have put into use beforehand, other than the Geth Hunter mode. Once they give us a class with 3 truly unique abilities, I will agree to this

[DarkKindness]

Ran some quick math after a respec card - by foregoing the last three ranks of Advanced Hardware, you're losing ~300 shields, ~100 health, and 15% shield regen delay bonus.

Since the "Fitness" line of skills are percentile-based and the Geth have one of the lowest health/shield totals to start with, that line of talents really isn't gaining us a whole lot. I'd be willing to bet that the points are better invested into Proximity Mine/Tactical Cloak to improve damage, honestly, with only a 400 effective hp gain out of the investment in AH (excluding the shield regen bonus).

Modifié par DarkKindness, 11 avril 2012 - 07:02 .

[DarkKindness]

Oko123 wrote...

Repojam wrote...

DarkKindness wrote...
Edit: Man, but this class is insane.  There are no skills that you can look at and say "Nope, not putting points there!" - they're just all that good.  I think that BioWare did a fantastic job designing the GI (and both of the Geth classes, from what I've read about the Engineer that I haven't unlocked yet), since there are so many builds that look to be competitive.  Very refreshing from some of the dump skill/cookie-cutter builds I've started seeing in the original classes.

GE is pretty much in the same boat.  The Geth turret can go offensive, defensive, or a blend.  Makes for a lot of interesting and viable build options.

My only problem with this is that it still builds off of fundamental abilities we all know and have put into use beforehand, other than the Geth Hunter mode. Once they give us a class with 3 truly unique abilities, I will agree to this [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

 

The advantage here, though, is the strong combination that the abilities allow.  We haven't had an Infiltrator of any race with the sort of nasty burst potential that the GI has, and isn't that what infiltrators are really all about?  Also, the fact that it lends itself almost perfectly to a shotgun infiltrator and having that huge burst ignore the shield gate is just fantastic.

Modifié par DarkKindness, 11 avril 2012 - 07:02 .

[Oko123]

DarkKindness wrote...

Oko123 wrote...

Repojam wrote...

DarkKindness wrote...
Edit: Man, but this class is insane.  There are no skills that you can look at and say "Nope, not putting points there!" - they're just all that good.  I think that BioWare did a fantastic job designing the GI (and both of the Geth classes, from what I've read about the Engineer that I haven't unlocked yet), since there are so many builds that look to be competitive.  Very refreshing from some of the dump skill/cookie-cutter builds I've started seeing in the original classes.

GE is pretty much in the same boat.  The Geth turret can go offensive, defensive, or a blend.  Makes for a lot of interesting and viable build options.

My only problem with this is that it still builds off of fundamental abilities we all know and have put into use beforehand, other than the Geth Hunter mode. Once they give us a class with 3 truly unique abilities, I will agree to this [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

 

The advantage here, though, is the strong combination that the abilities allow.  We haven't had an Infiltrator of any race with the sort of nasty burst potential that the GI has, and isn't that what infiltrators are really all about?  Also, the fact that it lends itself almost perfectly to a shotgun infiltrator and having that huge burst ignore the shield gate is just fantastic.

I've always leaned more towards a shotgun Infiltrator even since the demo was released, though I know most do not share that sentiment. Honestly the only bonus damage he makes is from his superiority in using Geth based weapons no and of course the Hunter vision. Other then that, the setup of his damage will be no different than the lizard man.

Modifié par Oko123, 11 avril 2012 - 07:08 .

[Repojam]

Oko123 wrote...

I've always leaned more towards a shotgun Infiltrator even since the demo was released, though I know most do not share that sentiment. Honestly the only bonus damage he makes is from his superiority in using Geth based weapons no? Other then that, the setup of his damage will be no different than the lizard man.

Geth weapons, and then the damage bonus from hunter mode.  Worth giving up energy drain for hunter mode?  That's the question I have to ask myself when I think about it from a numbers standpoint.

Meanwhile, I go 'zomg!  robawtttt!' and play a Geth.  

[heybigmoney]

Oko123 wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

I just find the 10% buff not as friendly given the nature of the gps. It can already one shot practically anyone out of cloak anyway even without a proxy to soften them up. If it takes multiple shots to down a boss, then I feel im not gaining enough to give up the increased speed and vision. And without the increased distance i do agree that hunter vision is a gimmick and only good for its passive buffs.

Tho its only been a few hours since we've had the character. Ill experiment with the damage increase and other weapons as well to see what works.

Sorry, but I just see the "Vision" part of the Hunter mode to be just an extra goodie in the bag. I honestly don't see how it would make or break a game or even a single round on Silver or Gold. People have been doing perfectly fine without it playing as the same style of CQC Infiltrators.

All I have done with my SI up to this point is use the GPS and flank, on any difficulty. It is simply easy to predict the spawns in this game to the point that checking through walls to see where I already know they are going to be spawning would be superfluous.

Edit: And any extra damage is GOOD damage

SI has significantly more tools in his favor that makes small tactical flubs a non factor.  I find the increased hunter vision and speed a good guarantee that I wont go down.  Having constant awareness through hunter vision is valuable since there is no room for error at all with this class given he cant just energy drain if he misses one guy on his flank.

[Oko123]

Repojam wrote...

Oko123 wrote...

I've always leaned more towards a shotgun Infiltrator even since the demo was released, though I know most do not share that sentiment. Honestly the only bonus damage he makes is from his superiority in using Geth based weapons no? Other then that, the setup of his damage will be no different than the lizard man.

 
Geth weapons, and then the damage bonus from hunter mode.  Worth giving up energy drain for hunter mode?  That's the question I have to ask myself when I think about it from a numbers standpoint.

Meanwhile, I go 'zomg!  robawtttt!' and play a Geth.  

I love the Geth and from day one was wishing they would implement them as playable races. I will most likely play the GI as my go to Infiltrator once I unlock him for sheer aesthetic value. I just don't know if I would put him above the SI just yet. Ernergy drain is quite nice, especially in the survivability department, but extra damage is always welcome.

Modifié par Oko123, 11 avril 2012 - 07:13 .

[Oko123]

heybigmoney wrote...

Oko123 wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

I just find the 10% buff not as friendly given the nature of the gps. It can already one shot practically anyone out of cloak anyway even without a proxy to soften them up. If it takes multiple shots to down a boss, then I feel im not gaining enough to give up the increased speed and vision. And without the increased distance i do agree that hunter vision is a gimmick and only good for its passive buffs.

Tho its only been a few hours since we've had the character. Ill experiment with the damage increase and other weapons as well to see what works.

Sorry, but I just see the "Vision" part of the Hunter mode to be just an extra goodie in the bag. I honestly don't see how it would make or break a game or even a single round on Silver or Gold. People have been doing perfectly fine without it playing as the same style of CQC Infiltrators.

All I have done with my SI up to this point is use the GPS and flank, on any difficulty. It is simply easy to predict the spawns in this game to the point that checking through walls to see where I already know they are going to be spawning would be superfluous.

Edit: And any extra damage is GOOD damage

SI has significantly more tools in his favor that makes small tactical flubs a non factor.  I find the increased hunter vision and speed a good guarantee that I wont go down.  Having constant awareness through hunter vision is valuable since there is no room for error at all with this class given he cant just energy drain if he misses one guy on his flank.

Honestly cloak should make any mistakes you could make null and void. Not only will enemies naturally approach you less because of the constant in and out (unless you are sticking near other teammates without cloak), but you can always use it for the full duration to really get out of a sticky situation. I agree he is squishier but I don't think that is make or break with the Infiltrator, and tunnel vision could still occur with the Hunter vision, especially with the sheer amount of mobs on Gold.

[Ragnar660]

So I just trial ran eight matches against cerberus, four on gold, four silver. Half of each was done with the 10% damage from Hunter, the other half with the speed/vision. I always had about the same score throughout every gold match, and it was pretty much steady at silver.

The only time I noticed a difference with the damage was definitely taking out an Atlus's shield. For anything that was shielded, two shots and it was dead. Phantoms were a cake, which was a welcome change since those things are almost as annoying as Hunters after their speed boost.

Honestly, I can't say 10% damage is worth it. The vision was the thing I missed more than the speed, but all in all, to each their own. I know for me, damage is superfluous and speed/vision is too good to pass up.

[DarkKindness]

Ragnar660 wrote...

So I just trial ran eight matches against cerberus, four on gold, four silver. Half of each was done with the 10% damage from Hunter, the other half with the speed/vision. I always had about the same score throughout every gold match, and it was pretty much steady at silver.

The only time I noticed a difference with the damage was definitely taking out an Atlus's shield. For anything that was shielded, two shots and it was dead. Phantoms were a cake, which was a welcome change since those things are almost as annoying as Hunters after their speed boost.

Honestly, I can't say 10% damage is worth it. The vision was the thing I missed more than the speed, but all in all, to each their own. I know for me, damage is superfluous and speed/vision is too good to pass up.

I just got done running a couple of trials with the Proximity Mine build that takes the Damage evolution over the Speed & Vision evolution, and felt the same way.  Proximity Mine is difficult for me, personally, to use, but it definitely adds a ton of damage on things like Atlases, which makes it a tough call for me.  The loss survivability did make a difference for me - it's a lot less likely to get outright killed by an errant grenade with those extra ~400 points of shield/hp.  I'm going to give myself a few more rounds to see if it's just a learning curve, but my natural inclination is toward the slightly lower damage, higher survivability 5/3/6/6/6 build.

[MrLee95]

Great thread! I just just unlocked the GI and I was so happy to see all the different playstyles I could choose from! Thanks OP and everyone for you input!!

Now hoping I get to unlock the GE!

[XCPTNL]

Well I've been playing some more and I guess I need to test a 5/3/6/6/6 build now to see if the additional fitness makes a difference and is worth it. In coordinated teams the GI works well even with low hp/shields but it can still be  a pain in the ass in some situations and I wish for a bit more survivability. So I'll have to try this although I don't want to sacrifice the proxy mine buff if possible.

I also never go out of huntermode and use it constantly. So I'm always at half shields. I actually find it a bad trade to "deactivate if you want to survive longer" because I usually benefit more from the added movement speed as well as the fact that I can find an easier path to escape and don't run into some camping enemy who takes me down.

I still have problems with the nasty decloaking bug that occurs on my next cloak whenever I break cloak by shooting instead of using a power (proxy mine) first to break cloak. Isn't that annoying for you as well or how do you deal with it?

Oh and regarding the Hunter Mode rank 6. I opted to go with vision/speed although a strong argument can be made for both evolutions. Generally I find it more useful to be fast and see far ahead because I run around a lot. I might pick damage though for the Engineer next time because I probably will be using him mainly in a defensive position, spamming Overload. And he doesn't do as much damage due to the lack of the cloak bonus. So probably damage for the Engineer and vision/speed for the Infiltrator.

Modifié par Korjyan, 11 avril 2012 - 09:03 .