31 réponses à ce sujet

[hangmans tree]

I need genuine input on this because I think the whole game glitched on me.

Given the relation built in the past weher I romanced Ash I find it strange that Liara acts more girlfriend-like and steals screeen time from Ash. She has a lot more to say and conversations are more vivid...

Why is that so? Did BW put a mark on Ash due to popularity or something? I find it annoying.

Ash was a well established character that largerly missed out on all ME2 story, even Horizon meeting was cheapened by the WTF! moment when she spoke.
But alas, I chose Tali for my partner at that time, she simply grew on me during Ashes' absence... but the thing is that in ME3 Ash and Shep should have a lot more common ground not to mention the ex-relationship... al the stories about her family (sisters, dad), ranks earned and what not - shes put in the intensive care for third part of the game. Wut?
The one that consoles Shep and speaks of his mental wear is (again) Liara.... The one to praise and store his legacy in a VI is (again) Liara.... sometimes i was thinking (as much as I love Liara character - like a sister to my Shep) stop stealing otheres spotlight!

What was your experience? Do you see my confusion ar em I being.. a little delusional as always?

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

where is the point ? my favorite charecter is Liara, Liara is the only Li for all my Female Shepard,

i love Liara.

[hangmans tree]

FRANCESCO84Inn wrote...

where is the point ? my favorite charecter is Liara, Liara is the only Li for all my Female Shepard,

i love Liara.

I totally miss the point of your post

[ashwind]

Well... I wont deny. Liara does receive a lot of attention. Tali is not bad at all, might not have as many lines as Liara but all her lines are great. I dont feel that Liara stole too much of Tali's spotlight. Rannoch was.... beautiful.

As for Ash... the most "interesting" thing she ever said in all 3 series is "I cant tell the aliens apart, they all look like animals to me."

I mean, it is hard to give Ash more lines in ME3 because umm.. she will not have anything interesting to say given her character. Unless they try to show how she freaks over Legion... .. .

[CptData]

@ hangman: Liara gets some fantastique scenes in the game - even if not romanced, her scenes do have a romantic touch.

And yeah, I concur: some of those scenes should have been dedicated to Shepard's LI - not Liara and not just Ashley. Support after Thessia for Liara is fine to me, but it also killed Shepard to see that world burning. Where's his/her support? Where's the LI supporting Shepard?

Just some of many questions.
It's not Liara who's "stealing" scenes which should have been done by Shepard's LI. It's simply a story telling fault.

(And yeah - that's a "I defend Liara too" posting)


@ashman

You left her on Virmire in every single playthrough, right?

Modifié par CptData, 11 avril 2012 - 01:01 .

[Aurora313]

Hate Liara for being such a camera/spot-light wh*re. Let Ash do something for once, not just randomly change places in the lounge and say 'Good to see you' in that light tone that makes me hate her (specially after THessia.) Shepard needed a goddamned hug damn it! And Ash didn't have that option.

Hell, I didn't want words. I just wanted Shepard to look so beat up and Ash just stands up and gives him a hug, no words, just actions and maybe there's a scene where he's lying down with his head on her lap while Ash's strokes his face gently before the call from the Asari councilor comes in.

Modifié par Aurora313, 11 avril 2012 - 01:24 .

[hangmans tree]

Its not that I dont like Liara chracter (I really do like her), its that it was a choice made for me. I was excited during every little bit I got with Liara and the bond betweex Shep and her, but it would be more fiting to do the same, at the least, for characters which actually shared more intimate felings with PC.

It was great with Vakarian, 'coz I liked Garrus that much, now imagine some do not like Vakarian that much, didnt take 'im on missions and all that, even failed to get him killed in ME2... and they are stuck with scenes fraternising both characters to no end.

This is my main gripe with the whole thing, illusion of choice in this matter is a cover-up. The choices was made regardeless of your past convos and actions. I think. And the way you carry Ash picking her broken body (depending if or not romanced erlier) on Mars is just a gimmick in the light of things.

I begin to analyze ME3, the more time passes after the hype the more hard facts sink in to disillusion its façade. I greatly enjoyed the game, but... yeah, but.

[JamesS.]

I agree! I romanced Kaidan and he like Ashley didn't get as many dialogues while Liara got all the attention and that's not fair to straight female players either, not everyone loves Liara as a Li!

[Andronic0s]

Liara didn't stole anything, what most likely happened is that because Ashley is a VS she is sharing resources with Kaidan, i'm guessing bioware was unwilling to devote a full set of lines to a character that you might not even have in the game and splitted the dialogue of a full fledged party member in two between them

[CptData]

hangman's right here: the illusion of choice kinda gets destroyed in ME3. Not just for the romances (but there it's most obvious), but in the generic picture as well (endings!!!).

Currently, it's obvious Liara's meant to be the "primary romance". I don't mind the fact she got extra content. But what's the point of all other romances PLUS including new romances (Cortez, Allers, Traynor) if they're less well developed or even got sidelined (ME2!romances) in the game? Basically, only Liara gives emotional support to Shepard (and gets some from him/her). She acts like a lover or really close friend, even if not romanced, taking the spotlight that should have been focused on Shepard's LI.

So in short: Liara's plot works fine in case she's the romance. If not, Shepard's LI should take that plot. As I said before, it's not Liara's fault but a writer's issue. Either they were lazy, ran out of time or loved Liara so much they put her in every place where Shepard's LI should have been. Dunno what's the worst idea out of the three ...

[CptData]

Andronic0s wrote...

Liara didn't stole anything, what most likely happened is that because Ashley is a VS she is sharing resources with Kaidan, i'm guessing bioware was unwilling to devote a full set of lines to a character that you might not even have in the game and splitted the dialogue of a full fledged party member in two between them

*cough*

Garrus

*cough*

[hangmans tree]

Not to forget Samara.
I t was a sad moment when I got so little of this character after I grew so fond of her. The monastery and the holo goodbye at the end was... lacking. Although it wasn't bad writing mind you, but lack of resources I guess. I hate when writers must cut short any NPC I like just to fit the budget. And with Samara, whoever wrote her, did a great job, making every sentence count. It felt like there was an Eternity waiting for me after each sentence lol

But still, insufficient developement time

Modifié par hangmans tree, 11 avril 2012 - 02:33 .

[Andronic0s]

CptData wrote...

Andronic0s wrote...

Liara didn't stole anything, what most likely happened is that because Ashley is a VS she is sharing resources with Kaidan, i'm guessing bioware was unwilling to devote a full set of lines to a character that you might not even have in the game and splitted the dialogue of a full fledged party member in two between them

*cough*

Garrus

*cough*

The diference is that Garrus is very easy to save in ME2, while either Kaidan or Ashley will be dead no matter what you do

hangmans tree wrote...

Not to forget Samara.
I t was a sad moment when I got so little of this character after I grew so fond of her. The monastery and the holo goodbye at the end was.. lacking. Although it wasnt bad writing mind you, but lack of resources I guess. I hate when writers must cut short any NPC I like just to fit the budget. And with Samara, whoever wrote her, did a great job, making every sentence cout. It felt like there was Eternity waiting for me after each sentence lol

But still, insufficient developement time

 

I agree with you about Samara , did you talked to her on the citadel? she has some nice lines there

I don't think the problem (in this case) was development time but money, they just didn't had the money to pay for more voice acting

Modifié par Andronic0s, 11 avril 2012 - 02:34 .

[JamesS.]

CptData wrote...

hangman's right here: the illusion of choice kinda gets destroyed in ME3. Not just for the romances (but there it's most obvious), but in the generic picture as well (endings!!!).

Currently, it's obvious Liara's meant to be the "primary romance". I don't mind the fact she got extra content. But what's the point of all other romances PLUS including new romances (Cortez, Allers, Traynor) if they're less well developed or even got sidelined (ME2!romances) in the game? Basically, only Liara gives emotional support to Shepard (and gets some from him/her). She acts like a lover or really close friend, even if not romanced, taking the spotlight that should have been focused on Shepard's LI.

So in short: Liara's plot works fine in case she's the romance. If not, Shepard's LI should take that plot. As I said before, it's not Liara's fault but a writer's issue. Either they were lazy, ran out of time or loved Liara so much they put her in every place where Shepard's LI should have been. Dunno what's the worst idea out of the three ...

Exactly! Liara was meant to be the "primary romance" and again that's not at all fair to straight female players either. In Me1 all the romances had equal amount of time and that's how it should have been in Me3.

[hangmans tree]

Andronic0s wrote...

CptData wrote...

Andronic0s wrote...

Liara didn't stole anything, what most likely happened is that because Ashley is a VS she is sharing resources with Kaidan, i'm guessing bioware was unwilling to devote a full set of lines to a character that you might not even have in the game and splitted the dialogue of a full fledged party member in two between them

*cough*

Garrus

*cough*

The diference is that Garrus is very easy to save in ME2, while either Kaidan or Ashley will be dead no matter what you do

You do have a point. On the other side whats with the idea of introducing new LI's... just for the sake of shaggin? Its obvious you wont have enough time to do more with a new NPC beside a fling. So why not focus on existing possibilities?

[CptData]

Andronic0s wrote...

CptData wrote...

Andronic0s wrote...

Liara didn't stole anything, what most likely happened is that because Ashley is a VS she is sharing resources with Kaidan, i'm guessing bioware was unwilling to devote a full set of lines to a character that you might not even have in the game and splitted the dialogue of a full fledged party member in two between them

*cough*

Garrus

*cough*

The diference is that Garrus is very easy to save in ME2, while either Kaidan or Ashley will be dead no matter what you do

And still the my fact is a real one: Garrus can be dead in ME3.
Tali can be killed in ME2 and ME3. She still has more lines for the rest of the game than Ashley or Kaidan in the second half. Including romance scenes.

Seriously: if the flashback vids give a hint how important the VS was for Shepard, why's that not displayed in the game? Why do both characters have more lines in the first half of the game (when they're not on board) than in the second half?

Sure, I know, it's all about economics. However, for the VS I got the idea BW simply ran out of time. The fact they started including the romances November '11 supports this assumption as well. The VS got the shortest end of the stick of the "permanent squadmates" and if you substract the romance scenes, they don't have ANY purpose anymore.

They're a goddamn plot device.

Sorry, I feel as bad as Miranda, Thane, Jacob or Jack fans when it comes to VS treatment. Because the only difference to the named characters is: you can recruit the VS to be part of the crew. Substract that and Ash/Kaidan got the same treatment as those four. Plus a long sex scene.

*rant end*

Modifié par CptData, 11 avril 2012 - 02:40 .

[speedy111280]

Ashley was simply poorly written in ME3 IMO. I've always preferred her over Kaidan so she was saved on Virmire in almost all my saves but even for me (who's Shep's all romanced Liara) her usage in 3 was horrible, I actually prefer Kaidan's storyline in ME3 which I never thought I'd do. So I don't think it really has to do with how involved in the story the writers made Liara (which was obviously done because she was the only person guaranteed to still be alive in ME3), Kaidan seems to be far more involved with the story and the crew and has a more comfortable relationship with Shepard than Ash (to me they should be the same) and I can't decide if that's because Kaidan got more written for him due to being opened up for the SS romance or if the writers have just lost touch with Ashley for anything other than her talking about her family and being drunk. It just felt odd to me that Steve, James and Samantha felt closer to my Shepard at the end than Ashley did and I talked to all of them the same amount. I can only imagine how off it would feel with a Shepard in a romance with her or had a previous romance with her.

[hangmans tree]

Andronic0s wrote...
I agree with you about Samara , did you talked to her on the citadel? she has some nice lines there

I don't think the problem (in this case) was development time but money, they just didn't had the money to pay for more voice acting

DAMMIT, NO! I DIDNT! When and where do you see her on Citadel? Is it time sensitive? Like, after some mission she gone? Coz sometimes I did 2-3 in a succesion before returning to Citadel.

They put that email thing in my cabin so they should ****ing use it! I expect a not from Samara to 'come see me at the Presidium or something'... Especially after thessia.
I so much weanted to empathise with every major and minor Asari NPC after reapers burned Thessia.

Plus, I wanted and expected a hell to pour down Leng's eyeshields after that. Smash his bones and ripp implants with indisclosured rage and extreme prejudice.

[CptData]

speedy111280 wrote...

Ashley was simply poorly written in ME3 IMO. I've always preferred her over Kaidan so she was saved on Virmire in almost all my saves but even for me (who's Shep's all romanced Liara) her usage in 3 was horrible, I actually prefer Kaidan's storyline in ME3 which I never thought I'd do. So I don't think it really has to do with how involved in the story the writers made Liara (which was obviously done because she was the only person guaranteed to still be alive in ME3), Kaidan seems to be far more involved with the story and the crew and has a more comfortable relationship with Shepard than Ash (to me they should be the same) and I can't decide if that's because Kaidan got more written for him due to being opened up for the SS romance or if the writers have just lost touch with Ashley for anything other than her talking about her family and being drunk. It just felt odd to me that Steve, James and Samantha felt closer to my Shepard at the end than Ashley did and I talked to all of them the same amount. I can only imagine how off it would feel with a Shepard in a romance with her or had a previous romance with her.

That.

They lost touch with Ashley. She feels hollow - her romance scenes are well done, but ME3 doesn't give a chance to get any attachment to Ash. Without the romance in ME1, Ashley would feel entirely hollow in ME3 since she offers nothing than cold generic lines and statements. Without the attachment from ME1, I wouldn't romance her - she's lacking everything that made me falling for her in ME1.

Meh.

That's one of the reasons why I can't replay ME3. I stuck somewhere after the Palaven mission with my second playthrough and ... no. No attachement. And given the fact the endings aren't satisfying (but saddening), I don't know why I should spend time on that second playthrough.

Modifié par CptData, 11 avril 2012 - 02:48 .

[hangmans tree]

My sentiment's exactly the same... I have... no... urge to play it again.

[ashwind]

CptData wrote...
@ashman
ou left her on Virmire in every single playthrough, right?

No, actually I kept her more than Kaiden. I actually like her dying heroically more... at least I remember the best of her...

VS were boring enough in ME1, then ME2 did such a great job with character building.

After ME2, I simply couldnt be bothered with the VS anymore. I didnt care about Liara much in ME2 as well.... all that changed with LotSB.

I think the writer likes Liara best as well, tis clearly favoritism. Tis hard to write lines for characters you do not care for.

[speedy111280]

CptData wrote...

That.

They lost touch with Ashley. She feels hollow - her romance scenes are well done, but ME3 doesn't give a chance to get any attachment to Ash. Without the romance in ME1, Ashley would feel entirely hollow in ME3 since she offers nothing than cold generic lines and statements. Without the attachment from ME1, I wouldn't romance her - she's lacking everything that made me falling for her in ME1.

Meh.

That's one of the reasons why I can't replay ME3. I stuck somewhere after the Palaven mission with my second playthrough and ... no. No attachement. And given the fact the endings aren't satisfying (but saddening), I don't know why I should spend time on that second playthrough.

I can sympathize, I hate that Ashley is so poorly used in ME3 because in my headcanon she's always been my Shep's best friend, essentially the sister she never had, which is why my FemShep's never held the Horizon encounter against her. I was expecting to get more of the moments like we got in ME1 with Ash, but the only moments where I felt that connection were the scenes where Shep is teasing Ash, especially the drunk scene. The rest of her conversations made it feel like Ashley didn't have anything she felt she could trust Shepard with except for her sisters husband dying. Even during their hangout on the Citadel it felt like their connection was missing. I'm glad the writers finally made me like Kaidan and that all the other people on the ship had such great moments but I hate that it seems to be at the expense of Ashley. Everyone on the Normandy appears to have been better written than Ash which makes me sad since there are a lot of characters on my hard drive with Ashley as their best friend and their ME3 experience is going to suck unless I re-run them through 1 & 2 with Kaidan being alive.

[CptData]

ashwind wrote...

CptData wrote...
@ashman
ou left her on Virmire in every single playthrough, right? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

No, actually I kept her more than Kaiden. I actually like her dying heroically more... at least I remember the best of her...

VS were boring enough in ME1, then ME2 did such a great job with character building.

After
ME2, I simply couldnt be bothered with the VS anymore. I didnt care
about Liara much in ME2 as well.... all that changed with LotSB.

I think the writer likes Liara best as well, tis clearly favoritism. Tis hard to write lines for characters you do not care for.

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Then I wonder why they sidelined and discarded ME2 characters (yeah, I know, economical reasons), ashwind ...

Meh. Seriously, I guess it's better to send the VS off the ship for 25 War Assets. In that case you just miss 20 or 30 lines of interesting dialogue or so and don't get the image the VS was just a poorly implemented DLC character ... sad as it is.

For one who never romanced Liara since she's not my type, that's a hard one ... any romance I was interested in or found interesting enough to spend a playthrough on got either sidelined or reduced in a way it's no longer enjoyable.

Modifié par CptData, 11 avril 2012 - 03:10 .

[ashwind]

CptData wrote...
Then I wonder why they sidelined and discarded ME2 characters (yeah, I know, economical reasons), 

Meh. Seriously, I guess it's better to send the VS off the ship for 25 War Assets. In that case you just miss 20 or 30 lines of interesting dialogue or so and don't get the image the VS was just a poorly implemented DLC character ... sad as it is.

For one who never romanced Liara since she's not my type, that's a hard one ... any romance I was interested in or found interesting enough to spend a playthrough on got either sidelined or reduced in a way it's no longer enjoyable.

I think Legion, Mordin and Thane were done very well... very emotional, very powerful. (not as LI but as characters)

Best romance throughout the series I suppose would be Liara & Tali. (male perspective)

[CptData]

Yeah, but Tali got sidelined for 70% of the game. As soon as she's back she's really enjoyable, but you have to swallow the fact you don't have her around until last third of the game.

Not that fulfilling. Actually, only Liara's romance is perfect.
She's just not my type. And romancing her for the romance's sake is not what I do. So what now? Guess I should do it like others: romance Ash in ME1, virmire her. Romance Miranda in ME2 and get her killed in the SM. Stay single in ME3, knowing there won't be a love for Shepard since he's going to die in the end.

Yup. ME3 is depressing in more than one way.