209 réponses à ce sujet

[Drake-Shepard]

his trolling. he was arguing against indoc earlier lol

[GnusmasTHX]

Drake-Shepard wrote...

his trolling. he was arguing against indoc earlier lol

And I'm not now?

[balance5050]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

The IM was not indoctrinated before ME2, just played through that game and all the dialogue and mission reports that he has clearly states that he wanted to fight the reapers at first. So indoctrination happened between ME2 and ME3, which is why there is a sudden change in his beliefs that controling them is the best option.

Too bad he first came into contact with Reaper tech years ago in the first contact war, that's where he got his eyes from, reaper tech. Also, too bad no one actually knows they've been indoctrinated untill it's too late.

Too bad the thessia VI says that there was a splinter group who sabotaged the crucible in the previous cycle because they thought they could 'control' the reapers, this splinter group was found to be indoctrinated.

[Drake-Shepard]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Drake-Shepard wrote...

his trolling. he was arguing against indoc earlier lol

And I'm not now?

didnt see the last post which confirmed your sarcasm for everyone else

[Apollo-XL5]

balance5050 wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

The IM was not indoctrinated before ME2, just played through that game and all the dialogue and mission reports that he has clearly states that he wanted to fight the reapers at first. So indoctrination happened between ME2 and ME3, which is why there is a sudden change in his beliefs that controling them is the best option.

Too bad he first came into contact with Reaper tech years ago in the first contact war, that's where he got his eyes from, reaper tech. Also, too bad no one actually knows they've been indoctrinated untill it's too late.

Too bad the thessia VI says that there was a splinter group who sabotaged the crucible in the previous cycle because they thought they could 'control' the reapers, this splinter group was found to be indoctrinated.

Well said, I havent read any of the books.  But still his wanting to fight the reapers (using Krogan, geth etc) to then wanting to control them was a very quick change of tactics.  I thought that his indoc would have happened after cerberus recovered the remains of the human reaper.

[GnusmasTHX]

They impose as little will on important agents as possible. Indoctrination lobotomizes people.

[jijeebo]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Benezia, Shiala, Saren, TIM, Rana Thanoptis, crazy Salerians on Virmire and, Hanar diplomat are all first had examples of those who are fighting/were indoctrination. How many are still alive? How many shot themselves?

By the time someone is fighting indoctrination it is already too late and the only example of someone keeping sane in the fight is Shiala and that is only thanks to the Thorian.

The question is, can Shepard fight it off long enough to save the Galaxy?

No. 

Well arent you a glass half full kinda person

Well what did you expect? He wakes up, eludes enemies forces, runs into the Beam, takes the magic elevator up and shoot s the thingum all the while trying not to shoot HIMSELF in the face?

Harbinger: Stop shooting yourself, stop shooting yourself, stop shooting yourself, stop shooting yourself.

*bang*

Harbinger: THIS HURTS YOU

[IronSabbath88]

Haters gonna hate.

[Drake-Shepard]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They impose as little will on important agents as possible. Indoctrination lobotomizes people.

isn;t this an argument for IT theory. why shepards indoctrination is different from other cases.
Ie. Saren kept saying his not indoctrinated, his studied the effects, it can't be it. But then realised it was just done differently because sovereign needed him functioning

Modifié par Drake-Shepard, 11 avril 2012 - 05:03 .

[GnusmasTHX]

Drake-Shepard wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They impose as little will on important agents as possible. Indoctrination lobotomizes people.

isn;t this an argument for IT theory. why shepards indoctrination is different from other cases.
Ie. Saren kept saying his not indoctrinated, his studied the effects, it can't be it. But then realised it was just down differently because sovereign needed him functioning

It's a fact, not an argument. Well, a little hyperbolic, but whatever.

[Apollo-XL5]

well with Boiware not confirming or denying IT, that leaves it pretty much in play in the EC DLC.

[eddieoctane]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Genuine Question:

So, um, what happens if you choose control or synthesis according to IT?

... Surely Shepard would still wake up on Earth, even if he was now indoctrinated. It would be hella pointless indoctrinating Shepard just to control his dream whilst he lies unconscious in the ruins of London.

What happens is you create a massive s**tstorm where all the once-happy fans who liked their green/blue ending suddenly get told "Hah, you fell for it"

So yeah, not going to happen. 

Doesn't mean they can't still wake up. If the final outcome after Shep wakes up was different in some form depending on what you choose, they would have anything to **** about. Examples:
Red/destroy-Shepard quietly retires with LI knowing the threat is dealt with, though the galaxy will still need decades, centuries to truly recover. A.K.A. "sunshine and rainbows" ending.

Blue/control-In Shepard's final moment, (post waking up on Earth and taking the fight to Harbinger) he feels himself succumbing to indoctrination. Shepard begins to lose control over his body, and tells his squad-mates to shoot him before he does something to give the Reapers victory. As Shep bleeds out (head resting on LI's lap if you have on) another squad-mate or Anderson sets off the crucible. Shep watches the Reapers go down before he closes his eyes and dies. It seems like people want him to die, so here is your option to kill off the hero.

Green/synthesis-Shep lives. Following the apparent destruction of all Reaper tech, and some sort of cut-scene imply indoctrination should be gone forever, Shep walks over to Harbinger's corpse, having fallen into Buckingham Palace. He picks up a fragment of Harbinger, something curiously intact looking. Tosses it into the air and catches it, like you would with a baseball. Shep turns and walks away, object in hand. Camera zooms to his eye, similar to TIM's, but green.

[Galifreya]

rachellouise wrote...

Gallifreya wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Gallifreya wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Gallifreya wrote...
The Reapers KNOW Shepard is aware of Indoctrination. TIM was also aware of Indoctrination. They know Shepard is on to them. If s/he suddenly started experiencing pink unicorns and actually felt like s/he was being indoctrinated, the jig would've been up. Shepard would've let someone know, and the Reapers' plan would fail.

Stop focussing so much on the codex entry, and try to think outside the text box. Shepard is DIFFERENT. Special. Thus, her indoctrination process is extremely different as well.

You've probably seen it in some sitcom or another: Pretty wife needs to let chubby husband think cleaning was HIS idea, or he'd never do it.

It had to be Shepard's choice/idea. Or Shepard, the character, would not let it happen.

If you have to ignore the lore to believe the theory then something is obviously wrong with it.

Indoctrination is subliminal signals that permanently change brain functions. Even if you know its happenng, there's nothing you can do to stop it. If Shepard becomes aware of the indoctrination, then the only way to avoid further indoctrination is to stay as far away from Reapers as possible, which is a desireable outcome for the Reapers. If Shepard becomes indoctrinated, then the Reapers have a useful servant. If he becomes aware of it, he must stay away from them and so they don't need to fear him as much. If he tells people he is becoming indoctrinated, they'll be slower to trust him and the Reapers win again.

They don't need to be sneaky about it.

The Reapers want to control Shepard because they have "taken an interest." Harbinger himself has the opportunity to kill Shepard in Arrival. Yet he doesn't. They "need Shepard alive." Why? What for? If it's better for them if Shepard is dead, why?

I'm not the one ignoring the lore, here.

And yet when the guy they've been hunting for finally arrives on Earth and is right in front of Harbinger - the perfect opprtunity to capture him and fully indoctrinate him - they can offer you only one choice, and that choice is designed to allow Shepard to break free of indoctrination. Why offer that choice at all - and why sometimes make it the only choice - if they are not only very keen on capturing Shepard, but also when Shepard has pretty much been handed ot them?

And that doesn't change the fact that the theory ignores a large amount of the lore surrounding indoctrination. Me not mentioning the Reaper interest in Shepard doesn't make the theory more right. its just an attempt to dodge the issue.

Because when they offer Destroy as the only choice, it means your Shepard did not do everything in his/her power to stop the Reapers. They don't believe you're worthy. Chances are, if you are a player who only got the Destroy option, your Shepard simply turns into a husk. Why do the Reapers want to control a slackass Shepard? Simple. They don't.

And I have already explained to you why Shepard's indoctrination had to be different - because Shepard is different. And she did hallucinate. IT states that the child is a hallucination the entire time.

And I have already explained to you why Shepard's indoctrination had to be different - because Shepard is different. And she did hallucinate. IT states that the child is a hallucination the entire time. 

so you're using the IT to support the IT? :/

No. I'm saying if IT is TRUE. This is an IF. The child would be the hallucination.

[GnusmasTHX]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

well with Boiware not confirming or denying IT, that leaves it pretty much in play in the EC DLC.

Sure, they didn't deny it. They only said they were doing something else.

[Apollo-XL5]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

well with Boiware not confirming or denying IT, that leaves it pretty much in play in the EC DLC.

Sure, they didn't deny it. They only said they were doing something else.

All their twitter talk says wait and see.

[Galifreya]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Lyrebon wrote...

But remember how Saren thought he wasn't indoctrinated, he just "agreed" with Sovereign? He said indoctrination can be a slow, subtle process, or a rapid but degenerative enslavement. It depended on the person the Reapers were dealing with and Saren was a high-ranking operative with close ties to the intergalactic council.

At the end Saren still thought what he was doing was of his own volition until Shepard pointed out he was being controlled, at which point he tries to resist and, ultimately, commits suicide. Saren was indoctrinated so subtley that even he thought he was still in control of himself.

The Reapers didn't really have to push a rapid indoctrination on Shepard until she almost completed her goals to destroy the them. They thought they could take control slowly but Shepard's will determined a different course of action.

IT isn't as convoluted and poorly thought as you might imagine.

But the player would still see the symptoms of indoctrination, even if Shepard isn't aware of it.

No. Because the player is supposed to be Shepard. That's the mindset everyone (or at least most) people go into these games with. YOU are Shepard. This is YOUR Shepard. If they gave it away to the player, how could Shepard not notice anything? This logic is silly.

[GnusmasTHX]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

well with Boiware not confirming or denying IT, that leaves it pretty much in play in the EC DLC.

Sure, they didn't deny it. They only said they were doing something else.

All their twitter talk says wait and see.

Read the thread, not twitter.

[Apollo-XL5]

Gallifreya wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Lyrebon wrote...

But remember how Saren thought he wasn't indoctrinated, he just "agreed" with Sovereign? He said indoctrination can be a slow, subtle process, or a rapid but degenerative enslavement. It depended on the person the Reapers were dealing with and Saren was a high-ranking operative with close ties to the intergalactic council.

At the end Saren still thought what he was doing was of his own volition until Shepard pointed out he was being controlled, at which point he tries to resist and, ultimately, commits suicide. Saren was indoctrinated so subtley that even he thought he was still in control of himself.

The Reapers didn't really have to push a rapid indoctrination on Shepard until she almost completed her goals to destroy the them. They thought they could take control slowly but Shepard's will determined a different course of action.

IT isn't as convoluted and poorly thought as you might imagine.

But the player would still see the symptoms of indoctrination, even if Shepard isn't aware of it.

No. Because the player is supposed to be Shepard. That's the mindset everyone (or at least most) people go into these games with. YOU are Shepard. This is YOUR Shepard. If they gave it away to the player, how could Shepard not notice anything? This logic is silly.

Exactly, thats why I laughed when I found out that I was infact indoctrinated after picking Control first time I completed it.

[Drake-Shepard]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

well with Boiware not confirming or denying IT, that leaves it pretty much in play in the EC DLC.

Sure, they didn't deny it. They only said they were doing something else.

All their twitter talk says wait and see.

As much as i like IT and think its the most credible....
They kept saying wait and see..and then they released multiplayer dlc....so thats what i was waiting for..

[Apollo-XL5]

Drake-Shepard wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

well with Boiware not confirming or denying IT, that leaves it pretty much in play in the EC DLC.

Sure, they didn't deny it. They only said they were doing something else.

All their twitter talk says wait and see.

As much as i like IT and think its the most credible....
They kept saying wait and see..and then they released multiplayer dlc....so thats what i was waiting for..

their releasing MP DLC to pass the time until the EC DLC is ready, plus I am thankful for the MP dlc, since I have got bored fighting in the same maps for the last month.

[GnusmasTHX]

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

Drake-Shepard wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Apollo-XL5 wrote...

well with Boiware not confirming or denying IT, that leaves it pretty much in play in the EC DLC.

Sure, they didn't deny it. They only said they were doing something else.

All their twitter talk says wait and see.

As much as i like IT and think its the most credible....
They kept saying wait and see..and then they released multiplayer dlc....so thats what i was waiting for..

their releasing MP DLC to pass the time until the EC DLC is ready, plus I am thankful for the MP dlc, since I have got bored fighting in the same maps for the last month.

Which is further evidence IT wasn't planned. Working on TWO DLC's instead of your ending, lol? Either that or they arbitrarily decided a couple months was a good time to sit in their own crap while the fanbase goes mad, and they had it done the whole time.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 11 avril 2012 - 05:17 .

[Apollo-XL5]

Remember the saying....

Good things come to those who wait!

I am currently on my 4TH play of Mass effect 3 right now, and keep noticing all the IT hints.

[StElmo]

I think after reading this thread, I am not convinced to disown IT. It is still the most logical solution presented so far for the plot holes.

[Apollo-XL5]

StElmo wrote...

I think after reading this thread, I am not convinced to disown IT. It is still the most logical solution presented so far for the plot holes.

let me tell you something, dont, dont let them dissuade you, dont let them bully you, dont let them do anything that changes your mind, because while you still believe.....there is HOPE!
(that would sound great coming from the shatner)


Plus most people are just p***ed because their theory for new endings was shot down, but ours hasnt been.

Modifié par Apollo-XL5, 11 avril 2012 - 05:22 .

[GnusmasTHX]

StElmo wrote...

I think after reading this thread, I am not convinced to disown IT. It is still the most logical solution presented so far for the plot holes.

No it isn't. The most logical conclusion is that they botched the ending, and that they're going to release DLC to address it. Just like they said they will.

 An official press release went out today announcing how we are re-prioritizing the Mass Effect 3 post release content schedule to provide a more fleshed out experience for our fans. For many of you the "Extended Cut" will help answer some questions and give closure to this chapter of the Mass Effect story. Oh and it's at no cost to you - the fan.

Here is a mini FAQ to help you understand what the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut is and isn't:

What can fans expect from the Extended Cut DLC?
For fans who want more closure in Mass Effect 3, the DLC will offer extended scenes that provide additional context and deeper insight to the conclusion of Commander Shepard's journey.


Are there going to be more/different endings or ending DLCs in the future?
No. BioWare strongly believes in the team's artistic vision for the end of this arc of the Mass Effect franchise. The extended cut DLC will expand on the existing endings, but no further ending DLC is planned.


What is BioWare adding to the ending with the Extended Cut DLC?
BioWare will expanding on the ending to Mass Effect 3 by creating additional cinematics and epilogue scenes to the existing ending sequences. The goal of these new scenes is to provide additional clarity and closure to Mass Effect 3.


When will the Extended Cut DLC be available?
Currently the Extended Cut DLC is planned for this summer, no specific date has been announced at this point.


Why are you releasing the Extended Cut DLC?
Though we remain committed and are proud of the artistic choices we made in the main game, we are aware that there are some fans who would like more closure to Mass Effect 3. The goal of the DLC is not to provide a new ending to the game, rather to offer fans additional context and answers to the end of Commander Shepard's story.


So there you have it. Are we proud of the game we made and the team that made it? Hell yes. Are we going to change the ending of the game? No. Do we appreciate the passion and listen to the feedback delivered to us by our fans? Very much so and we are responding.

Be good to each other and Summer is coming... 

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 11 avril 2012 - 05:23 .