15 réponses à ce sujet

[Hrungr]

For DA Next there was a little talk about how your companions might include some old faces. But in order to so, they would more than likely return at a greatly reduced level from when we last saw them - a la Anders.

Was there any explanation why Anders changed from a 35th level Kicker-Of-All-Things-Blight-y in Amaranthine to the 7th level Junior-Magechuck we see slumming it in the sewers of Kirwall? In this particular instance I can kinda rationalize it to myself as maybe the union between him and Justice simply... messed him up. And is essentially having to re-learn his trade all over again with his newly tailored brain. And maybe he had to sell all that high powered, obscenely expensive gear for bribes and whatnot to avoid the Wardens.

But it's a stretch. And not likely one you're going to be able to apply other old veterens returning.

How do people feel about this? Do people find it easy to hand-wave the descrepencies in power aside for the sake of the game?

Modifié par Hrungr, 11 avril 2012 - 04:48 .

[Dejajeva]

It's easy enough to not over-think it. Ultimately, I think you're not going to want to play the weakest link- and you're going to want the power to level up companions the way you want. I'm all for bringing back companions, but I don't necessarily need them as current companions. NPC cameos or other would work just fine for me. I like new blood.

[Aldandil]

I think DA has drawn a pretty hard line of story-gameplay segregation. Character levels definitely fall on the gameplay side of the line. I don't think the increase in character power is mentioned anywhere in-game. Everybody always thinks Hawke and the Warden are badass individuals from the get-go and the only thing that makes them more reputable are their achievements, not their relative power.

Same thing goes for Anders. Storywise, he was a powerful mage in every appearance, and there's no noticable difference. Gameplaywise, there are huge differences but since opponents scale to his level, it doesn't really matter. What this means is that there aren't any levels like in D&D, where every character's power, player or not, can be measured and compared. In DA, character level is strictly a gameplay feature and has little to do with the world or the story, at least that's my take on it. I don't particularly like this, but I can live with it.

[Maria Caliban]

They took an arrow to the knee.

Seriously though, all the events in Dragon Age II were Varric's story. In that story, the companion was far more powerful than they were in reality.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 11 avril 2012 - 06:58 .

[GodWood]

Gameplay story segregation

Gameplay story segregation

Gameplay story segregation

[Irx]

Can't think of any old companions I'd like to see again as companions really, also considering that any potential LIs from previous DAs would not make any sense. )

Well, maybe Velanna...

[philippe willaume]

GodWood wrote...

Gameplay story segregation

Gameplay story segregation

Gameplay story segregation

that and may be segregation between the story and the game mechanics
phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 11 avril 2012 - 10:01 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Hrungr wrote...
How do people feel about this? Do people find it easy to hand-wave the descrepencies in power aside for the sake of the game?

There are a few familiar faces that I wouldn't mind seeing and/or playing. It'squite possible that the new and next round of companions may include characters that we have not played before but have encountered, and therefore we wouldn't have first hand experience of their skill set/power.

As far as any perceived hand-waving over power... eh. It's not anything that troubles me because it is inherently a gameplay matter. If I had never played DA:A, I would have no idea what Anders mage profile consisted of, or what "level" he may have been at. He would be new to me. But having played DA:A, in DA2 I tried to see Anders from Hawke's perspective - Hawke doesn't know anything about the mage, what he can or cannot do. Overall, I was more concerned about the story element of who he was/is versus how powerful his spells could be. I expect I'll have the same feelings towards any returning friends and cohorts in the next game.

[AkiKishi]

I'd rather not , it makes very little sense that everyone suddenly forgot how to be competent.

[Clertar]

 Just like some people everybody pointed out, the DA games are pretty good at separating "rule levels" and a character's power level in their world. In DnD games, levels are a lot more embedded in the setting,  with CR and all, and you can have goblins and kobolds go from being a life threat to single-handedly killing tons of them within a few months of a character's lifetime.

In DA the separation is easier and less awkward. Just like the 1st level mage in DA:O can end up in the Fade and face their harrowing only being able to cast an arcane shield right before being recommended by the first enchanter as a powerful young mage, and a mage Hawke will be fleeing Lothering knowing only one spell, just like their less powerful and less experienced younger sister. 

Modifié par Clertar, 11 avril 2012 - 10:49 .

[PsychoBlonde]

Hrungr wrote...

Was there any explanation why Anders changed from a 35th level Kicker-Of-All-Things-Blight-y in Amaranthine to the 7th level Junior-Magechuck we see slumming it in the sewers of Kirwall? In this particular instance I can kinda rationalize it to myself as maybe the union between him and Justice simply... messed him up. And is essentially having to re-learn his trade all over again with his newly tailored brain. And maybe he had to sell all that high powered, obscenely expensive gear for bribes and whatnot to avoid the Wardens.

Nah, see, all his existing gear and abilities didn't work with the new talent system, so he had to start over from scratch.  Fortunately he had some unspent points left over . . .

I've always liked the idea of playing a game where the "game physics" ARE the "real world" physics.  It might be a bit silly and over-the-top, but at least you wouldn't have those moments where NPC's die dramatically and the player is like, um, RES SCROLL?!

Btw, that first sentence there is pure comedy gold.

[Eyeofanger]

Hrungr wrote...

For DA Next there was a little talk about how your companions might include some old faces. But in order to so, they would more than likely return at a greatly reduced level from when we last saw them - a la Anders.

Was there any explanation why Anders changed from a 35th level Kicker-Of-All-Things-Blight-y in Amaranthine to the 7th level Junior-Magechuck we see slumming it in the sewers of Kirwall? In this particular instance I can kinda rationalize it to myself as maybe the union between him and Justice simply... messed him up. And is essentially having to re-learn his trade all over again with his newly tailored brain. And maybe he had to sell all that high powered, obscenely expensive gear for bribes and whatnot to avoid the Wardens.

But it's a stretch. And not likely one you're going to be able to apply other old veterens returning.

How do people feel about this? Do people find it easy to hand-wave the descrepencies in power aside for the sake of the game?

I don't see the problem with old characters reduced back to level 1. It is gameplay not story as long as it does not mess with the story it's fine people argue about the warden's level and skills if he returns for da3 they could reduce his level back to 1. Again I don't have a problem with this it would be fun to max out the warden's level and obtain new skills.

[Big I]

There's always been a disconnect between story and gameplay mechanics, from cutscenes (Mage Hawke taking out Prosper and Leopold with fire even if they have no fire spells) to character introduction (Oghren's one of the best warriors of his generation, but he still has to level like the mage who just left the circle for the first time).


That being the case, I'd imagine that if characters came back that'd be after being hit with the nerf bat. Is that ideal? I'd say no. I'd much prefer them coming back with a relative level boost, and/or a personal class or bonus that references their history as a badass.

[brushyourteeth]

I think this is kind of a normal (albeit annoying) game mechanic. It happens with protags in just about every game series between sequels. Link lost the master sword, Samus' armor is gone, Ezio forgot how to use items, etc.

Like Dejajeva said, just try not to think too hard about it. If counting inconsistencies helps you sleep before bedtime, try and focus on Anders' face and voice transplants!

[Dejajeva]

brushyourteeth wrote...

I think this is kind of a normal (albeit annoying) game mechanic. It happens with protags in just about every game series between sequels. Link lost the master sword, Samus' armor is gone, Ezio forgot how to use items, etc.

Like Dejajeva said, just try not to think too hard about it. If counting inconsistencies helps you sleep before bedtime, try and focus on Anders' face and voice transplants!

I will say though that Adam Howden did a wonderful job. Watching clips of him and Gideon on youtube talking about DA is the weirdest experience.

[brushyourteeth]

^ agree about Adam. I will have to check out that video on youtube.