126 réponses à ce sujet

[Etereoooo]

Not this again...

[lillitheris]

Madosu wrote...

A good enough idea but it is simply made up of too many assumptions. To "get it" you have to base your reasoning with more that assumptions, and det some actual facts. We never see Joker turn around and comparing the sequence with the Normandy it looks alot like when you travel through a Mass Relay. Besides IF he did turn around, why does he not fly into the explosion instead of away from it??

He was flying toward Charon (to get away from the possibly exploding Citadel that he'd gotten too close to in an attempt to get Shepard) but just before they got there, the relay started looking really sketchy from the energy beam, and EDI's sensors and calculations showed it'd be best to get away, so they flipped around again, taking them straight back toward Earth again.

[GrimIntent89]

This is quite possibly the best thing i've ever read. You sir, win the internetz.

12/10

[sargon1986]

What is this, I don't even.. 

[lillitheris]

ZIPO396 wrote...

The speed that light was moving at covered a solar system in just a few seconds (takes a lot longer than that for light) it took just a few seconds for it to catch Joker after you see it start gaining and he nearly matched it's speed. They were definiely moving faster than the speed of light easy.

The energy beam was moving extremely rapidly, the shockwave not as quickly. The Normandy is clearly accelerating still. The acceleration needs to be much more controlled inside a system – extremely dangerous – than it normally, i.e. outside the system barrier, is.

Also it's not an ion drive it's a ME core it's the reason they can do FTL by removing most of their mass it's also how they stop safely but you'd still need engines. If they turn the thing off at FTL speeds they'd probably get ripped to shreds.

No, the Tantalus is for FTL and high-delta-v system maneuvering. The ion drives are for atmospheric and other relatively lower-v operations (such as docking). See Codex.

[xenu101]

So, I'm still confused. Why does Joker crash land the Normandy on Endor?

Modifié par xenu101, 11 avril 2012 - 09:05 .

[lillitheris]

xenu101 wrote...

So, I'm still confused. Why does Joker crash land the Normandy on Endor?

It's Earth. The Endor thing was just a joke by someone in the thread. It's obviously silly.

Modifié par lillitheris, 11 avril 2012 - 09:07 .

[Gwtheyrn]

Yeah, I don't think so. You're making too many leaps of logic based on extremely limited information.

@Allan Schumacher, you made my morning with that comment. LOL

[lillitheris]

Gwtheyrn wrote...

Yeah, I don't think so. You're making too many leaps of logic based on extremely limited information.

I've clearly delineated everything. If you don't get it, please ask, and I'll be happy to clarify.

[ZIPO396]

lillitheris wrote...
The energy beam was moving extremely rapidly, the shockwave not as quickly. The Normandy is clearly accelerating still. The acceleration needs to be much more controlled inside a system – extremely dangerous – than it normally, i.e. outside the system barrier, is.

The shockwave still covered a solarsystem in a matter of seconds I wasn't talking about the beam to the relays. Still looks like FTL based on what you see when you look out the cockpit window and how fast Joker had to go just to nearly match the shockwave.

lillitheris wrote...
No, the Tantalus is for FTL and high-delta-v system maneuvering. The ion drives are for atmospheric and other relatively lower-v operations (such as docking). See Codex.

Yeah but you can't use those to slow down. My point has been based on the drive core which they have to keep active as they're still moving at FTL

[Gwtheyrn]

lillitheris wrote...

Madosu wrote...

A good enough idea but it is simply made up of too many assumptions. To "get it" you have to base your reasoning with more that assumptions, and det some actual facts. We never see Joker turn around and comparing the sequence with the Normandy it looks alot like when you travel through a Mass Relay. Besides IF he did turn around, why does he not fly into the explosion instead of away from it??

He was flying toward Charon (to get away from the possibly exploding Citadel that he'd gotten too close to in an attempt to get Shepard) but just before they got there, the relay started looking really sketchy from the energy beam, and EDI's sensors and calculations showed it'd be best to get away, so they flipped around again, taking them straight back toward Earth again.

How do you KNOW he was flying towards Charon? There is nothing at all inferred about the direction he was flying except in the short cut-scene where it's clear he was flying AWAY from the beam of colour. This is, at best, an assumption on your part and not based on any imperical evidence presented to us.

Also, one other major hole I noticed in your theory: If my squadmate who was with me when I got Harbinger's laser to the face was well enough to not only board the Normandy afterwards, but walk out of the wreckage under his own power and apparently without a scratch, why didn't he go through the beam himself? Or better yet, help drag my gimping ass towards it? Am I really to believe that Garrus, uninjured by Harbinger, ate some conveniently placed popcorn as he watched me nearly crawl to the beam, get shot by Marauder Shields, and just said "Eh... good enough. I don't REALLY need to see it through to the end with Shepard after all."?

[lillitheris]

[quote]ZIPO396 wrote...

The shockwave still covered a solarsystem in a matter of seconds I wasn't talking about the beam to the relays. Still looks like FTL based on what you see when you look out the cockpit window and how fast Joker had to go just to nearly match the shockwave.
[/quote]

No, see, the Destroy energy traveled fast (the red you see on the galaxy map is the Cherenkov equivalent in the FTL space), the shockwave is a different thing.

[quote]ZIPO396 wrote...
[quote]lillitheris wrote...
No, the Tantalus is for FTL and high-delta-v system maneuvering. The ion drives are for atmospheric and other relatively lower-v operations (such as docking). See Codex.
[/quote]
Yeah but you can't use those to slow down. My point has been based on the drive core which they have to keep active as they're still moving at FTL
[/quote][/quote]

Sure you can, that's what they're for. They're not very efficient, which is why they're not normally used, but you have to make do with what you've got – and it's very good that the main drives didn't get destroyed immediately, they kind of went every which way which caused extra deceleration, leaving them still traveling in the direction of Earth, but at a manageable speed. They – or EDI, really – could have also achieved additional deceleration by using barriers to graze the various debris they would have come across, but I can't find sufficient proof to assert that this was the case.

Modifié par lillitheris, 11 avril 2012 - 09:28 .

[Gwtheyrn]

lillitheris wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

The shockwave still covered a solarsystem in a matter of seconds I wasn't talking about the beam to the relays. Still looks like FTL based on what you see when you look out the cockpit window and how fast Joker had to go just to nearly match the shockwave.

No, see, the Destroy energy traveled fast (the red you see on the galaxy map is the Cherenkov equivalent in the FTL space), the shockwave is a different thing.

ZIPO396 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...
No, the Tantalus is for FTL and high-delta-v system maneuvering. The ion drives are for atmospheric and other relatively lower-v operations (such as docking). See Codex.

Yeah but you can't use those to slow down. My point has been based on the drive core which they have to keep active as they're still moving at FTL

Sure you can, that's what they're for. They're not very efficient, which is why they're not normally used, but you have to make do with what you've got – and it's very good that the main drives didn't get destroyed immediately, they kind of went every which way which caused extra deceleration, leaving them still traveling in the direction of Earth, but at a manageable speed. They – or EDI, really – could have also achieved additional deceleration by using barriers to graze the various debris they would have come across, but I can't find sufficient proof to assert that this was the case.

Straws grasped.

Modifié par Gwtheyrn, 11 avril 2012 - 09:35 .

[Azmahoony]

If it were true why wasn't any of this explained in the ending, or by Bioware on these forums?

[lillitheris]

Gwtheyrn wrote...

How do you KNOW he was flying towards Charon? There is nothing at all inferred about the direction he was flying except in the short cut-scene where it's clear he was flying AWAY from the beam of colour. This is, at best, an assumption on your part and not based on any imperical evidence presented to us.

He wasn't flying away from the beam (which went toward Charon), he was flying away from the ‘ripple’ energy wave and the shockwave from the Charon relay. The direction away from Earth was obvious because of the potentially catastrophic explosion of the Citadel (that ended up not being so bad), and if you look at the screens that are open, they're the relay plotting ones, indicating that they were in progress of setting up a relay jump. The logical assumption based on those facts is that they were going to Charon, but of course that is ultimately just a 98% confidence because nobody actually says it in the clip.

Also, one other major hole I noticed in your theory: If my squadmate who was with me when I got Harbinger's laser to the face was well enough to not only board the Normandy afterwards, but walk out of the wreckage under his own power and apparently without a scratch, why didn't he go through the beam himself? Or better yet, help drag my gimping ass towards it? Am I really to believe that Garrus, uninjured by Harbinger, ate some conveniently placed popcorn as he watched me nearly crawl to the beam, get shot by Marauder Shields, and just said "Eh... good enough. I don't REALLY need to see it through to the end with Shepard after all."?

Chakwas took care of them, and they all got treated before getting out of the craft. The problem was that all sensors were offline after the crash landing (as was EDI, the only person who had any solid idea where they were, because the AI core was somewhat damaged as you can see in the panned shot), and the viewports either under crushed bulkheads or in the case of the cockpit, under a pile of turf. So they had to take a few hours to gel everyone to working shape before venturing out because they weren't quite sure where they were, and only opened the hatch after Tali (or Adams, or Donnelly, or whoever in your case) managed to bring EDI back online and she indicated she believed they had crashed on Earth.

If you looked back in the scene where Marauder Shields tried to save you, you notice that there's a large zone of destruction around you; your friends (who, notice, weren't right next to you when you were running, a wise choice) were further out, fortunately, and only got pinned by one of the trucks (the one you see flying just before you do the mini-blackout).

The only comms that work when you get up the beam are the local ones (with Anderson) and the fleet ones from Hackett. The terrestrial communication links directly from the squad local comms to the fleet were destroyed by the reaper. You can see the smoking remains of the M34a mobile link tower on the far right of the image just before the husks come.

Modifié par lillitheris, 11 avril 2012 - 10:03 .

[Jadebaby]

likta_ wrote...

xCaptainAmazing wrote...

what the... I don't even... ?!

[legion999]

I must ask, how can one think about this through so much but not realise how improbable and speculative it is?

[Gwtheyrn]

That's not Earth. Earth has only one moon, and no the second one isn't Phobos or Deimos because they aren't spherical and are much, much smaller than Luna. Nor is it Mars, because Mars is so red, we can see the colour from Earth in the sky without a telescope.

Again, you're making a whole heap of assumptions about actions and intentions of characters without anything other than your own speculations to prove that they actually took those actions or had those intentions. Too many leaps of logic.

[The Protheans]

So earth gained a massive new moon and that is meant to be believable?

[lillitheris]

Gwtheyrn wrote...

That's not Earth. Earth has only one moon,

We are all…most of us…aware of this previously accurate fact.

… and no the second one isn't Phobos or Deimos because they aren't spherical and are much, much smaller than Luna.

It's obviously not Phobos, which was destroyed. It was on the ‘outer’ side of Mars whereas Deimos was just ‘peeking’ and most of it was shielded from the direct, abrasive blast by Mars before disintegrating. The visual size difference is, obviously, just a difference in proximity.

Nor is it Mars, because Mars is so red, we can see the colour from Earth in the sky without a telescope.

Right, it's obviously not Mars. Mars would be red, if it hadn't gotten blown to small bits.

[lillitheris]

The Protheans wrote...

So earth gained a massive new moon and that is meant to be believable?

It's not a massive moon. It's actually very small (and even smaller because it took some damage), it's just really close.

[ZtalkerRM]

rma2110 wrote...

But I think I remember seeing two moons where the Normandy landed, so I think the Earth is out.

"That's no moon...it's a space station!"

The ending was bad. Face it.
From a phylosophical point of view, I appreciate what they tried to do, but the execution was bad.
Just look at other 'shock' endings in games, like Red Dead Redemption, FF7 or Zelda: Windwaker. All were incredibly sad and had major characters (or even the PC) die for a greater cause.  The way that was done was better then this.
Look, even Stephen Hawking admitted in 2004 he was wrong on his black-hole theory. It's not like great minds are flawless. What we expect from Bioware is (probably) insane. Upto Dragon Age 2, every game they made was a genre-defining miracle. They single-handedly revived Lucasarts, brought Baldurs Gate into the 2010's.
They simply dropped the ball here: It happens.

And I bet they know there will be consequences. For starters, I think many people won't pre-order the next Bio game or not buy it at all. I know I won't.

[Astralify]

Bebuse wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

rma2110 wrote...

But I think I remember seeing two moons where the Normandy landed, so I think the Earth is out.

That's no moon it's a space station!

>.>

This is not the ending you are looking for.

WIN!

[pablosplinter]

8/10.

Nice. Would read again

[ardias89]

Hmm.... thinking.... thinking.... maybe you are right....